Dust in sensor - Help!

[Liz]

I posted these 2 images on VF - Paul noticed evidence of dust in the sensor - see upper left side (I thought these were a mark on my monitor). Does anyone know where I could get this done?

I don't think I want to do this myself - I'm not good at "fixing" fragile equipment on my camera (Rebel XT).

The only place I know that services cameras around here basically does 35mm equipment. Where can I find a local place - northern NJ or Manhatten to do this? I got the camera at B&H.

Thanks for any help.

Liz

[another view]

I saw those last night - you said a couple minutes apart? Interesting weather!

And I have to say I noticed dust on them too but wasn't sure if it was on the sensor or not. The main thing I see is a curl (like a backwards "C") at the very upper left of the blue sky, but it's down a little farther on the cloudy sky. Usually dust doesn't move so it's always in the same spot on every image, but if it's something this big it can move a little just from the mirror and shutter going up and down - like a fan. I see a couple other spots on there that are more typical though.

First line of defense is prevention. Change lenses quickly, never leave the body without a cap longer than needed, turn your back to the wind if you're outside, etc. You've had this camera long enough that you're probably careful with this, if you haven't done anything to clean it yet. You can clone out a piece or two quick enough in Photoshop and this also keeps you from having to deal with the sensor.

You'll get to a point that it needs to be cleaned, though. They can be professionally cleaned by the manufacturer but I've heard stories where the camera comes back with the same dust, just in different spots on the sensor... All I do is use one of these. They come in different sizes but I have the medium so it fits in a camera bag (also handy for cleaning dust out of keyboards!). Follow the instructions in the camera's manual for sensor cleaning mode - my camera (and probably all) have it. This mode flips up the mirror and opens the shutter to expose the sensor; but doesn't charge the sensor. If you put the camera in "B" shutter speed you'd do the same thing but the sensor would be charged - so the dust won't blow off very well, and if it does it goes right back (like a magnet).

Doing only this - not touching the sensor - while holding the camera upside down so the dust will fall out once it's loose has worked for me so far for 2-1/2 years. Of course, I also try to prevent the dust from coming in to begin with. It's quick, easy, cheap and less likely to cause a scratch than anything that actually touches the sensor.

[Lara]

It's so awesome to have you guys willing to help out and give such good advice!!

Steve, we're one of those states who has the motto, if you don't like the weather, wait a minute. ;)

[Liz]

We were only out there for about 10 or 15 minutes. During that time the sky changed multiple times from bright sun to white, dark, heavy & light clouds. It was a very cloudy and windy day - the clouds were moving very fast.

Thanks for taking the time to explain all of the right ways and steps to clean the sensor. Yes, I am very careful when I change lenses. I've only changed them outside once or twice and did it very quickly - and it wasn't windy as I wouldn't change the lenses outside in wind.

There is one Canon authorized service place about 25 miles from here. Actually it's the Mack Camera where many people get their extended warranties. I'll call them to see how long I have to leave it there.

I'm a little afraid to do it myself as my hands aren't as steady as they used to be and I'm afraid I'll make it worse. I may give it a "shot" though.

I have a new lens coming in so I don't want to be without my camera, but then I don't want the results looking like this. :-)

Thanks again.

Liz

I saw those last night - you said a couple minutes apart? Interesting weather!

And I have to say I noticed dust on them too but wasn't sure if it was on the sensor or not. The main thing I see is a curl (like a backwards "C") at the very upper left of the blue sky, but it's down a little farther on the cloudy sky. Usually dust doesn't move so it's always in the same spot on every image, but if it's something this big it can move a little just from the mirror and shutter going up and down - like a fan. I see a couple other spots on there that are more typical though.

First line of defense is prevention. Change lenses quickly, never leave the body without a cap longer than needed, turn your back to the wind if you're outside, etc. You've had this camera long enough that you're probably careful with this, if you haven't done anything to clean it yet. You can clone out a piece or two quick enough in Photoshop and this also keeps you from having to deal with the sensor.

You'll get to a point that it needs to be cleaned, though. They can be professionally cleaned by the manufacturer but I've heard stories where the camera comes back with the same dust, just in different spots on the sensor... All I do is use one of these. They come in different sizes but I have the medium so it fits in a camera bag (also handy for cleaning dust out of keyboards!). Follow the instructions in the camera's manual for sensor cleaning mode - my camera (and probably all) have it. This mode flips up the mirror and opens the shutter to expose the sensor; but doesn't charge the sensor. If you put the camera in "B" shutter speed you'd do the same thing but the sensor would be charged - so the dust won't blow off very well, and if it does it goes right back (like a magnet).

