Can digital SLR replace my methods ?

[DBenz]

If I describe my typical photography could someone please advise me on whether or not a digital SLR setup would be possible, perhaps by knowing that their particular camera flashgun setup would handle it. Camera shop suggested Canon EOS 300 but then FujiS3 told better for shadow detail, dont know what flashguns and lenses in that case. I am Canon man really or would consider Nikon as trust lenses !

I currently shoot mostly transparency film (Kodachrome 200 pro was my choice until it was discontinued giving true life colours and good shadow detail unlike Ektachrome little shadow and Fuji no good for recreating true colours (tested all types and very surprised/disappointed at this )

I use a Canon AE1 body with three manual focus lenses
FD 50mm Canon F1.4 to f22 lens, depth of field lines and min focus 0.45m (1.4ft)
Hoya 38 –70mm f3.5 to f22 minfoc 1m (3ft)
Tamron Adaptall 2 80-210mm f3.5 to f22 min foc 1m (3ft)

AE1 I always use on manual, preferring to meter on a Kodak grey card or use a wallace expodisc (frosted disc attached to lens then aimed at light source and meter that) to give me my correct settings. I always seem to be photographing non average subjects and don’t trust auto exposure on them.

I use flashgun off camera for most of my scale model photography that I specialise in at shows, often with two guns, one held 3ft above subject by a willing volunteer and the other, a carboot sale Sunpak fired via light sensor giving fill in flash 1 stop less than main. F16 is minimum and f22 ideal for photographing such subjects from about 3ft to get wingtip to wingtip in focus.
Flashguns are not dedicated connected, a simple PC cord triggers gun and I use a certain aperture for a certain distance based upon past results to guarantee correct exposure each time. I photograph down level with the aircraft so again don’t trust auto exposure from knowing that the fuselage is correctly exposed and do not allow it chance to think that the area beyond that may form the bulk of the scene, and expose for that so overexposing my subject.
I focus on nearest wingtip then farthest feature visible of the subject and set the lens up so that these two distances are between the aperture I wish to use, this depth of field guaranteeing is crucial.

Sometimes circumstances and time or lack of assistance mean mounting the main flashgun on camera, here I use a bounce shoe to angle the gun down over the camera lens trying to get the light source as close to the lens body as possible without being seen especially by the shorter lenses. This puts light under aircraft wings, a ring flash gives the wrong lighting patern , there needs to be some shadow and ring flash gives zero !

I approach the buying of a decent digital SLR with trepidation but also excitement, no more waiting for slides to be developed, no more scanning slides and losing detail in shadows, see if I have the photo correct immediately etc.

I would appreciate help please on what would be best for me. With the cost of the kit I cannot go buying and trying ditto ditto until I get it right !

I like quality feel to lenses, easy but smooth and positive action, hold their settings, only really ever consider Canon or Nikon as contenders I guess, the lens is as important as the body so not sure what’s possible if go for a Fuji !

I would like to be able to point and shoot, not waste time sussing distances and apertures. Focus on those two points and have camera work out correct distance for depth of field, and tell flashguns to stop emitting light when correct exposure achieved. Of course with flashgun held above the subject it isn’t the same distance as the camera has just worked out for the subjects hyperfocal distance, best point of focus for getting both points focused on into focus.
Centre point focusing essential as a turn on option.
Any help appreciated
Thanks

DBenz

[Trevor Ash]

I would like to be able to point and shoot, not waste time sussing distances and apertures. Focus on those two points and have camera work out correct distance for depth of field, and tell flashguns to stop emitting light when correct exposure achieved. Of course with flashgun held above the subject it isn’t the same distance as the camera has just worked out for the subjects hyperfocal distance, best point of focus for getting both points focused on into focus.
Centre point focusing essential as a turn on option.

Nice post DBenz. It was fun to read your approach to model photography. Here's my take on things:

1. You have fairly difficult subject matter that today's autoflashes are going to have a hard time with. Mostly, the glossy nature of some of the models combined with the closeness in which you place your lights is going to be the biggest problem.

2. Lenses and lens choices aren't going to be a problem. There are affordable and expensive one's that'll all get the job done. If you go with Canon, I would already recommend the 50mm macro lens and probably a macro lens with a longer focal length such as Tamron's excellent 90mm f2.8 macro.

3. I'm not positive, but as long as you have some power adjustment capability with the flash units you should be able to still use your current flash guns on a newer Canon body with the use of a hot shot adapter. You should look into this because Canon's flash units are very expensive and it woudln't make sense for you to upgrade to them unless you absolutely needed to. Plus, you'll likely find the E-TTL system very frustrating for your kind of work. The reason I mention power adjustment is so that you can easily dial down the power of the flash so that you're not forced to used apertures of f/32-f/22 unless you actually want to.

4. Check into the EOS-300 to see if it allows you to set only the center focus point. I have some doubts that it does. You'll probably always use the camera in manual focus mode however.

5. The camera isn't going to figure out the aperture that gives you the appropriate dof. That's a creative thing more than a technical thing. Canon does have some models (the higher end models) that have a auto dof mode (there's two different kinds of a-dof so make sure you understand each and which one your camera may have). I've found the higher end one useful at times but with digital it's less important since you can see the results so easily in the view finder.

