Class cancelled....

[Xia_Ke]

due to lack of interest. Apparently only a couple people signed up. This sucks I'm determined to at least learn to process my own film now. Anybody got any pointers on where to begin? Book, video, etc recommendations? Right now I have Kodak 400TX and 125PX B&W film and Kodak MAX 400 Versatility color film if that helps. This really sucks, I'm so bummed Thanks in advance for any help.

Aaron

[jorgemonkey]

Lets see, you put the film in a container, pour chemicals into it, give it a little shake every once in a while, dump out chemicals, put in different chemicals, repeat, pull out film & dry it. Once its dried you'll be able to see if you did it right or not

I did some B&W developing a few semesters ago, and it was a blast. Too bad I don't have any room in my apartment for a darkroom.

[mn shutterbug]

You just need a good old book on film and paper developing. Here is a link to an oldie but a goodie. Of course it doesn't list specs for individual films, but it does cover all the aspects and creative techniques.

http://product.half.ebay.com/The-Dar...QQtgZvidetails

[Xia_Ke]

Lets see, you put the film in a container, pour chemicals into it, give it a little shake every once in a while, dump out chemicals, put in different chemicals, repeat, pull out film & dry it. Once its dried you'll be able to see if you did it right or not

Well I know that much...LOL I dunno, for some reason I'm really intimidated about the process of getting hands on with film

You just need a good old book on film and paper developing. Here is a link to an oldie but a goodie. Of course it doesn't list specs for individual films, but it does cover all the aspects and creative techniques.

http://product.half.ebay.com/The-Dar...QQtgZvidetails

Thanks for the recommendation MS. I'll check that book out

[mjs1973]

for some reason I'm really intimidated about the process of getting hands on with film

Nothing to worry about. You don't even need a dark room, unless you plan on making your own prints. Get a changing bag, film developing tank, a thermometer, and some chemistry, and your all set.

Not sure what to tell you about the color film. I have never done that, and from what I've read, it's more difficult than B&W. As far as getting what you need, film equipment is pretty cheap on ebay. You should be able to order the chemistry from Adorama or find it locally. If I remember correctly, B&H won't ship the chemistry.

[Xia_Ke]

Thank you for the encouragement Michael! Guess I have some reading to do huh? Kodak's website should have all the tech sheets on the film for development times and everything right? Thanks again for the help guys. I'm sure there will be more questions to come

[drg]

Kodak published a series of Workshop books. They might be of great value if you can find one in the bookstore or online.

Lots of step by step directions and tips and hints with brand name instructions(KODAK products of course).

C-41(most color these days) is not economical to do at home. Not impossible, but you need precise temperature control and lots of water depending upon how you do it. The chemicals are also an order of magnitude nastier.

A local 'real' camera store, if there's one left in your area, knowing that you will purchase 'stuff' could probably point you towards someone who'd guide you through a few first rolls of b/w.

If you can't find any information on the KODAK books, let me know and I'll try and dig up a number or reference. Amazon or Barnes and Noble should still have some listed or in stock.

Best wishes and let us know if you decide to try 'film' again.

[reverberation]

Setting up a darkroom is simple. I always set mine up in a basement or downstairs bathroom. Start with B&W it is real easy. I had a roll of photostencil for silkscreening. I don't know where they sell this stuff, but it is red and can be used to patch large lightleaks. I used red graphics tape along the door. I got a hose from a medical supply store and hooked it to the sink faucet and ran it into a tray in the bathtub. I bought four brown 1 gallon jugs, and labeled them. I spent the most on the used bogen enlarger and a new timer to plug the enlarger into. I used a piece of plywood over the tub to hold my developer stopbath and fixer. This setup will let you make prints, and also make positives from your negatives. You can pare this down by losing the enlarger, timer and paper trays. Substitute a slide projector for making positives.
A good book to have is The Photographers Handbook ISBN 0-679-74204-2. I had the second and third editions. You should be able to get a copy used online. It explains recticulation, posterization, and other effects that you should be able to do with this setup. The film tank should come with a thermometer. The spool or two spools in the tank should be plastic. The metal spools are better but harder to load until you get good at it. You will probably want to practice loading the spools in your changing bag before you try it for real. Just use pieces of developed film or use a cheap roll and pull out half of it and cut it, the other half can be used for contact positives. The first couple of spools you load can be trying. I always kept a pair of scissors in the bag and cut the lip off the film as it was usually bent from being loaded in the camera.

