Looking for a cheaper SLR..

[ejoech]

With the holidays coming up, I thought I might buy my girlfriend an SLR camera. I don't really know what to get her. I searched on these forums and found a couple of kits for new cameras which is great for me because i wouldn't know what lense to get. However, I was thinking of maybe buying her a used, metal camera. I just wouldn't know what type of lense to buy with it. I'm on a tight budget and can only spend a few hundred...

So basically what I need is someone to point me in the right direction with a model number for a nice heavy metal camera and lense(s). Also, is there any difference other than quality of the body itself between the older cameras and new ones?

I know my post doesn't make 100% sense but it's almost 3am and I'm dead tired.

Any help is appreciated. Thank you!

Sage

[another view]

Welcome. I felt that this post should be in the Help forum so that's why it's been moved here.

There are a lot of differences between metal mostly-mechanical cameras and electronic autofocus cameras, but it basically amounts to personal preference. Some cameras like this are still made today, and they're a valid choice if sticking with film. Or as a reason to stick with film (not digital).

Two things to keep in mind with older 35mm SLR systems: You'll have limited or no compatibility with current systems, and have to make sure that they're working properly to avoid expensive repairs. These aren't necessarily bad points - there are great bargains in older cameras and lenses because of this (on ebay, but know what you're buying) and if they work properly they may do so for a lifetime. I miss the Nikon FE that I sold a couple of years ago and been looking for an excuse to replace it (that, and money ).

With Nikon, you'll get the same physical lens mount that's currently used - it's never changed. Using older manual focus lenses with newer cameras usually means that they won't meter at all unless it's a professional camera. The AI series lenses are bargains and the difference between them and AIS won't matter with most cameras. These bodies would be good to look at: FM2, FM2n, FM, FE, FE2, F3. For a few hundred you could build a really nice system, just keep in mind that you would probably replace most or all of it with a newer camera.

I'll let someone else cover other brands, and check previous threads - this comes up a lot.

[Clemmie]

Steve has covered Nikon for you. I'll tackle Minolta here. You can expect to hear from Canon and Pentax supporters as well. With a budget of about $250, let's say, all of these brands offer NEW starter kits - and all but Canon offer a choice of traditional heavy-metal manual focus vs. modern plastic autofocus at this price level.

Personally, I would go with the newer autofocus models. Sure, the bodies are plastic - but the lighter weight can be a blessing. Also, the lenses will be much more compatible with newer systems in the future - whereas the older manual focus designs are already past a dead end. The autofocus cameras will allow for full manual settings, when desired for creative control - or choosing the automation for 'point and shoot' simplicity.

All the prices I'll quote here are online pricing from B&H in New York. Not sure how their store pricing compares - but one advantage to living on Long Island is that all the big camera sellers are just a short drive away from you.

In traditional, heavy-metal, manual focus - Minolta has the X-370s, with a 35-70 lens which is one of Minolta's best ever. $224.95 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=188380&is=USA

In modern, plastic body, auto focus - Minolta has a few choices within the $250 limit -

The Maxxum 50 with QD back, and the 28-100 lens (which is what I use as 'base lens' on my Maxxum 7 - it's pretty good). $164.95 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=319854&is=USA

The somewhat nicer Maxxum 70, with QD back and the 28-100 lens. $209.95 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=319864&is=USA

The one I will most strongly recommend, however, is one currently 'on sale'. The Maxxum 5, with their excellent 28-80 lens. $199.95 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=260110&is=USA

And of course, you'll want to pick up some film for her to try it out with, too. B&H also carries Konica-Minolta VX film at a good price.

Be sure to let us know what you decide on - and hit us with any questions you may have in narrowing down the field of candidates.

And if you decide to make the lady a new Minolta owner, I can supply you with a list of excellent Minolta Online Groups as well.

[ejoech]

Thank you. I wasn't expecting two great posts like that so quick!

Basically my dilemma right now is to go manual or auto. I didn't know they still made the heavy manuals new, so that helps so I can just get a kit. I know a lot of people like the feel of the solid camera. I'm going to try to bring up cameras to her today without being too obvious and see what she says. Any ideas? heh.