Doing only this - not touching the sensor - while holding the camera upside down so the dust will fall out once it's loose has worked for me so far for 2-1/2 years. Of course, I also try to prevent the dust from coming in to begin with. It's quick, easy, cheap and less likely to cause a scratch than anything that actually touches the sensor.

[paulnj]

Like Steve said ;)

I have a similiar blower and that technique has worked for me for a long time too. Mind you... I change lenses IN VISIBLY DUSTY AREAS 1/2 the time also(no choice), so I blow dust out ALOT ;)

[Liz]

Thanks for diagnosing my problem - and the thumbs up.

I can always count on you. BTW I had called Mack Camera and they said you have to leave your camera there - no guarrantee it will take less than 6-8 weeks, altho it may only take a week if it's a simple problem. No thanks.

Liz

Like Steve said ;)

I have a similiar blower and that technique has worked for me for a long time too. Mind you... I change lenses IN VISIBLY DUSTY AREAS 1/2 the time also(no choice), so I blow dust out ALOT ;)

[another view]

Give it a try - you're not touching the sensor so there's no need to worry. Hold the bulb with the tip 1/2" from the sensor, and just be careful not to touch it. If you do, it's probably not the end of the world but be careful not to. A friend of a friend is a product shooter and cleans his DSLR almost carelessly, from his description. I'd be afraid to do it once this way, but he does it regularly. He started doing this with his very-expensive medium format digital back too, and no problems there either.

Lara, I thought Illinois started that saying. Actually it's even more true in northern Wisconsin! Makes things interesting - look at the heavy clouds, but the sun is breaking thru and lighting the tower so it really stands out.

[dmm96452]

It's not the end of the world if you touch the sensor, but you definitely want to avoid it. I use a small blower as well and accidently touched the sensor. No real harm done as the sensor does have a glass filter over it, but the end of the blower made a small streak that I did need to get the local camera shop to clean.

[JSPhoto]

It's not the end of the world if you touch the sensor, but you definitely want to avoid it. I use a small blower as well and accidently touched the sensor. No real harm done as the sensor does have a glass filter over it, but the end of the blower made a small streak that I did need to get the local camera shop to clean.

It can be the end of the sensor though. I know one photog who thought he'd blow his sensor off with a bulb blower like this and wound bumping the sensor... $1200 later he got his camera back.... new sensor. the tiny, barely visible to the eye scratch showed up in photos as a spot that was blown out. It damaged the sensor.

When changing lenses, alway hold the camera down so there is less risk of dust/dirt falling into the body. I change lenses at dirt tracks and rarely have a problem, even at the dustiest tracks. I get my camera's cleaned twice a year (May and August) by Canon and if needed in a pinch at a local Canon dealer.

JS

[Liz]

When changing lenses, alway hold the camera down so there is less risk of dust/dirt falling into the body.

Holding the camera down is very good advice.

I get my camera's cleaned twice a year (May and August) by Canon and if needed in a pinch at a local Canon dealer.

Mack Camera is the closest authorized Canon service center - they're the ones who have the extended warranties that many people get. I called there today and they said I had to leave the camera there and it could take up to 6-8 weeks. She said it's possible I could get it in a week, but they don't guarantee it.

How do you find a Canon place that returns are faster?

Thanks for your advice.

Liz

[Asylum Steve]

How do you find a Canon place that returns are faster?

Liz,

A camera body cleaning is a fairly generic thing, even for the newer, more complicated digtial ones. I'm a Canon man through and through, but it wouldn't bother me a bit to have my equipment cleaned at non-authorized camera shops.

What's more important is the experience of the shop, and the care they take with their customers.

Technically speaking, a cleaning isn't considered a repair, but rather maintenance, and it would be absurd for a shop to treat it as such and expect you to wait a month or two to get your camera back.

The wait for a simple cleaning should be no more than a week...

BTW, a REAL cleaning is more like a car tune-up, and should also include a shutter speed check and cleaning all the camera's electrical and battery contacts.

[Liz]

I couldn't do it..........it's as simple as that.

Steve (anotherview) - thanks for posting all the steps. I'm printing it out for the future, thinking maybe I'll try it. I was too afraid that I would mess it up, and I can't afford ($) to do that.