Developing your own film will give you an education in photography that will make you better at photoshop and better at digital photography. Don't put it off, its way easier than you think. Just do film and see how it works. The developer has info on times and temps and I believe the film did too, though it may be on Kodaks website now. Have fun!

[Xia_Ke]

Thank you very much guys! I'm mainly interested in just doing b&w film. If the color is too much of a PITA, I'll just throw it in the freezer or something til I get comfortable with b&w. I only bought the color as when I was looking for film deals on Ebay, I found a 20 pack of the Kodak max that I ended up winning for only $8.99 after shipping. At that price I just figured it would be good cheap practice film. I did find all the developing info for the film I have on Kodak's site and I checked Adorama and looks like they have everything I'll need chemicals wise. So, over the next few weeks I'll starting picking stuff up here and there as funds allow. I'm psyched. This is going to be fun

[another view]

Bummer. I did learn it from a book and really it's not hard. I found it intimidating like a lot of people, but there really isn't a need for that - just jump in and try it! Of course it's best to use film that doesn't have important images on it as you get started...

One of the best things to do is to pull one roll out of the canister in daylight; essentially ruining it. Practice winding this roll onto the developing spool in the daylight, over and over until you can do it with your eyes closed - literally. I used stainless steel reels and found them very easy to use once I got the "feel" for it. Basically, you clip one end into the center of the reel and then guide it in while turning the reel. I used my left hand to turn the reel and my right hand guided the film; putting a little bit of a curve into it so it would go into the track of the reel. If you have a decent camera store that has used B&W stuff, they can show you how to do this.

I'm starting to wonder why I got rid of my stuff - I'm getting the bug to try it again!

[Xia_Ke]

...Of course it's best to use film that doesn't have important images on it as you get started...

My D50 is never far off in case there's something really worthwhile ;)

...I'm starting to wonder why I got rid of my stuff - I'm getting the bug to try it again!

So do it again and you can help walk me through it as you re-learn

[another view]

Thinking about trying it again over the winter - too much stuff going on now... And Michael is right, you don't need a darkroom unless you want to make traditional "wet" prints. I've never done that and got my film ready to go in a changing bag. Mine was about 30" square, had two sleeves you put your arm into and double zippers to make sure it was light tight. Put all the stuff you need in there (the film, reel, developing canister, tool for getting the film out of the canister and scissors for trimming the ends of the film. Of course, if you forget the scissors, just put the film into the canister and seal it so you can take your arms out of the bag without ruining it (done that a couple of times).

Once the film is inside the light tight developing canister, you can work with it in the light. I actually did all of this stuff in my kitchen but was careful to scrub everything down after working with all of those chemicals. I hung my strips of film to dry in the shower and they were dry by the time I got up in the morning.

Oh, and another tip - use distilled water. I live in an old house and even though we have a water softener, it's not good enough for developing. Distilled water is inexpensive and will keep you from getting water spots on your film as you rinse it (and doesn't hurt with the developer, stop and fixer).

[Xia_Ke]

....Oh, and another tip - use distilled water. I live in an old house and even though we have a water softener, it's not good enough for developing. Distilled water is inexpensive and will keep you from getting water spots on your film as you rinse it (and doesn't hurt with the developer, stop and fixer).

Thank you for mentioning that as we have very hard water here :thumbsup:

[SmartWombat]

Anybody got any pointers on where to begin?

Just dive right in.
I did it the hard way, bought the ILFORD Manual of Photography and used the recipes in there to make my own darkroom chemicals from the raw ingredients.

First off, sacrifice a roll that's never been in the camera. Use it for learning how to thread it onto the spool in the developing tank !
First, in daylight so that you can see what you're doing (wrong or right) and learn.
Then try it with your eyes closed.
Then try it in a lightproof changing bag.

