How often do you come with this saying.

[rzozaya1969]

In a ride I went today with several friends, I was talking with another guy that is a photographer (he had a DSLR on a mountain bike backpack! kinda crazy, that's what a small P&S is good for, not too much money if you go over the bars!). So we were chatting about stuff, and I was asking him if he knew where I could take some short courses in photography.

While we were talking about this, another rider just joins the chat and says that taking good photographs is something that you were either born with or not. That you can see on the camera how the photo will look and that's that.

I think that this remark is something pretty dumb and off the mark, since I think that anyone can learn to improve on his technique and creativity when one is open to learn new stuff and practice. While I think that there are some people that have a very developed creativity and can learn faster than most, I think that even the great guys practice a lot and are constanly searching for new techniques to improve their skills.

How often do you get this kind of remarks?

[another view]

I wouldn't worry about it - true some people have a gift, but that's true of anything. No two people see things the same way and is one person's way necessarily better than another's? The greatest photographers still shoot a ton of images, and it took a lot of images to get to the level that they're at.

But to answer your question, I don't know if I've ever heard anyone say that in relation to photography.

[Didache]

Like any art, some people will have more natural talent than others. But that isn't really the point. The thing with photography is to do the best you can - and that means that ANYONE can learn to take better photographs. Experience and knowledge can make virtually anyone better than they were. In any case, it is more about enjoying yourself than anything else.

Cheers
Mike

[mwfanelli]

In a ride I went today with several friends, I was talking with another guy that is a photographer (he had a DSLR on a mountain bike backpack! kinda crazy, that's what a small P&S is good for, not too much money if you go over the bars!). So we were chatting about stuff, and I was asking him if he knew where I could take some short courses in photography.

While we were talking about this, another rider just joins the chat and says that taking good photographs is something that you were either born with or not. That you can see on the camera how the photo will look and that's that.

I think that this remark is something pretty dumb and off the mark, since I think that anyone can learn to improve on his technique and creativity when one is open to learn new stuff and practice. While I think that there are some people that have a very developed creativity and can learn faster than most, I think that even the great guys practice a lot and are constanly searching for new techniques to improve their skills.

How often do you get this kind of remarks?

Anyone who puts the work in can become an excellent photographer. Those with natural gifts can always be better regradless of how much effort you put in. But is that important? If you aren't the next James Joyce, do you stop writing?

[rzozaya1969]

I understand that. I like taking pics, but I'm just learning, and I always feel that one can improve his/her skills if one decide to do it.

What are the most common popular misconceptions in photo? I mean, like '... my 8 Mp P&S camera must take better pics that your 6Mp DSLR?' ... 'you spent THAT only for a lens?'

[another view]

What are the most common popular misconceptions in photo?

How about "Hey, can you come take some pictures of ___? You have a better camera than I do so I know the pictures will be good." That usually means I'm busy...

[WesternGuy]

rzozaya1969 - one that I hear from time to time is "You are either creative or you are not", meaning perhaps (?) you are either born creative or you are not. I, for one, do not believe in that for a minute. I believe that you can learn to be creative - it is an evolutionary process - you can learn to think differently - you can learn to look at things differently - all of this is part of the development of one's creative spirit.

Maybe this will spark debate - don't know. Try Googling "creative thinking" and see what you get.

Cheers!

WesternGuy

[rzozaya1969]

rzozaya1969 - one that I hear from time to time is "You are either creative or you are not", meaning perhaps (?) you are either born creative or you are not. I, for one, do not believe in that for a minute. I believe that you can learn to be creative - it is an evolutionary process - you can learn to think differently - you can learn to look at things differently - all of this is part of the development of one's creative spirit.

Maybe this will spark debate - don't know. Try Googling "creative thinking" and see what you get.

Cheers!

WesternGuy

I think that was the more direct equivalent with what my non-photo friend said

It's nonsense, and I find that whenever we enter an unknown territory, meaning a new hobby, sport, whatever, although we might think that it's not easy, we don't know what we don't know.

[rzozaya1969]

Not to create a flame war or anything, but, what are the neverending debates in photography?

In mountain bike, you will always encounter a 'hardtail vs full suspension', 'v-brakes vs discs', and other stuff. What are the more recurring "wars" here?

Is it like 'digital vs film', 'point and shoot vs SLR/DSLR'?

[another view]

Not to create a flame war or anything, but, what are the neverending debates in photography?

You know how to make a moderator a little nervous!

Plenty of them in photography, just like anything. A few of them include digital vs. film, Canon vs. Nikon, "straight from the camera" vs. Photoshop, paper vs. plastic...

[WesternGuy]

I think that was the more direct equivalent with what my non-photo friend said

It's nonsense, and I find that whenever we enter an unknown territory, meaning a new hobby, sport, whatever, although we might think that it's not easy, we don't know what we don't know.

Without getting into a long an involved discussion, I hope you did not take my comments to mean what your non-photo friend said. It is not what I meant. What I meant was that I believe very strongly that you can learn to be creative and as you become more creative and learn what works for you and what doesn't, you will see your skills and understanding of the whole process increase. There will be less and less of not knowing what you don't know. Some people just have different starting points on the learning curve.

I would like to think I am a better photographer today than I was ten years ago because I make a concentrated effort to learn from my mistakes and to read articles and books of those who I look to as role models in this field.

I will be interested in your comments when you have read Learning to See Creatively (I understand you ordered it)

Cheers,

WesternGuy

[livin4lax09]

IS vs. non IS...ambient light v. strobes... etc. etc.

I disagree with the statement. YOu can develop a photographic eye. Some people can't, but it's not limited to whether you are born with it or not.

