Canon EOS Elan 7N(30v) Vs Nikon N80 (F80)

[ajuk]

I was playing with a friends Dynax 40 the other day and I thought WOW it was so light the AF was so fast (although the lens itself wasn't) and the features like the flash popping up automatically when the light wasn’t good enough had me drooling over it. OK that is one of the very automatic futures but I don’t have to use it all the time. I Also went and played with an F80 in Dixons and WOW it was so quiet.
I tend to miss too many shots with my OM-10,
I know that primes produce better results but so does 100 speed film, and I found that I got better results with 400 speed film, the reason was that 100 speed was so slow it was counter productive, I got more shots with the 400 speed. And as I have seen 400 speed film is pretty good these days. I get thought lots of Superia 400 and XP2. Same with prime lenses I don’t get the shot because I cant get close enough Well not with out getting spotted.
Also these cameras are so much quicker to use, no need to spend time focusing, and winding, I find I am not very good at it and I missed a really great split second moment the other day while getting focus.
I will be buying a Nikon or Canon Prime eventually (An AF 50mm 1.8 just like the Zuiko I have now) But I zoom Will Be a good start as I don't have that much money, I intend to keep my OM-10 (sell the OM-30) and use that for landscapes until I can afford some modern Primes.

I don’t think I want to go with Minolta, because the camera I buy now will probably be the mount I will stick with forever. I was thinking more of the Nikon F80 or Canon EOS 30v because I can get it so cheap on the net at the moment (although some of the F80 tend to be N80s smuggled from aboard)

So anybody have any suggestions. I have also noticed that even thought the 30v doesn't cost a lot more new second hand it is a lot more expensive. I suppose the main features I want are Fast AF, and AF assist light, A very wide range of ISO speeds (for Pushing) A longer metered exposure (my OM-10 gives up after 8 Seconds no matter what) and a good lens selection.

[racingpinarello]

I will try to keep it rather simple, but I really like the N80. I used it for so many of my best shots and it worked great.

When I switched to Canon digital, I had to leave my N80. IMO, the Elan 7 is not equal to the N80. In the longrun, I knew that I would be switching to digital so I did the brand switch and haven't regret that decision.

Both cameras are good, but look ahead and think of your future camera needs. Pick the camera based on future LENS needs and digital camera wants. Cameras are replaceable, but lenses are the true tool and you don't want to paint yourself into the corner.

Loren

[ajuk]

I'm not sure if will have digital camera needs (I have a compact) I shoot B&W and will be taking the pictures into the darkroom. I am more into "arty" stuff with high speed B&W film, I think thought if money was no option I would have a DSLR just for the sake of having one. I am what they call a "filmie"

[Michael Fanelli]

I don't think I want to go with Minolta, because the camera I buy now will probably be the mount I will stick with forever.

FWIW, Minolta has jumped into the market in a big way. Also, just a few days ago, they signed a major agreement with Kodak to co-design and co-manufacture Minolta-mount cameras. There lenses, old and new, will be around for a very long time.

Pentax has a larger lens selection than any other camera maker. The first K-mounts still work on modern cameras and their glass is every bit as good as Nikon and Canon. You could find some excellent deals here.

[another view]

Have you ever used a Nikon F100? They've really dropped a lot in price for good used ones. I just sold mine for a little over $400 US. It was used and not a museum piece, but in very good condition. Here in the states, $400 is a little more than the price of a new N80 but the difference in performance between the two is as much as you see between the OM10 and the N80.

[Franglais]

I'm not sure if will have digital camera needs (I have a compact) I shoot B&W and will be taking the pictures into the darkroom. I am more into "arty" stuff with high speed B&W film, I think thought if money was no option I would have a DSLR just for the sake of having one. I am what they call a "filmie"

For what you want to do a F75 is just as good as a F80 or a F100 and much much cheaper (I have all three cameras and I used to use XP2 and Sensia 400 and primes).

Right now I'm shooting almost all digital. Now I've got the hang of it the results are usually as good or better than I could do with film, and far cheaper. (I'm currently pondering on the fact that with what I used to spend on film + dev in two years I could buy a D2X).

Charles

[ajuk]

For what you want to do a F75 is just as good as a F80 or a F100 and much much cheaper (I have all three cameras and I used to use XP2 and Sensia 400 and primes).

Right now I'm shooting almost all digital. Now I've got the hang of it the results are usually as good or better than I could do with film, and far cheaper. (I'm currently pondering on the fact that with what I used to spend on film + dev in two years I could buy a D2X).

Charles

Grr I really thought I could start this thread without needing an excuse to want a film camera.