Finally, after you can load the film right every time, then do it for real with an exposed film and learn about the mixing of the chemicals, temperature/time control, the importance of agitation, and you then find out if you need wetting agents in the chemicals.
Oxford is a hard water area, and I needed to take care of that in the final rinse or get dried out crusty deposits all over the negatives

It's easy.
I could do it from when I was 11, and was let loose in the school darkroom when I was 13..

Though teenagers can also program video recorders properly, and are a replacement for encyclopaedias

[Xia_Ke]

SA-WEEET! I love Ebay Just got done winning a couple auctions...

Auction #1: 12 rolls of Kodak Plus-X 125 film $24.75 after shipping.

Auction #2: Patterson Universal Tank with two 35mm reels, Kodak Black & White Darkroom DATAGUIDE, Delta 1 Filter Funnel, Samigon thermometer, two mixing sticks, Yankee squeege/sponge,two stainless steel clips, and 2 litre/2000 mL beaker for ONLY $12.50 including shipping!

So I guess all I need now is a lightproof changing bag, chemicals, and maybe a couple storage bottles??? Anything else I may need?

[another view]

Anything else I may need?

Two sets of film drying clips (since you'll be able to develop two rolls at a time). There are a few different styles but this type worked well for me. The bottom end is weighted to keep the negative strip from curling. Also, you'll need some way to store the negatives after they have dried and been cut. I used pages that go into a binder like this. Some people recommend using a squeege (made specifically for film) to get most of the water off of the film before you hang it to dry, but I just ran it between my index and middle fingers. Wet your fingers first to get any dust or chemicals off and don't really squeeze them together, they just need to touch the film on both sides.

[Xia_Ke]

Thanks av The auction I won comes with 2 clips and a squeege already, so those are taken care of. Hadn't even thought about storage sleeves for my film after I'm done. Thanks! Do you know if there is anywhere that sells photography log books? Something to keep track of exposure/developing info to track progress and make corrections. I know I could use a regular notebook but would be easier if there was something pre-setup for just such a thing. I've also been doing some reading on different developers. I'm going to stick with kodak stuff since that what all my film is and is easily available. I've narrowed it down to D-76 or HC-110. Anyone have experience wit either of these? Any advantages to using liquid over powder or vice versa?

[another view]

I've narrowed it down to D-76 or HC-110. Anyone have experience wit either of these? Any advantages to using liquid over powder or vice versa?

I keep forgetting to point you towards The Massive Dev Chart Select the film and developer, then it will tell you suggested developing times based on the ISO speed you shot the film at. Great resource.

I did a little bit at first with Tmax 400 film and developer but really liked the Tri-X look and D-76 is the classic developer to use with it. D-76 is a powder but it's easy to mix, just be sure that your water is at the temperature specified on the envelope. Measure the water, stick it in the microwave and use an instant read thermometer to be sure (get as close as you possibly can, which is true for the whole process). Since the water hasn't touched the chemistry yet, you can just use what you have in the kitchen but anything that has had film chemistry in it should not be used for food preparation again.

HC110 and D-76 are probably the two I would work with most often if/when I get back into it. I've never tried HC110 but seen really nice results especially at high ISO speeds. I'd start with one type of film, one ISO speed and one developer and get comfortable with it (as in consistent) before trying anything else. Then change one variable at a time so you can really see how that change affects your negatives. Most of the time I shot Tri-X at ISO250 and developed normally at ISO400 for a little extra shadow detail.

Plenty of things you can experiment with when you're ready for it. Try shooting at 1600 and develop as recommended (for that speed). Maybe you decide you want more shadow detail so you shoot at 1200 and develop at 1600. Then, you don't like the grain with D-76 so you try HC110. The list goes on...

As far as log books go, I'm not sure of anything pre-printed. I'm thinking that you could set up a spreadsheet pretty easily to do that, but somehow storing traditional film developing notes on a computer seems a little wierd!