6. It sounds like you're probably going to want DOF preview feature. Check to make sure the camera you want to buy has it, although it probably woudln't help too much at the apertures you're using anyway since it might be so dark.

[Franglais]

I'm afraid that digital SLR technology just isn't up to what you want (yet).

The digital sensor has about as much latitude as a transparency film i.e. none. When it burns out the highlights it does it in a disgraceful, unnatural way that doesn't look right. The only camera that doesn't have this problem seems to be the Fuji S3, but nobody has much experience with it yet.

Another problem is that flash technology has taken a leap backwards because real-time off-the-film TTL flash metering doesn't work with shiny digital sensors. Manufacturers are obliged to adopt other methods involving pre-flashes read by the normal TTL light meter, combined with the distance of the subject etc. Nikon's i-TTL method is the best but the Fuji S3 doesn't support it.

I had my own methods with film+F100+SB28 but basically when you go to digital you have to start from scratch, understand thoroughly how the automatic system works and then build your methods around that.

Charles

[Trevor Ash]

I won't disagree with Franglais, but everything he mentioned can be overcome or compensated for. The most difficult would be the lattitude of digital vs. negative film but in the kind of environment you're talking about you should be able to control exposure very well (just not with the new-fangled flashes with the fancy E-TTL type stuff). If you're main subject was outdoor nature photography then it would be of much greater concern to you than what I believe it should be now.

[another view]

I focus on nearest wingtip then farthest feature visible of the subject and set the lens up so that these two distances are between the aperture I wish to use, this depth of field guaranteeing is crucial.

First off, yes - this is a great way to ask a question, tons of detail so we know how to help!

I think what you're saying above is that you're using hyperfocal focusing to pick your focus point - is this correct? It would be the best way to do it. One possible advantage with the 1.5x and 1.6x DSLR's is that you'll use a wider focal length for the same field of view - which will have slightly more depth of field. Maybe you can open up a stop and still have the same DOF, or gain more at the same aperture.

I don't think that DSLR's are really there yet, completely auto TTL flash just isn't perfect. It's come a long ways and Nikon's latest iTTL (on the D70 and D2 models) is really good. But not perfect from what I've seen (no personal experience unlike Charles (Franglais) who has a D70 with the latest flash.

You still may be able to do what you want with film though - Nikon's F100 and F5 have an almost foolproof TTL flash system, even with the older non-digital ready flashes (like the SB28) which can be bought used pretty inexpensively. Of course you're still shooting film so you haven't solved all the problems yet. Don't mean to sound like a Nikon commercial, that's just what I know.

I've also got a Fuji S2 and it's been great - but not anywhere near as good as the film bodies with flash. The S3 uses Nikon's DX flashes which are better than the original TTL but not by much. Nikon doesn't use it anymore, so I guess they let Fuji have it...

Using an expodisc with digital will give you correct white balance too - shoot with one on using the strobes and you're in good shape.

[Franglais]

I won't disagree with Franglais, but everything he mentioned can be overcome or compensated for. The most difficult would be the lattitude of digital vs. negative film but in the kind of environment you're talking about you should be able to control exposure very well (just not with the new-fangled flashes with the fancy E-TTL type stuff). If you're main subject was outdoor nature photography then it would be of much greater concern to you than what I believe it should be now.

I was thinking this was outdoors. If its in a studio then manual flashes should be no problem and being able to see the results immediately should be a great help. If you have complete control over the lighting then a normal digital camera will be no more difficult to use than slide film - no need to consider the S3.

Charles

[DBenz]

Thanks Trevor, Franglais and ‘Another View’, much appreciate the help. Lots to respond to so here we go.

If you go with Canon, I would already recommend the 50mm macro lens and probably a macro lens with a longer focal length such as Tamron's excellent 90mm f2.8 macro.

I hope I can restrict my money to a couple of lenses taking me from , in old money, 28mm through to 300mm and with minimum focus 3ft (1m) or closer. 1.5m is not viable as I would have to balance on tip toes and a brick or two to photo down onto tables !

use your current flash guns on a newer Canon body with the use of a hot shot adapter

Unfortunately they are not dedicated and I was looking forward to not having to worry about distances and apertures if possible. Not sure how I would work Digital cameras with a set fixed light output as such,

You have fairly difficult subject matter that today's autoflashes are going to have a hard time with. Mostly, the glossy nature > (actually most if not all are matt or semi matt)

Perhaps you could explain what problems I might hit with dedicated cords and flashgun sets that I had hoped would talk to each other. Are we saying forget that and I establish as before a best aperture for flash at 3ft and go with that once more ?

you'll likely find the E-TTL system very frustrating for your kind of work.

I would be interested to know how it would ‘not work’ being curious.

The reason I mention power adjustment is so that you can easily dial down the power of the flash so that you're not forced to used apertures of f/32-f/22 unless you actually want to.

