Help! Problem-damaged lens box

[Liz]

This isn't resolved yet, but I had to "vent" somewhere and ask for advice. My 24-105 L arrived yesterday via UPS. The outside box was damaged, but the actual white Canon box appeared more damaged. It was bent (not crushed) but a big dent in 2 different places.

I called Badger Graphics (Wisconsin) where I bought the lens for $1099 ($150 less expensive than B&H). They have an excellent reputation (I checked before I purchased it). I wanted to let them know that I was going to try out the lens today, but wanted them to know ahead of time that the box was damaged, so they would know it arrived that way. The first person I spoke with told me that "this problem is between you and UPS." I told him that from my experience, UPS won't do anything unless the package is insured. I also said if Badger insured it, my understanding is that it would be their responsibility to work it out with UPS. The person at first argued with me, but I eventually spoke with the manager, who said "try it out" and if it doesn't work, we'll work it out later. He did say they would file a claim, not me. However, I told him that I didn't want this on my credit card for months as I have to pay the interest. He kept repeating himself "try it out. We'll deal with the rest later."

After going back & forth for a long time, he agreed to call UPS today.

My biggest fear is that it may have some kind of damage that I won't find on a short trial basis - I'm not a "pro" and am afraid I won't catch something.

I couldn't just send it back, because the Canon box was obviously damaged, so I had to let them know.

My questions are:
what are my rights?
do I have to pay for this lens whether or not it's damaged?
What should I do now (besides try the lens out?)

I need advice, because I went way over what I can afford getting this lens. I have to sell my other lenses to pay for it, and I'm headed toward a panic mode.

BTW - I told him I returned a damaged box to B&H and they immediately credited my account. He told me that was because I live close by and could return it in person.

Edited to add:
I called UPS and was informed it is the dealer's responsibility to work it through with UPS. She also said that the way Badger is handling it is very poor business and bad customer service.

So what do I do next - about Badger?

Thanks for any help - advice.


Liz

[drg]

First Call your Credit Card Company. Tell them you have a mail-order purchase that has been damaged and are working with the vendor. Then, ask them to hold-pay or flag the account (so that the Badger knows) until you are satisfied. This is the beauty of Credit Cards.

Second, prepare to return the lens. Trying it out is fine since you have already indicated that to Badger. I'd return that lens no matter what! Make sure you do one very important thing. Write down the serial number and make sure you never see that lens again! I've notified Canon about L lenses that were bad or damaged to make sure that they don't get resold through some other channel.

The "white" box from Canon should have a foam or padding interior. Was that damaged? Torn padding, crushed foam, etc.? If the dents are on opposite sides of the box return the lens without even trying it. If the box just took blows, you can try it but I would still be concerned about the aperture control motor and about lens elements being misaligned. AF motors are tanks in these
things.

Get a new lens is the final word. Start with a good one, and enjoy any damage you do yourself

Let us know!

[another view]

Frustrating, isn't it. Not to sound like a broken record, but I'd try it out first. Use all the f-stops to make sure it doens't get hung up somewhere, as well as trying different focal lengths and different focus points (close focus, infinity, etc).

Also, shoot something at a fairly close distance wide open - since this will give you so little depth of field, you'll know if it's "on" or not. Use a tripod and make sure the focus is absolutely correct thru the viewfinder, then look at the file on the computer to make sure it is how it should be. If this last test isn't quite how it should be, it may not be damage to the lens causing it. This is the real test to make sure everything's aligned properly, and the best way to be sure. Let us know how it goes.

Actually, I'd do this with any new lens purchase. So that's the Badger you spoke of. I've heard of them but never bought anything there. This certainly doesn't speak well for them though. I'm not totally clear on how the claims work, but the right thing to do was call UPS to verify that.

So - save the box and all of the packaging. Go shoot and make sure it's a good one. If not, call them asap. If that doesn't work then you should have some purchase protection with the credit card that you used.

[drg]

P.S.

Check with UPS as to status or have your Credit Card provider do that! They will tell you, but you'll spend time on hold waiting for a supervisor.

[Liz]

This is good advice. I called my credit card company - and actually learned a few things. Badger's return policy is 14 days. It automatically becomes double that with my credit card. Canon warranty is 1 year - it automatically doubles to 2.

The rep from the cc company was very nice. He said it is already paid for, but he is sending them a letter explaining it is in dispute until the lens is returned to them. He said they deal directly with the place that sold me the lens.

To be honest, this makes me a little nervous, but the ccc rep assured me it was the right thing to do until it gets resolved.

Hope I did the right thing.

I do agree with you about sending the lens back. It's almost impossible to get this lens, so it was very difficult to make this decision, but I would always be looking for something if I kept it.

Thanks again. I had no idea I had these features on my card.