One last thing - what about a timer? I had an old Gralab that was part of a bunch of stuff I bought on ebay too - you'll know it when you see it. You can use anything that's fairly accurate and counts seconds (like a digital watch) but it's really convenient to use one of these timers. Later on, you can have it control an enlarger too.

[Xia_Ke]

AV I can't thank you enough for all the help!

I checked that link you posted but, doesn't seem to be as in-depth as Kodak's info sheet which lists times for various temps. I haven't decided which developer I'll end up using but, I have 16 rolls of Kodak Plus-X 125 now (or I will after the 12 rolls I just bought arrives) and liked the results I was seeing on PBase so I'll stick with that for a bit but I also have a few rolls of Tri-X 400 to play with too. Now on the reading I have been doing, it seems D-76 is recommended more if you plan to replenish and HC-110 is recommended more if you plan on single use. I'm not sure which route I want to start off with. Seems to me a single use method would provide more stable and predictable results which should be better for learning with. Yeah, as I'm sitting here typing this I can't help but think I really need to stop over thinking things...LOL

[another view]

it seems D-76 is recommended more if you plan to replenish and HC-110 is recommended more if you plan on single use

Glad to help! I never replenished D-76 but I wasn't doing a huge volume of it. I also never re-used it. I had a two-reel tank (35mm) and used a 1:1 dilution, so I'd take 250ml of the stock solution (which is what you get when you mix an envelope of D-76 with water per directions on the D-76 envelope) and add 250ml of distilled water. Might have been 230 of each, something like that. Trying to remember, but that was about 8 or 10 rolls of film per small envelope of D-76 - does that sound right? No problem to re-use fixer or stop bath, but all of this stuff has a shelf life - the Kodak book probably has a recommendation on when to change it. Trying to remember...

One more thought about mixing the 1:1 developer and water - buy the distilled water ahead of time so it's at room temperature which hopefully is about the same temperature you need for developing. If it's not, you can warm it in a water bath but that takes a little time (plastic dishpan filled with tap water of the temperature you want the chemistry at, set the beakers/containers in the dishpan). In the winter, buy the distilled water a day or so ahead of time - makes life just a little easier.

I'm sure you could get by with re-using the D-76 if you developed film using the stock solution (see Massive Dev Chart for times) or using 1:1 but that would mean another container of chemistry. That seemed like a variable to me - not knowing the strength of the re-used developer - and it wasn't one I got around to trying out.

You know, this thread has been a big help for me too. I haven't thought about this stuff in awhile and I guess it all comes back. So I can either thank or blame you!

[Xia_Ke]

...So I can either thank or blame you!

Either works for me ...LOL

Okay, one last (I swear) question. Do the bottles I'll use for my stock solution need to be lightproof or just airtight?

I'm getting so pumped to try this! All apprehension is pretty much out the door after doing a bit of reading and research. Now I just wanna play...LOL

Thanks again
Aaron

[another view]

Do the bottles I'll use for my stock solution need to be lightproof or just airtight?

Best for them to block light as well as be air tight. Something like this and they come in a few different sizes. I can't think of anything else to tell you, but if you have any other questions I'll try to answer. I think you're in good shape - give it a try and let us know how it goes!

[freygr]

Nothing to worry about. You don't even need a dark room, unless you plan on making your own prints. Get a changing bag, film developing tank, a thermometer, and some chemistry, and your all set.

Not sure what to tell you about the color film. I have never done that, and from what I've read, it's more difficult than B&W. As far as getting what you need, film equipment is pretty cheap on ebay. You should be able to order the chemistry from Adorama or find it locally. If I remember correctly, B&H won't ship the chemistry.

Color is just MORE steps, and the timing is a little more critical as with the temperature. The best way is to keep all the solutions in a tub with the correct temperature running water along with the film canister between agitations, and the agitation is allot more importation that with B&W, Most of all the color slides I shot when I was in the service I developed my self.

[Xia_Ke]

Thanks guys

[Xia_Ke]

Oh good god! Let me get this straight... I need to do this in a bag, where I can't see what I'm doing, and I can't touch or crinkle the film in the process???? Good thing I won't have funds to order chemicals and stuff until the end of the month. I'm gonna need LOTS of practice