Steve (asylum) - I did take it to the local service repair who are authorized Canon repair service for 35mm only. They said Canon wouldn't give them the authorization for digital. At any rate, they have been in business for years, so I took it there yesterday and it was done by today. $45. It was worth it for me.

Thanks for all your help.

Liz

[JSPhoto]

Better safe than sorry Liz. $45 isn't bad for cleaning. I'll admit, I cheat as I have Canon techs clean my gear when they are at the Indy 500 and Brickyard 400. I normally get it back in an hour or two and it's FREE! They do hundreds of bodies and lenses during those two visits.

Now to last night. I had to swith to a wide angle lens to shoot the homecoming queen and king for the paper. This morning I quickly threw my 70-200 back on as I flew out the door, 1/2 hour late for a job up the street (tennis sectional). I'm shooting away when suddenly realize there is something on my lens (I think). Now wait...it's MOVING, no FLYING... inside the camera! Somehow, when I quickly changed lenses a fly got in the camera body So here I am out on the tennis court pulling my lens off and trying to get a fly out of the camera while also dodging tennis balls. Thinking the fly was gone, I put the lens back on and began shooting again... he was still there. Never did get him out during the match....may still be hiding above the mirror as I can't find him until I go to shoot. Oddly, it didn't affect any shots.... but it's a good excuse for the bad ones

JS

[Liz]

Wow! I'm glad I just had a little (or lot) of dust in the Sensor. I think I would panic if I had a fly inside my camera. I hope you get it out before it decides to collapse in there! This is certainly a funny story.......shows you what can happen when you leave the lens off for a few seconds.

Liz

Better safe than sorry Liz. $45 isn't bad for cleaning. I'll admit, I cheat as I have Canon techs clean my gear when they are at the Indy 500 and Brickyard 400. I normally get it back in an hour or two and it's FREE! They do hundreds of bodies and lenses during those two visits.

Now to last night. I had to swith to a wide angle lens to shoot the homecoming queen and king for the paper. This morning I quickly threw my 70-200 back on as I flew out the door, 1/2 hour late for a job up the street (tennis sectional). I'm shooting away when suddenly realize there is something on my lens (I think). Now wait...it's MOVING, no FLYING... inside the camera! Somehow, when I quickly changed lenses a fly got in the camera body So here I am out on the tennis court pulling my lens off and trying to get a fly out of the camera while also dodging tennis balls. Thinking the fly was gone, I put the lens back on and began shooting again... he was still there. Never did get him out during the match....may still be hiding above the mirror as I can't find him until I go to shoot. Oddly, it didn't affect any shots.... but it's a good excuse for the bad ones

JS

[JSPhoto]

It was strange to say the least. I knew he was inside when I realized I was seeing him walking and his wings were towards me as if looking down on him. Certainly wasn't what I expected to see!
I needed a good laugh today though, considering I was more than 30 minutes late to an event just 8/10ths of a mile from home ... late night and I'm still

JS

[SmartWombat]

I've tried the blowing technique and it got about 90% of the dust out.
The stubborn 10% eventually got to be so bad I resorted to a brush (SensorBrush from Visible Dust) and that ahndled it for the first time.
After a few more weeks, I found specks even the brush and blower won't shift.

I eventually wound up using the Copperhill technique, with PecPads and a methanol based cleaner.
Scary doing it myself for the first time, but I've got to the point now where I can get from 10-15 spots to 1 in about 5 minutes.

Maybe I ought to create a web page of my experiences.
I have some wonderful before and after images.
OK not so wonderful before ;)

A friend of mine just doesn't want to try it, and sends his Nikon back for two weeks almost every month for cleaning.
It got so bad he bought a second body so he could carry on shooting.

Of course that means he doesn't need to change lenses as much !
Which may in the end be the solution to my problem.

[Liz]

My 300D never had dust on the sensor and I had it much longer than the XT.

Is it the XT - or just a "happening" that's part of digital photography.

It sounds like it happens much too often.

Maybe I'll keep the 24-105 on my camera once I get it. That may be another reason to pay this much money for the lens.

I'll have to be more brave - and try doing it myself. I'm such a klutz when it comes to these things.

Liz

[JSPhoto]

Hmmm, sounds like something is amiss here. I am lucky to have dust on my sensor once or twice in a year, and thats when doing a lot of races too. That includes dirt track racing. Even at the worst and dirtiest tracks I rarely have anything get into the camera. Now the outside of the lens is another story! There are times it has a coating of dust on the entire thing... glass included.