Liz

P.S.

Check with UPS as to status or have your Credit Card provider do that! They will tell you, but you'll spend time on hold waiting for a supervisor.

[Liz]

Not to sound like a broken record, but I'd try it out first.

Steve,
I'm going to sound like one here! After reading the post from Drg - I related to what he was saying, in the sense of sending it back. I am really afraid that there might be a problem I won't find until it's too late. I'm so "challenged" when it comes to technical stuff that I don't have any confidence in this area. I would always be looking for a problem - if I didn't get a sharp picture, etc., I would wonder if it was damaged - or was it me?

I still have so much to learn in photography, and have so little time, that I'm embarrassed to even admit that I don't trust my skills enough to give it a go.

One thing I might mention is that yesterday, I had decided to keep the lens, and not even tell Badger about the box because I wanted it so much. I even forgot that I thought of returning it for a while. But then I couldn't figure out if the IS was working or not. I just shot some flowers, and it didn't feel any different than when you don't use the IS. With my 28-135 IS it was obvious when the IS was on. Also, some of the shots were very soft. I didn't even remember at the time that the box had been damaged. However as I moved the box this morning, I took another look at it, and realized that the Canon box was really damaged enough to know it had been bounced around a lot to get this much damage inside another box. The outside box was flimsy and there were peanuts only on the bottom.

To be honest, this is so much money for me, that I even woke up at 3:00 a.m. wondering if I've lost my mind - spending this much on a lens! And I haven't even sold my other 2 lenses yet.

I have to say I agree with Drg - that I want to know I'm starting out with a solid lens, without having to wonder if it will stop working.

I am grateful for your suggestions, Steve. It's my own insecurity that I'm dealing with!

Thanks.
Liz

Frustrating, isn't it. Not to sound like a broken record, but I'd try it out first. Use all the f-stops to make sure it doens't get hung up somewhere, as well as trying different focal lengths and different focus points (close focus, infinity, etc).

Also, shoot something at a fairly close distance wide open - since this will give you so little depth of field, you'll know if it's "on" or not. Use a tripod and make sure the focus is absolutely correct thru the viewfinder, then look at the file on the computer to make sure it is how it should be. If this last test isn't quite how it should be, it may not be damage to the lens causing it. This is the real test to make sure everything's aligned properly, and the best way to be sure. Let us know how it goes.

Actually, I'd do this with any new lens purchase. So that's the Badger you spoke of. I've heard of them but never bought anything there. This certainly doesn't speak well for them though. I'm not totally clear on how the claims work, but the right thing to do was call UPS to verify that.

So - save the box and all of the packaging. Go shoot and make sure it's a good one. If not, call them asap. If that doesn't work then you should have some purchase protection with the credit card that you used.

[another view]

You know, now's the time to do it. After reading his response, I kind of agree. There's a lot of mechanical and electronic stuff going on inside an IS lens, but a lens like that should handle some abuse (question is, how much?). Since you have the option to return it now, I guess that's the best thing to do. You don't want to spend that kind of money on something just to be worried about "what if". Replacing it beats the small inconvenience of being without one for a short time.

I can understand worrying about spending a lot of money on something. I've "needed" the 12-24 since I got my DSLR over two years ago. I just can't convince myself to let go of the cash yet...

[Liz]

I feel better now! You've been so great in helping me out, that it was almost difficult to tell you that I decided to return it. I'm glad you understand.!

I called UPS and they told me the dealer had called them to say the lens is "broken." So, they're going to have to work that out. UPS is supposed to come here to check and see how it was packaged, etc. Then I guess it goes back to the dealer. My credit card will not be charged until the deal is over. What an ordeal!

I ordered another one already from another dealer........with whom I've dealt before. ;) It's supposed to be in probably the end of the next week - I'm first on the list because I had checked with them before and they still had my name.

Thanks again......I just love PR! And all the friends we have here.

Liz

You know, now's the time to do it. After reading his response, I kind of agree. There's a lot of mechanical and electronic stuff going on inside an IS lens, but a lens like that should handle some abuse (question is, how much?). Since you have the option to return it now, I guess that's the best thing to do. You don't want to spend that kind of money on something just to be worried about "what if". Replacing it beats the small inconvenience of being without one for a short time.

I can understand worrying about spending a lot of money on something. I've "needed" the 12-24 since I got my DSLR over two years ago. I just can't convince myself to let go of the cash yet...

[Lionheart]

I called UPS and was informed it is the dealer's responsibility to work it through with UPS. She also said that the way Badger is handling it is very poor business and bad customer service.

So what do I do next - about Badger?

Thanks for any help - advice.