My gut tells me to get an auto..easier, built in flash, seems to be more features..but we'll see what she says.

I checked out the Minoltas and Nikons. Very nice, thank you.

And yes, B&H would be nice so at least I can go there and handle the camera. Although I could maybe just find an even more local store to handle the camera, then buy it cheaper online elsewhere. Anyway, I appreciate the heads up on that.

Thank you very much, keep them coming!

[another view]

If you do go to B&H, look at the Nikon FM3a. It's probably out of your price range but the newest of the FE/FM series - actually introduced about a year and a half ago so there's still interest in these cameras. The original FE (with an auto mode and electronic shutter) and FM (all manual/mechanical) were introduced in the late 70's and the others are updates on the basic design.

The feel of it will be about the same as all of the other FE and FM series cameras but the F3 will be bigger and heavier. The used market for the F3's is very low; they were very expensive new. B&H might still have a new one but don't be put off by the price.

[Clemmie]

Yeah - we're quick around here. Part of being helpful is delivering help in a timely manner.

Go with your 'gut' (and mine too, for that matter) and get something Auto.

The trend these days, is for a Film shooter to move up to a Digital SLR at some point. If you start out with an autofocus system, then that future move can be made by simply buying a DSLR body (of the same brand - such as Minolta's 7D, Nikon's D70 or D100, etc.), mounting one of your lenses, and keep on shooting. Whereas, if you go with the older-design manual focus startup, then you have to replace all the lenses as well when making the jump to digital - which can add greatly to the expense.

[ejoech]

Wow. Very quick indeed.

Another view: I seriously wish I could afford a camera such as that. I'm not trying to be cheap - I'd buy her the world if I could, I just simply can't afford anything more. :/

If it was me, I'd go with the auto. But it's for her, and something tells me she might like the traditional manual focus. For example, she hates my digital camera and says she will never go digital. Also loves the dark room.

I really need to figure out a way to see what she likes without being too obvious.

Thanks for all the help!

Sage

[another view]

Another view: I seriously wish I could afford a camera such as that. I'm not trying to be cheap - I'd buy her the world if I could, I just simply can't afford anything more.

An FE body (which has an aperture-priority automatic mode) with a 50mm f1.8 AI could probably be found for under $150 in pretty good shape. By "pretty good" I mean good for a photographer, but not a museum piece. It might have a couple of scratches and some "brassing" which is where the metal plating wears off in some spots.

[ejoech]

After doing a little bit of research, I think I like this one the best.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=284408&is=USA

Can anyone please give me their opinion on this kit?

I might have trouble affording it, but the rebate helps. I'm going to look and see if I can get it cheaper some place else.

Thanks.

[ejoech]

or perhaps a cheaper alternative, although I like the Nikon better..

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=313631&is=REG

What makes the Nikon N75 cost more then this canon?

[magoo]

also, I know it is off topic but you can also find manual tlr mf cameras pretty cheap on ebay and @ keh. one of my mf cameras is a mamiya c33. it is pretty much the same thing as a c330 exept it's cheaper, older and has less bells and whistles. I have taken some beautiful pictures on print and chrome film on it. To me there is nothing more beautiful than a mf chrome on a light table. also I use on occasion an older canon ae1 that my parents nolonger wanted. they moved to digital and didn't need it anymore. I saved it from going to the landfill. you can find fd lenses pretty cheap @ keh and on ebay.

[Franglais]

Now of course I don't know your girlfriend and this is none of my business anyway but when I read "I thought I might buy my girlfriend .. a nice heavy metal camera and lense(s)" I just wonder if she might not prefer one of these dinky little digital cameras that everyone seems to be buying for Christmas.

Just last week I was at a party at a friends place and she showed me her SLR, lenses and flashgun that she hasn't used for two years because they're too big and heavy. She was snapping everyone with a little Sony thing and delightedly showing them the results

Charles

[ejoech]

Now of course I don't know your girlfriend and this is none of my business anyway but when I read "I thought I might buy my girlfriend .. a nice heavy metal camera and lense(s)" I just wonder if she might not prefer one of these dinky little digital cameras that everyone seems to be buying for Christmas.