When cleaning sensors you have to be carefull using any fluids, some may void the warranty, some may eat through the sensor coating. And you should never touch the sensor with anything... let the Nikon or Canon folks do that... they mess it up and it's their expense, not yours. These places making or selling sensor cleaning kits and so on are not supported by any manufacturer like Nikon or Canon.

JS

[paulnj]

The reason a original 1D gets less dust on the sensor than a XT is because they have different types of sensors ;) The Drebels, 20D and MKII cameras have CMOS sensors which attract more dust than the CCD in the original 1D body so I have read


GO NUTS
http://www.pbase.com/copperhill/ccd_cleaning

[JSPhoto]

There is more to it though Paul. The only thing I can think of is
1: much better seals
2: I rarely change lenses

The difference in sensors is that the 1D dosn't have a CMOS sensor. Personally I wouldn't want a CMOS, it's extremly sensitive to static electricity, lightning close by can zap CMOS chips! I remember Bearcat scanners getting knocked out by lightning a mile away. They finally changed things though. You can hold a CMOS chip and walk across carpet and hear it pop

JS

[paulnj]

But the sensor difference explains why WE have less dust collection from changing lenses than the CMOS crowd.

I have NEVER heard of a camera getting ruined by LIGHTNING in the air ;)

[SmartWombat]

Cleaning in progress.
Take a shot of a while background, deliberately out of focus, stopped down as far as possible.
Then adjust levels using the histogram to just either side of the peak.
That shows every last speck of dirt.

#1 before
#2 after blower
#3 after brush
#4 after 3 wipes

10 minutes for me - or at least a week away at Canon.

[JSPhoto]

But the sensor difference explains why WE have less dust collection from changing lenses than the CMOS crowd.

*** even my CMOS version 300D dosen't have these problems, and I left the lens off it for a month, no cap, no lens. It has been cleaned once in a year and half.

I have NEVER heard of a camera getting ruined by LIGHTNING in the air ;)

True, but the fact is CMOS technology is extremely static sensitive, which is one of the reasons Canon doesn't want you sticking anything near the sensor. Besides scratching the sensor coating or eating the coating off with chemicals/liquids, just simply having static electricity jump from your finger or device your cleaning the sensor with can destroy the sensor.

Now you don't have to send the camera to Canon each time you need to clean the sensor, just make certain it's a reputable and Canon Authorized repair shop. It shouldn't take more than a day or two to get it cleaned.

JS

[Liz]

I hesitated to take mine to the place where I've always gone for my 35mm because they are only authorized to do 35mm. The guy said they wouldn't authorize them yet to do digital. However, I think they have done a great job for years with 35mm and seemed to know what they were talking about with the sensor - and at least this time did a good job.

Am I taking a chance by taking it there? Should I find someone with more experience in digital to do the cleaning? He does repair digital, but if I'm going to need repair, I would definitely not take it there - besides it's under warranty, so except for cleaning/maintenance, I have to take it to an authorized (digital) Canon repair.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Liz

True, but the fact is CMOS technology is extremely static sensitive, which is one of the reasons Canon doesn't want you sticking anything near the sensor. Besides scratching the sensor coating or eating the coating off with chemicals/liquids, just simply having static electricity jump from your finger or device your cleaning the sensor with can destroy the sensor.

Now you don't have to send the camera to Canon each time you need to clean the sensor, just make certain it's a reputable and Canon Authorized repair shop. It shouldn't take more than a day or two to get it cleaned.

JS

[JSPhoto]

Liz,

I'd say the following:

1: he repairs digital cameras. not Canon persay, but Nikon and others use CMOS sensors in some units - he knows the hazards of CMOS
My only concern would be any fluids - Canon does use one, what I don't know, what may work on one manufactueres sensor may not on another.

2: Is it clean now? and working OK?

I'd say if he did a good job you'd be OK using his services. Now wether the fluid he uses, if any would over time damage the sensor coating I can't say. Just something to consider. If all he's doing is "dusting it" to get the fuzz out thats no problem, all manufacturers use the same technique for that. Using a computer keyboard duster is not the way to go.

I have seen the techs clean cameras at Indy, they use a similar duster, but it is specifically for certain items, not sensors. Keyboard dusters can blow the sensor coating to bits after a while, it's like sandblasting them. The coating is exremly thin and it dosn't take much abuse to destroy it.

JS