What would you charge for photographing this ?

[Grandpaw]

I might have the opportunity to photograph a 200ft custom yacht from beginning to end. This yacht will take about a year to two years to build and this will allow the owner to follow along the progress of his boat. There will be outside and inside shots taken as the yacht progresses.

How would you figure out what to charge for doing this? Any ideas or suggestions would be great. I am retired and I am looking for something to do on a part time basis and pick up a few dollars in the process. If this works out I would think the owner would want many pictures taken. I think the price tag on the yacht is around 40 million. Any ideas or suggestion would be greatly appreciated, Jeff

[fx101]

Discuss this with the client. It would not be unreasonable to charge 30-40 per shot. Remember that you can't compare this to gallery work b/c its purpose is different, so you are not going to get away with 100+ per shot . I would say 800-900 for the entire sequence should be right. If he is paying 40 mil, that should be pocket change, you can always get a lot more. I know someone who took a shoot of a custom yacht in massachussets who got 7 grand for the shoot. Pretty beautiful stuff though.

[another view]

I can't help you with the amount, but if you do bid one amount for the entire job it should spell out how many times you'll be there. You might think that you'll be there once every two weeks, but the owner will want something else and then a big step in the construction happens and will want you there on short notice, etc... Sounds like a fun project!

[WesternGuy]

Grandpaw, have you given any thought to charging by the hour. I know this may be unusual, but you need to figure in the time to plan and layout the shots (this is not studio work), meetings with the client to discuss what he may want, or not,(initial meetings free) and other aspects that do not figure into taking images such as post processing (assuming digital). My guess would be in the $25-$30 per hour range and that would cover ALL the work that you do on the project.

If you can, maybe you can get initial estimates of the time you would spend on this based on the construction schedule, e.g., so much time for client meetings and discussions, so much time for layout and planning the shoots, so much time for actually shooting images, post-processing, etc. For a project this big, there should be a project management plan that lays out the various aspects of the construction project. If you can get a copy of this, then you should be able to figure out what is going to happen and when, and you can keep on top of any changes in the plan that might affect your schedule. Don't forget, the owner probably had to pay for the design as something this size is most likely a one of a kind, so why should he not pay for your planning time. These are just my thoughts, as this is how I would approach something like this (200 ft custom yacht!!). Your photography of this construction is really a project as compared to a studio shoot, or an on location assignment (go take pictures of the bald eagles here...)

Cheers,

WesternGuy

[readingr]

I would charge by the hour and agree a certain number of pictures per session. I would get this all planned out with the Yacht builder as some of the processes will be difficult to shoot, escpecially the Carbon Fibre stuff as these are toxic areas and are normally carried out in special rooms with men dressed in special suits.

Also consider holidays you want to take as important things may happen which means you need to alter your hols.

Another thing is during the build of a custom yacht lots of things will change with time and he may use your photos to make decisions so its important you know what he wants from the photos and how he will use them.

Roger

[Grandpaw]

Thanks to each of you for taking the time to respond. You have given me some good information and things to think about. If anyone would like to add any ideas they will be very much appreciated, Thanks again, Jeff

[WesternGuy]

Please let us know what you decide and work out with the owner. Also, please get his permission to post some of the pictures here ( a separate thread??) so we can follow the construction as I cannot even conceive of what a 200 ft. custom yacht looks like , even having been to Victoria (Vancouver Island, British Columbia) a number of times, I think the biggest one I have ever seen was just over 100 ft long and compared to the 32 footer I was in, IT was BIG.

Cheers,

WesternGuy

[Grandpaw]

Please let us know what you decide and work out with the owner. Also, please get his permission to post some of the pictures here ( a separate thread??) so we can follow the construction as I cannot even conceive of what a 200 ft. custom yacht looks like , even having been to Victoria (Vancouver Island, British Columbia) a number of times, I think the biggest one I have ever seen was just over 100 ft long and compared to the 32 footer I was in, IT was BIG.

Cheers,

WesternGuy

I would really like to do this but I was talking with a friend of mine and he ask me If I had liability insurance in case something like the flash going off caused a worker to fall off a ladder or cause some other accident by me being there. He also mentioned that records would be needed for the IRS and that I might need to check in to setting up something for having a small business to do this. I am going to check into some of these things but it may be more trouble than it is worth if in fact all of this is needed.