Just last week I was at a party at a friends place and she showed me her SLR, lenses and flashgun that she hasn't used for two years because they're too big and heavy. She was snapping everyone with a little Sony thing and delightedly showing them the results

Charles

Usually that would be the case, but, not with my girlfriend...she hates digital and is definitely interested in an SLR..

Anyone have any comments on the Nikon N75? I like it a lot but I'm not sure if the cost is worth it considering the Canon is much cheaper.

[mjs1973]

Usually that would be the case, but, not with my girlfriend...she hates digital and is definitely interested in an SLR..

Anyone have any comments on the Nikon N75? I like it a lot but I'm not sure if the cost is worth it considering the Canon is much cheaper.

I'm kind of surprised that there hasn't been any people posting about Canon on your thread yet. I'm a Canon man myself and have no experiance with Nikon so I can't compair them for you, but I can say that I have been very happy with my Canons. I shoot with the D300 now but before that I had a Rebel G. I loved the camera, but I never ventured from the auto settings. The G took great pictures and it was very inexpensive. I think I paid about $300 for mine with 2 lenses 4 or 5 years ago. It has a manual mode so your girlfriend will be able to control the settings herself is she want's. I'm sure this is no big surprise, as most of them do now adays. I am also a big fan of the Canon choices of lenses and accesories, but again, this is a personal choice and I'm sure there are equally great lenses for the Nikon... It's a toss up, but if budget is a major issue, I would think the GII would be a great place to start.

Michael

[opus]

I don't have a Canon G nor have I ever held one, but I did talk to someone over an airline seat about theirs, once. ;)

I have the Rebel Ti. The G owner was a teenager, and she liked hers. I also put money towards a group wedding gift to buy the Rebel GII for someone, and later that year I saw him at his SIL's wedding, shooting up a storm. He said it's the best wedding gift they got. I believe "we" bought the camera at Wal-Mart. (I just gave money in an envelope to my friend, I didn't do the actual purchasing.)

I just have to say I love my Ti. Of course, now I'm committed to Canon, which is fine. My Ti was a great stepping stone to take me back into photography the way I once was in high school.

[Franglais]

Usually that would be the case, but, not with my girlfriend...she hates digital and is definitely interested in an SLR..

Anyone have any comments on the Nikon N75? I like it a lot but I'm not sure if the cost is worth it considering the Canon is much cheaper.

OK you know your girlfriend. And I also have a N75/F75 (and a F80 and a F100). Its a really capable little camera. It can do most of the things that the F100 can do, and it works just the same way. It just doesn't feel as good, especially with the kit lenses (28-80 & 28-100). The major shortcoming is the viewfinder which is rather small. I find I'm straining to see details whereas with the F100 they leap out at you.

I don't know the low-end Canon models but I imagine that it would be the same sort of story but more so.

Charles

[Dzerzhinski46]

I am not sure if you are looking for an older camera or not, but some of the older Canon models are actually quite good. My parents had an old Canon LtB (I know, a dinosaur ), which has been a great workhorse for about 15-20 years. I don't have any experience with other older Canons, but if my old LtB is any indication, then the rest of the line should be just as good. Canons are fairly cheap on Ebay, so you should have no problem there. B and H also has some of the Canon A and F series, fairly cheap. Just my 2 cents. Good luck!

Dzerzhinski

[ejoech]

Thank you for the responses, once again.

I think I've decided to go with a new camera, but thanks for the comments on the older ones.

I'm basically debating between the N75 and the GII. I own a Canon Powershot G2(digi) myself and I love it. Very fond of the Canon digitals, but I know that Nikon also makes great cameras. I'm in a real dilemma because I like the way the N75 looks, but it's also that much more expensive. I feel like I shouldn't be basing it upon looks, but oh well, there's my ignorance. I'm going to try to go to a local camera shop so I can feel them and see what feels better. Anyone one else have any other reasons to go with either the GII or the N75?

[mjs1973]

Thank you for the responses, once again.

I think I've decided to go with a new camera, but thanks for the comments on the older ones.