I Suppose I just like the look of film, Its just excites me can't wait to get into the darkroom, Digital has its purpose and I Intend to use it, But I have decided that I want to spend my money on a film camera and I intend to go to college part time inorder to get into a darkroom and print my own.
I started photography seriously with Digital BTW, I went to film origionally as an expirement, after finding OM10s going for loose change, and I fell in love. I Still use digital for when I want to mess about in PS and when I sell stuff on on eBay and when I need a point and shoot and for bracketing, But in the end of the day its all about perceived quality. I guess what singed it from me was when (after shooting film for a while) got my first roll of proper (not XP2) B&W film and prints back form Ilford, WOW that was a real jaw drop moment! I am the equvelant of A DJ who still uses vinyl me thinks, or a Painter who uses egg based paint. Hey if they stoped making film I would learn how to coat my own glass plates.

[Franglais]

Grr I really thought I could start this thread without needing an excuse to want a film camera.

I Suppose I just like the look of film, Its just excites me can't wait to get into the darkroom, Digital has its purpose and I Intend to use it, But I have decided that I want to spend my money on a film camera and I intend to go to college part time inorder to get into a darkroom and print my own.
I started photography seriously with Digital BTW, I went to film origionally as an expirement, after finding OM10s going for loose change, and I fell in love. I Still use digital for when I want to mess about in PS and when I sell stuff on on eBay and when I need a point and shoot and for bracketing, But in the end of the day its all about perceived quality. I guess what singed it from me was when (after shooting film for a while) got my first roll of proper (not XP2) B&W film and prints back form Ilford, WOW that was a real jaw drop moment! I am the equvelant of A DJ who still uses vinyl me thinks, or a Painter who uses egg based paint. Hey if they stoped making film I would learn how to coat my own glass plates.

Well I like the look of XP2, the lack of grain, smooth tones.. And I like Delta 100 for its sharpness and graphic quality, NPH for skin tones, Velvia for dramatic landscapes. Each film has it's own look which you like or not for a given subject. Digital has its own look which I'm trying out on some of my regular subjects. Its up you to choose and master. If you want to get the best from black-and-white then you must do your own darkroom work.

Get an F75 and a late-model 50mm f1.8. Great combination apart from the viewfinder which is rather small. But it's cheap.

Charles

[Speed]

I will try to keep it rather simple, but I really like the N80. I used it for so many of my best shots and it worked great.

When I switched to Canon digital, I had to leave my N80. IMO, the Elan 7 is not equal to the N80. In the longrun, I knew that I would be switching to digital so I did the brand switch and haven't regret that decision.

Both cameras are good, but look ahead and think of your future camera needs. Pick the camera based on future LENS needs and digital camera wants. Cameras are replaceable, but lenses are the true tool and you don't want to paint yourself into the corner.

Loren

I started with a N80 because I knew it would do what I wanted, and that I could learn/grow/expand with it. It is an awesome camera for the price, and it has never let me down. I still have this camera and carry it with me practically every day.

[Outdoorsman]

Before this gets any further, I must speak up for the Canon. I currently shoot the Elan 7N.
What a camera!
They gave it the same AF system as the pro bodies. It's super light. It has metal skin. It's also the quietest SLR that Canon makes. No loud clack here, only a soft click/whir. You get all the bells and whistles like mirror lockup and film leader position after rewind (in or out), ability to move the AF operation from the shutter release to a rear button, exp.comp through a rear thumb dial, etc. It is compatible with all the current and previous flashes (I use the discontinued 420 EZ with no problems ever) and supports Canon's E-TTL II which is very accurate for flash metering; you can use FP flash with the EX-series flashes.
4 FPS and 7 AF points means sports (with a good USM lens) are a snap, so to speak. Flash exposure compensation is performed in-camera, meaning you don't have to mess with the unit any. The list of useful features is long.
As for acutal performance, this camera doesn't take bad pictures. I have been able to force it to, though . I've put it through nearly every imaginable environment and shooting situation, from caves to snowstorms to the beach, backpacking, nature/landscape, portraits, macro, events, sports, 100-degree-plus to below freezing, you name it. Everything but underwater! The metering is very accurate and the AF is fast and reliable. Metering range and AF range are a little lackluster in the specs, but I've not been limited by it yet. The only limitations I see are the size of the grip, which is too small for some hands, mine included. I insisted on buying the BP-300 with it, and this extends the grip to accomodate larger hands, while providing a vertical grip with AE lock button and shutter release. Unfortunately, Canon didn't give the BP-300 a command dial, so it isn't a true vertical grip IMO. But it does convert the camera to AA power, rather than the spendy (and not always available) CR123A batteries. Also, the viewfinder is kind of hard to get your eye into, but I have largish nose, so this might be my problem and not the camera's...
All in all, however, this is a badass camera for the price. I would say to give it a serious look. For about $400 at B&H you can have the body, the grip, and the RC-1 wireless remote. And you're ready to rock. Try the 28-105mm f/3.5-4.5 USM II lens for about $250 with hood and a filter. It's not the best lens but it will do you well for all-around stuff. I use it and I'm not at all unhappy.
That's my Shameless Canon Plug for the day. Good luck!
-O-