[WesternGuy]

IS vs. non IS...ambient light v. strobes... etc. etc.

I disagree with the statement. YOu can develop a photographic eye. Some people can't, but it's not limited to whether you are born with it or not.

can't or don't want to? Let's face it, not everyone is interested in photography, or is interested in it enough to learn what it is all about - technique, process, equipment, etc. These folks do not want to develop a photographic eye, nor are they interested in doing it. So, I guess we have a basic philosophic difference (?), because I believe you can if you really want to - develop a photographic eye that is.

WesternGuy

[websailor]

I haven't heard this about photography, but I'm around a bunch of top notch musicians who encounter similar comments....

At the high levels in their profession, the competition is fierce.

So here are my two cents from that arena - Some people are born with talent, good ears, coordination etc. People with talent who practice and work at it and do what it takes to improve, will always be better than those that don't. A person without born talent can sometimes work hard and diligently and become equal to and sometimes better than people born with talent. And sometimes no amount of work or effort will make them good enough musicians.

Equipment does make a difference.....but a very good musician will get a better sound out of a poor piece of equipment than an untalented musician...likewise an untalented musician with the best equipment is not necessarily better than a talented musician on an okay piece of equipment, Different people work better on different pieces of equipment...find the instrument that matches well with how you perform. Improving your equipment can improve your sound.

Lastly, if you love music, then play.... if you get enjoyment out of it, then that is a good enough reason to play.
.......
Guess you'd better make that 10 cents, not two.

[Greg McCary]

It's just like everything else in life, the more you put into it the more you get out. You can bet Tiger Woods got where he is one way. The love of golf and the desire to be good. When I first got serious about photography a friend of mine who owns a studio told me to Practice, Practice, Practice. I feel these forums increased my learning time ten fold. It's nice to have the wealth of knowledge on these forums at your finger tips...
Greg

[WesternGuy]

Greg, I agree 100% with everything you said and that is what is so good, for me, about digital. You can Practice, Practice, Practice until your memory card is full - download, reformat - and then practice some more.

Cheers,

WesternGuy

[another view]

IS vs. non IS...ambient light v. strobes... etc. etc.

I disagree with the statement. YOu can develop a photographic eye. Some people can't, but it's not limited to whether you are born with it or not.

can't or don't want to? Let's face it, not everyone is interested in photography, or is interested in it enough to learn what it is all about - technique, process, equipment, etc. These folks do not want to develop a photographic eye, nor are they interested in doing it. So, I guess we have a basic philosophic difference (?), because I believe you can if you really want to - develop a photographic eye that is.

Actually the way I read this, you guys are in agreement.

[livin4lax09]

actually what I meant is that some people literally can't develop that eye. they are hindered by something, and it may be their willingness, and in that case, it is "don't want to", but some people completely lack the ability to develop this eye, be it lack of mental processes or whatever. kind of right brain v. left sort of thing.

[WesternGuy]

actually what I meant is that some people literally can't develop that eye. they are hindered by something, and it may be their willingness, and in that case, it is "don't want to", but some people completely lack the ability to develop this eye, be it lack of mental processes or whatever. kind of right brain v. left sort of thing.

Left brain vs. right brain...interesting insight. I know a lot of folks who don't want to develop their photographic eye, they just use a P & S to take pictures of family and friends and assorted pets - my daughter being one of them, but I cannot think of anyone I know who has tried and tried and tried to develop their photographic eye and been unsuccessful at least at some level. Maybe you know someone like this(?).

Cheers,

WesternGuy

[freygr]

Some persons can't program a VCR and have problems with anything that is complex. So it's logical that no mater how hard some will try they will never get anything better than snap shots.

[Frog]

Either the guy that said, "you were born with the ability or not" either thinks he's a good photographer or else tried a few times and couldn't figure it out.

[Ronnoco]

Hey, someone has to be different.

I agree somewhat with that comment. My mother, never took a course or officially "learned" photography but she cleaned up on almost every prize and honour of the Canadian National Association of Photographic Art as well as being published, doing presentations and selling her work. At one point I instructed teachers who had never previously used a camera, on using a SLR film camera before going on vacations. The result was that some barely managed to get the film in the camera whereas a few produced quality results with excellent technique and super composition. I also taught two six year olds, who managed to produce excellent portraits using an SLR.

I think that photography is a mixture of a talent that you are born with plus learning or self-taught experience. By talent you are born with I mean in the broader sense of an artistic way of looking at life and the environment, a natural sense of visual composition and its effect, a creative urge to produce something visual in nature, and a knack for visualizing and understanding technical details.

I have supervised technicians who can load film and snap the shutter but with no sense or appreciation of the detailed effort necessary to produce quality or artistic work. They just don't have it. On the other end of the spectrum I have taught others who worked as if they had been born with a camera and produced excellent work with minimal learning and a great photographic and artistic eye.

Ronnoco

[livin4lax09]

Left brain vs. right brain...interesting insight. I know a lot of folks who don't want to develop their photographic eye, they just use a P & S to take pictures of family and friends and assorted pets - my daughter being one of them, but I cannot think of anyone I know who has tried and tried and tried to develop their photographic eye and been unsuccessful at least at some level. Maybe you know someone like this(?).

Cheers,

WesternGuy

well, I tried to kind of get to it without actually saying it, more of a beating around the bush, but I have a friend Charlie who is mentally slow, and even if he tried I really don't believe he could develop this skill (not being mean, as I love the kid and have known him for around 6 years now). This what I'm referring to when saying some people actually lack the ability/capacity to improve their photography view. Sorry I didn't say this right off the bat, I was kind of just trying to hint that some people have mental deficiencies that prevent them from improving.