I thought this would be a very interesting and fun thing to do, but maybe not! I hope it works out but it doesn't look to promising right now, Jeff

[another view]

I guess I'm not surprised by the liability insurance requirement. I don't know who you'd check with for this, but there may be some information in the Business forum here. I know one-day policies are available for event photographers and I almost had to take one out myself for a wedding due to the hotel's policy. The couple had friends doing some of the work so they took out their own one-day policy and covered everyone. Nevertheless, if I were doing it professionally I'd have a liability policy - just a good thing to have.

I'm sure there are other ways to do it, but it is available thru PPA (Professional Photographers of America). They're basically the trade association for wedding and portrait photographers and it might be worth looking into - possibly you could build the cost of this into your bid for doing the job.

I'll bet the yard is similar to Palmer Johnson in Northern WI. They've built yachts like this for clients all over the world (Shieks, Sultans, Kings, etc). Driving by their yard, I've seen all kinds of big toys in various stages of completion. I'd love to do a project documenting something like that!

[WesternGuy]

Liability insurance is a bit of a nuisance, but its main purpose is to protect you. :thumbsup: When I was working (self-employed consultant), I had this type of insurance and it was relatively cheap - gave me peace of mind and some of my clients required it. No problem, cost of doing business. As far as records are concerned, a simple time sheet will suffice - you can make one up on Excel or simply find one on the web. It will cover dates, times and activities. This will also a give you a record for the client when you send him the bill. and you probably need to send him a formal bill every month, or whenever. (I would not wait until the end of the construction to send it - my opinion)

I doubt that you would need to set up a small business to do this - more trouble than it is worth You can simply operate as a sole proprietorship, at least that is an option we have in Canada - don't know about US or elsewhere - you simply take the fees that you are paid as your own income and pay taxes accordingly. If you do this, I would strongly advise you to keep track of expenses as they are deductible from any income. These would include car mileage to and from the construction location (in Canada we are allowed 0.35 per mile as an expense item - check with your tax people or your accountant), maybe you need to buy another memory card (assuming digital) and so on...

Hope this helps...

Cheers,

WesternGuy

[Dylan8i]

ehhh just have the buyer say in writing he will cover your insurance ( if he has 40 mil, hes probbably already self insured). and don't get payed in cash, get a free week on the yacht every year!

[cyberlord]

No need to set up a business unless you are to keep doing this. IRS requires a business to profit one year in 4 or 5 (I can't remember) and if you only do this once then the IRS will take your license away anyway. Just include it as extra income on a form 1199 (I think) that you would get from your employer.

Insurance is a great idea for yourself AND for others. You don't want to end up doing the work for free or worse yet paying to do the work. You might get the owner to foot the bill on the insurance too over the 2 years. Insurance might cover him too for something, you never know.

Just remember, something like this will never be easy, it is an undertaking to say the least. But it sounds fun and if I had the chance and time to invest, I'd do it just for the experience.

Tim

[freygr]

You really should check with your home owners, or renters insurance agent, you may already have some coverage. I don't thing it all that costly either if you already have insurance.

As far as the IRS just use a schedule C, you don't need to get a business license. If you net more than $400 you will have do a schedule SE also.

[Grandpaw]

I just want to let everyone know that I appreciate all the replies to my question. I am still checking on it to see if it can all work out, Jeff

[magi48]

If your a good photographer, no less than $50 an hour. The client the keeps all the pictures but you get to keep photos for your portfolio too.

[drg]

This is called a commission bid. You are being asked to engage in major commitment for an extended period of time. An initial quote in the 5 to six figure range is not out of line. Yes, I mean approaching $100,000.

The liability in many states for this type of work is now in the $10,000 plus range yearly. You are not only covering you workmen's compensation (I believe your state enforces it) but the liability if you break something on the work site like, in this case, a piece of electronics gear, knock a decking tool over the edge, or god forbid do something that injures another worker. See a commercial carrier.

Plan on purchasing two cameras just for this job. You should also have a dedicated notebook and an extensive backup plan in place. You don't want to be without a working camera when they spin fiber, lay deck, crane in the engines, etc.

To give you an idea, 1 day on a construction site covering crane picks for lift slab construction of a 4 story apartment building I will gross over $1200 with one assistant. About 4-6 hours max. I am standing on ground, no high steel, no hazmat, or other hazardous conditions. All digital delivery now.

The general contractor may even be willing to roll your services into the overall project as they often like copies for future customers, engineering verification, and even insurancce documentation where the carrier does not come out and do their own onsite work.

The customer may want large prints, a bound book (or several for future guests on the yacht), or there can even be publication rights. People who build these do it for several reasons, many of which are based around a type of publicity.

Best wishes, I'd love to work on this it sounds, and please PM me or email if you would like with further questions!