I'm basically debating between the N75 and the GII. I own a Canon Powershot G2(digi) myself and I love it. Very fond of the Canon digitals, but I know that Nikon also makes great cameras. I'm in a real dilemma because I like the way the N75 looks, but it's also that much more expensive. I feel like I shouldn't be basing it upon looks, but oh well, there's my ignorance. I'm going to try to go to a local camera shop so I can feel them and see what feels better. Anyone one else have any other reasons to go with either the GII or the N75?

I know you said this was for your girlfriend, so, have you asked her what she likes/wants? It shouldn't matter much what you think it looks like, or how it feels to you since you will not be the primary user. What feels great in your hands, may feel too big in a smaller, womans hand, and what feels small to you may be perfect for her. So, unless you are trying to surprise her, maybe you should discuss it with her before you pull the trigger. Pick her up and take her to the store and tell her to pick one out, and buy it for her on the spot, that will be a surprise. It's great that you're getting all these dif. opinions, but what it comes down to, is her. What is her vision like? There is a lot of information to be seen inside the viewfinder. Maybe she wont be able to see it in one of them. I know I had my G for a long time before I ever even knew there was an exposure meeter inside the view finder. Damn astigmatizm. I'm guessing that neither of these cameras have a dioptic adjuster to help bring that info into focus, so that is something else to think about. I'm a Canon man myself so I would like to steer you towards the GII.That being said, there are a ton of Nikon users here that would say go with the Nikon. After all that rambling what it all comes down to is what the user likes and dose the camera meet their needs.

[ejoech]

Yeah, I haven't really asked her what she likes/dislikes because I want it to be a total surprise. That's an idea though - to surprise her and bring her to the camera shop..maybe we can even get into the city to go to B&H. We do have similar tastes, and similar sized hands(i have girly hands) so hopefully I can pick out one she'd love..I don't know, still debating...

[92135011]

if you want only new camera, then you are limited by what is out there in the entry market right now. At this point you dont really need help from us then

What is important is that you figure out a budget and stick to it

[ejoech]

Yeah basically the only help I need is if anyone has any other reason to get the N75, or the GII, that an ignorant person like myself wouldn't see.

[opus]

I've heard the advice that when you pick out your camera, you should go with the system where the buttons and controls are in a place that makes sense to you, where you can find them without having to hunt around, and where they become second nature to you. There is apparently a difference between Canon and Nikon this way, and thus the differences in opinions of who likes what.

Does she have a camera right now that she uses? Maybe take a look at it, and see where the controls are on it, and then look for similarities in the new cameras.

[Clemmie]

Among the major camera brands, there is no great difference in actual Quality. And with little comparing, you'll see they all pretty well deliver the same features for the buck, particularly on the lower end of the line. Where they ARE different, among the manufacturers, and often within a manufacturers lineup, is Ergonomics - how the controls are laid out, and how it feels overall. That is the key that makes each of us ardent supporters of one brand or another - and it is a very personal preference.

That said, I really think your BEST solution, is to take the girlfriend along on a visit to B&H, and let her choose for herself.

You can easily preserve the 'surprise' factor until she has had a few cameras in hand. Just go to town on the premise of seeking a new camera for You. Once in the store, ask for her input - get her to handling cameras - and take note of her reactions and comments.

After she has seen several and declared a favorite or two - and this is especially true if you find her tastes are running on the expensive side - break the news that "We're actually here to get YOU a camera - within X budget. Merry Christmas!"

If, upon that announcement, She can maintain composure, give you a hug, and leave the store with a camera of her choosing......AND still love you days later.....THEN you've got a good woman. Set the wedding date, before she can get away - and snap happily everafter!

Keep us informed of progress........

[tijean]

You know, I've read through the thread, and through everyone's excellent advice, and I keep thinking of the Pentax ZX-10 that a very well meaning now-ex boyfriend got me for Christmas one year. There was no way for him to know that it would be, in so many way, completely contradictory to my shooting style. I tried very hard to like it, but in truth, hated it until the day a three foot fall put it out of it's (and my) misery. I missed quite a few photographic oppurtunities by having it, and not my good ol' K-1000, because I was trying to hard to make it my primary camera.

So I like the surprise her by taking her to the camera shop and, once you get there, telling her that you would hate to have gotten something that was less than perfect for her.