[TEMPESTboy]

I'll add one thing with the Canon. If you want to spend a little more money for the 7NE, you'll get the eye controlled focus. While it doesn't work for some people, I find it very helpful in my EOS 3. Give it a try and it might push you to buy the Canon.

[ajuk]

Before this gets any further, I must speak up for the Canon. I currently shoot the Elan 7N.
What a camera!
They gave it the same AF system as the pro bodies. It's super light. It has metal skin. It's also the quietest SLR that Canon makes. No loud clack here, only a soft click/whir. You get all the bells and whistles like mirror lockup and film leader position after rewind (in or out), ability to move the AF operation from the shutter release to a rear button, exp.comp through a rear thumb dial, etc. It is compatible with all the current and previous flashes (I use the discontinued 420 EZ with no problems ever) and supports Canon's E-TTL II which is very accurate for flash metering; you can use FP flash with the EX-series flashes.
4 FPS and 7 AF points means sports (with a good USM lens) are a snap, so to speak. Flash exposure compensation is performed in-camera, meaning you don't have to mess with the unit any. The list of useful features is long.
As for acutal performance, this camera doesn't take bad pictures. I have been able to force it to, though . I've put it through nearly every imaginable environment and shooting situation, from caves to snowstorms to the beach, backpacking, nature/landscape, portraits, macro, events, sports, 100-degree-plus to below freezing, you name it. Everything but underwater! The metering is very accurate and the AF is fast and reliable. Metering range and AF range are a little lackluster in the specs, but I've not been limited by it yet. The only limitations I see are the size of the grip, which is too small for some hands, mine included. I insisted on buying the BP-300 with it, and this extends the grip to accomodate larger hands, while providing a vertical grip with AE lock button and shutter release. Unfortunately, Canon didn't give the BP-300 a command dial, so it isn't a true vertical grip IMO. But it does convert the camera to AA power, rather than the spendy (and not always available) CR123A batteries. Also, the viewfinder is kind of hard to get your eye into, but I have largish nose, so this might be my problem and not the camera's...
All in all, however, this is a badass camera for the price. I would say to give it a serious look. For about $400 at B&H you can have the body, the grip, and the RC-1 wireless remote. And you're ready to rock. Try the 28-105mm f/3.5-4.5 USM II lens for about $250 with hood and a filter. It's not the best lens but it will do you well for all-around stuff. I use it and I'm not at all unhappy.
That's my Shameless Canon Plug for the day. Good luck!
-O-

Whats better about the USM lenses? (I notice that on B&H it comes with a simalar lens that doesn't have the letter USM in it)

[Outdoorsman]

Whats better about the USM lenses? (I notice that on B&H it comes with a simalar lens that doesn't have the letter USM in it)

Canon's website probably explains this better than I can, but here goes.
USM, despite PhotoShop users' acronym for UnSharp Mask, is Canon's UltraSonic Motor. This is a pretty common AF drive system found in lenses made by many companies, just under different names, like Sigma's HSM (HyperSonic Motor) or Nikon's Silent Wave, etc.
This system is a very good alternative to a standard AF drive that uses a micromotor linked to the focusing element via a gear train. This system can have slack in it, making AF clunky and not quite so accurate. It's also slower and noisier, and you cannot override AF without either swtiching to MF or possibly hurting the lens.
The USM (HSM, etc) uses a nearly or totally silent ring-type motor that has no slack and is faster and more accurate, since it uses no gears. My 28-105 USM is so quiet I have to put my ear next to the lens to hear it focus. When shooting I can't hear it at all. It's very quick.
And finally, the USM lens gives you full-time manual focus override. This means you can touch up focus after the camera focuses in AF mode without worrying about stripping or jumping gears.
This is definitely the kind of lens you want. I bought the 7N without the kit lens and opted to buy something better.
If there's anything wrong here or if I left anything out, anyone is welcome to correct me.
Hope this helps.
-O-