Liz

The UPS person is correct. You had nothing to do with the box and shipping. It's all between the dealer and UPS. Personally, I've lost faith in UPS. I haven't had a lot of damaged packages, just 3 or 4, but one is enough to get me ticked. I have yet to get a Fed Ex package that was damaged, and it almost always arrived when it was supposed to.
Write a letter to Badger, send the same to UPS, and keep a copy for yourself. That way it's on paper, and you want to be the first to get it on paper. If you're brave, you can give Badger a second chance to redeem themselves, might just be a freak occurence, but the response they've shown is not encouraging. I had a similar first experience with a company dealing with hard drives and accessories, but I gave them a second and third chance and they were great after.
Leon

[Liz]

I agree with you about giving the dealer another chance. However, the ball is in their court now because they did call UPS, and the rep is coming either tomorrow or Friday to see how it was packed, and assess the damage. Also, the credit card company told me they would take it up with Badger. The ccc told me I would get a paper to fill out in the next day or two and I am to include the whole explanation. Believe me, I'm not "out to get" them, and I will be objective in my response.

I do have a concern as they would not guarrantee that I would get my money back. Every time I asked IF or when I would get my money back, I was told "let's just take it one step at a time" and "not until UPS gives it to us." I told them that I wanted to know if I would definitely get a refund. I never got a direct answer to this question. They do have a 14 day return period. That's why I called the credit company as I need to get this money back - no debate here!

Liz

The UPS person is correct. You had nothing to do with the box and shipping. It's all between the dealer and UPS. Personally, I've lost faith in UPS. I haven't had a lot of damaged packages, just 3 or 4, but one is enough to get me ticked. I have yet to get a Fed Ex package that was damaged, and it almost always arrived when it was supposed to.
Write a letter to Badger, send the same to UPS, and keep a copy for yourself. That way it's on paper, and you want to be the first to get it on paper. If you're brave, you can give Badger a second chance to redeem themselves, might just be a freak occurence, but the response they've shown is not encouraging. I had a similar first experience with a company dealing with hard drives and accessories, but I gave them a second and third chance and they were great after.
Leon

[Peter_AUS]

Liz,

Sorry to hear about your problem and hey, it happens, but not too often. Goes to show you how you get good service from B&H as well. I just hope that through all this you don't end up with having two lenses and charges.

I too would have been returning the lens after noting the serial number and asking for either a replacement or refund. Probably a refund in the first instance. And then get it from B&H, who pack well, don't they.

Hope it resolves soon for you.

[Liz]

Hey there Peter!

It's good to see you around. Thanks for responding to this post.

The credit card company said they would credit my account and notify the dealer - and work with them until it's resolved. So I won't have to pay for 2 lenses - for which I am most grateful. I'm hoping to get it from another dealer that charges $150 less than B&H and has a good rep - but we'll see. ;) I have my name/number in 2 places. It's supposed to be in by the end of next week. I have to sell my other 2 lenses - or I'll end up really in debt. It's the only way I could get the lens.

Thanks again.

Liz

Liz,

Sorry to hear about your problem and hey, it happens, but not too often. Goes to show you how you get good service from B&H as well. I just hope that through all this you don't end up with having two lenses and charges.

I too would have been returning the lens after noting the serial number and asking for either a replacement or refund. Probably a refund in the first instance. And then get it from B&H, who pack well, don't they.

Hope it resolves soon for you.

[Lionheart]

I've had a huge package from them that UPS thrashed. Broken flash bulb, missing brackets and mounting arms for my Boge AutoPoles. I called them up and they sent me the missing pieces without question. I assume they took things up with UPS on their own without my help. I LOVE B&H, I don't shop anywhere else for my photo needs, except Adorama once in a while if BH doesn't have it in stock.

[Liz]

B&H - is where I normally get all my equipment. However, their $1,250 price for this lens is $150 higher than a few other places - some of them reputable. Not to mention the fact that they won't have them available for quite a while - due to a huge waiting list. The other dealer will probably have them by next week. ;)

What would you do?

Liz

I've had a huge package from them that UPS thrashed. Broken flash bulb, missing brackets and mounting arms for my Boge AutoPoles. I called them up and they sent me the missing pieces without question. I assume they took things up with UPS on their own without my help. I LOVE B&H, I don't shop anywhere else for my photo needs, except Adorama once in a while if BH doesn't have it in stock.

[Liz]

B&H got the lens in stock today. I've always ordered from them - it will be here tomorrow.

Liz

I've had a huge package from them that UPS thrashed. Broken flash bulb, missing brackets and mounting arms for my Boge AutoPoles. I called them up and they sent me the missing pieces without question. I assume they took things up with UPS on their own without my help. I LOVE B&H, I don't shop anywhere else for my photo needs, except Adorama once in a while if BH doesn't have it in stock.

[Peter_AUS]

Good and you will be a much happier little vegemite as well.