Color problems when posting jpegs online

[Hockeyshots]

I've encountered a somewhat recent problem when posting my jpegs to an online gallery: the color in my jpegs appears all washed out. I say recent because I've posted to this site before and those pics have their color. It's only my recent uploads that look washed out.

I have been experimenting. I begin my work from a Nikon RAW file. I create an Adobe DNG file from the RAW file and work from the DNG using Photoshop CS. I work with multiple adjustment layers (a la Radiant Vista) and the resulting picture looks pretty good - on my computer. I end up with 3 files: a 300ppi 16-bit Photoshop "master" image, a 300ppi jpeg, and a 72ppi jpeg which I upload. But before I upload it, I look at it from my wife's PC and it still looks quite good. However, when I upload it it looks pretty bad.

Before I started using the multiple layers method of photo manipulation, I used to use some combination of levels (red, green and blue) and curves (contrast) right on the resulting jpeg photo. However, I can't even seem to reproduce that anymore.

I know my monitor is going (there was a recent thread about that elsewhere here) but still, they look pretty good from my wife's PC, and frankly I wouldn't expect the jpeg to look different when viewed from my PC, whether the jpeg is viewed from my hard disc or from the web site.

Any ideas or suggestions regarding what might be going on?

HS

[deckcadet]

Could be any number of issues: Color Space problems (did you shoot Adobe RGB and not convert to SRGB for posting?), and uncalibrated monitors are probably the primary factors.

[Hockeyshots]

Color Space problems (did you shoot Adobe RGB and not convert to SRGB for posting?)

I do shoot Adobe RGB. When I do my preliminary work on the DNG file using Photoshop's RAW plugin I work in ProPhoto RGB. When I move back into Photoshop proper, I transition back to Adobe RGB. This has not been a problem previously.

uncalibrated monitors are probably the primary factors.

But wouldn't that only matter from one monitor to another? I am viewing the original jpeg and the uploaded jpeg on the same monitor.

Thanks for taking the time to respond. Please let me know if something else comes to mind.

[Hockeyshots]

Color Space problems...

This apparently is the problem. I don't know how to fix it yet, but I was browsing the files with Windows and looked at the file's properties. The ones that are washed out list their "Color Representation" as Uncalibrated, whereas the ones that look OK are listed as sRGB. So, I fix this I fix my problem with viewing them from the website. Ya-hoo!

[Peter_AUS]

Hockeyshots,

When you are doing the final for the web, convert them to sRGB and you should then solve the problem. I use PSCS2 and use save for web from the file menu and don't seem to have the problem you are stating above.

Calibration is a good thing as well always, but not confusing things during your process is a good thing to remember as well, which I think is maybe something that is happening from what you have written above.

I usually shoot RAW, convert in Capture One Pro to tiff files and then work on them, when ready for the web that is when I use File/Save for Web as output as jpg file, that way I loose little info to final process.

[Hockeyshots]

I've finally been able to resolve my problem, and while the solution was easy it was not exactly straighforward. The problem was the value contained within the EXIF color space tag embedded within my picture file. There are only two values permitted: sRGB and Uncalibrated. My files used to contain sRGB but recently got changed to Uncalibrated, and it wasn't an obvious change on my part. It was a "side effect".

I can trace the start of this problem from my transition from JPEG to RAW. As far as I can tell, when I saved the image as a JPEG my camera (a D70) would populate the EXIF tag with the value sRGB. However, that tag doesn't appear to be present in a RAW file. Instead, there is a tag called Photometric Interpretation and its value is RGB. Apparently, somewhere in the conversion between RAW and Photoshop PSD or JPEG, the EXIF information is "transformed" (if that's the right word) from an EXIF dataset for RAW to an EXIF dataset for PSD/JPEG. It's in this transformation that the Photometric Interpretation tag gets dropped and the Color Space tag gets added. And apparently when Photoshop generates its conversion data it can't figure out whether the Color Space should be sRGB or Uncalibrated, and it selects Uncalibrated. There's nothing in my D70 UM that discusses this tag or how it gets set.

Also - apparently - when a JPEG is uploaded to a website, this tag is carried along with the image file, and when the client downloads the file the EXIF color space tag is used to ascertain how to interpret the color information in the picture. I guess the value Uncalibrated results in a very diminished (or compressed) color space selection.

By saving the file in Photoshop using the "Save to the Web" option, all the EXIF information appears to be stripped out of the file and the image reproduces nicely.

This is a somewhat speculative description of what is going on. I need to validate it with Adobe and see what they have to say about it. In the meantime, I can tell you: the before and after images are quite different with respect to color reproduction, and as far as I've been able to determine this is the only difference.

[Photo-John]

I haven't had all the same issues. But I did used to have the washed-out images experience when I posted to the Web. And colorspaces and profiles are the root of the problem. In the end, if you always make sure to convert your Web files to sRGB, what you see on your monitor in Photoshop will be what you see in your Web browser.

Doesn't your D70 have an Adobe RGB colorspace option? That's the preferable colorspace to shoot in. My EOS 1D shoots in Adobe RGB but still tags the files with an sRGB profile. Lame. But once you know it's doing it, you can act accordingly. If I'm shooting JPEGs (never) I dump the attached profile when I open a file in Photoshop and then associate the Adobe RGB profile. And the RAW converter I use (BreezeBrowser, CS2) is set to automatically attach the Adobe RGB profile to 1D files.

[Hockeyshots]

Doesn't your D70 have an Adobe RGB colorspace option? That's the preferable colorspace to shoot in.

Yes, the camera is configured to shoot in the Adobe RGB color space. However, as near as I can tell from examining the information displayed by Photoshop in their file browser, the Nikon RAW files don't embed that information within the Camera Data (EXIF) information. I see Color Mode RGB in the File Properties Metadata and Photometric Interpretation RGB in the Camera Data (EXIF) Metadata. But nothing identifying Adobe RGB as the color space used when the file was shot.

Questions: Is that because the raw data doesn't actually contain color information per se? It is just the raw data output (grey scale) from the CCD, correct? The RAW converter applies the color space, doesn't it?

I have Photoshop's Camera RAW plug-in configured to work with the RAW file in the ProPhoto RGB color space. ProPhoto RGB is supposed to provide a better/broader/deeper color space than Adobe RGB. Then, when I save it for the web, I convert to Adobe RGB and use the Save for the Web option which inserts the correct color profile and (apparently) strips the EXIF data.

I began using the ProPhoto RGB color space after reading Bruce Frasier's book, Camera Raw with Adobe Photoshop CS. It's been my RAW bible. The question before me now is, should I continue to use this color space when manipulating my RAW files? I'm not sure what the answer to that question is going to be. I'll have to experiment with going from RAW through JPEG in Adobe RGB, as well as transitioning from ProPhoto RGB back to Adobe RGB for the web. I don't need to perform the conversion back for printing.

Time will tell.