Actually f22 is ideal for dof if I can achieve it with 35mm film, though lenses are at their best with mid range apertures, I understand DSLR’s give more dof so perhaps I could drop down a step or two to optimise quality, is this possible I wonder. I only have click type settings to alter power, nothing intelligent, is that ok ? If I stay with the old 388SW then I would need to have a PC socket (I see the Nikon D70 doesn’t even have that, but perhaps a hotshoe attachment would enable the PC cord to function ? Trouble there is when I attach the 388 to the hotshoe and angle it out over lens there might be no way of firing it unless the single pin in base of my bounce show and the surrounding metal plate still communicates in the traditional way for firing,. I currently take the lead from the upper part of the bounce item and plug it into the PC socket.

Check into the EOS-300 to see if it allows you to set only the center focus point. I have some doubts that it does. You'll probably always use the camera in manual focus mode however.

It looks as if you can choose centre focus point, but if focus requires a contrasty subject then as you say, I might need manual. Would manual then work with the Canon 300D auto depth of field feature. I don’t know otherwise how I am to quickly set the lens up otherwise with no dof lines on it. When I ask others with non dof line lenses they say they hope for the best, sorry but that’s not for me and fiddling around isn’t either. I can set up on my lens and be done and gone in seconds. This aspect is worrying me but seeing the 300D with auto dof and no mention of that on the Nikon D70 which I have spent the day reading every little feature of on dpreview makes me lean towards the 300D, then I start to read of AF single mode not manually selectable unlike D70 and need to get my head round the table I see in the review of what works with what programs, (being honest I got totally lost there...perhaps someone could enlighten me...does that table http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos300d/page6.asp mean I can do my two lots of focusing and autoDOF ? )...and do I want a program with my single AF and A dof , perhaps A dof is a program, cant seem to make sense of this….feel I am slipping yet understood all the D70 stuff today !

The camera isn't going to figure out the aperture that gives you the appropriate dof. That's a creative thing more than a technical thing

I am told that if I focus on nearest then farthest points the 300D has auto dof to give me the hyperfocal distance, with lack of dof lines on the lens I would need that function, I assume it sets focus to the optimum distance then holds it there.

Canon does have some models (the higher end models) that have an auto dof mode (there's two different kinds of a-dof so make sure you understand each and which one your camera may have)

Canon 300D says A-DEP, I shall also look at the 20D, boy does all this comparing take time ! I shall check further.

I've found the higher end one useful at times but with digital it's less important since you can see the results so easily in the view finder.

I would want to get it right first time as I am hoping to quicken the photo session and dof lines meant success first time.

It sounds like you're probably going to want DOF preview feature

Yes !

Check to make sure the camera you want to buy has it, although it probably woudln't help too much at the apertures you're using anyway since it might be so dark.

Nikon D70 has it, cant see mention for 300D and that’s the one with A-DEP so perhaps no need ?

Aaaah Right
I was thinking this was outdoors. If its in a studio

Well not quite, indoors at model shows is the one big usage of it.

If you have complete control over the lighting

Actually two flashguns hand held !

First off, yes - this is a great way to ask a question, tons of detail so we know how to help!

Always fear too much text frightens people off but it needs it to describe methods I’m afraid so glad its ok to do so.

I think what you're saying above is that you're using hyperfocal focusing to pick your focus point - is this correct?

Yes.

One possible advantage with the 1.5x and 1.6x DSLR's is that you'll use a wider focal length for the same field of view - which will have slightly more depth of field.

Perhaps I can use f8 or 11 and get better images as looking at D70 quality drops off at e.g. f22

I don't think that DSLR's are really there yet, completely auto TTL flash just isn't perfect.

So lens seeing results of flashes onto model doesn’t tell them to turn off as one would wish, is this correct ?

It's come a long ways and Nikon's latest iTTL (on the D70 and D2 models) is really good. But not perfect from what I've seen (no personal experience unlike Charles (Franglais) who has a D70 with the latest flash.

Aha…I was reading up on the D70, is it a contender for me Franglais ?

You still may be able to do what you want with film though

I really must go digital, cost and waiting time of 12 days and the unknown results with trannies I simply cant live with.

I've also got a Fuji S2 and it's been great - but not anywhere near as good as the film bodies with flash.

Do I get the feeling that digital is not all its made out to be, but film and processing is such a pain now and I have lost the only decent pro slide film to the digital era pressures on labs. Used to be 3 days turnaround and non Kodachrome is crap, having tried them all.

The S3 uses Nikon's DX flashes which are better than the original TTL but not by much.

Someone suggested FujiS3 for better shadow detail. The DPReview has a pic of a bike and after NikonCapture 4.1 out came decent shadow detail…wow ! so perhaps S3 not vital.

Spent the entire weekend reading up on the D70 as suggested by a friend to think along those lines, but has it all I need, sounds v impressive but is it for me and my subject matter, it even says has less diopter setting on viewfinder than D100 its now -1.6 at most at the minus range, now why do that...I am -2, no surely they wouldnt exclude a normal slight eye disorder in folk, -2 is nothing out of the ordinary really and have used a -2 for 20 yrs on my canon)...introduce a lovely camera and deny many glasses wearers of using it,,, the 300D I tried was ok by twiddling the dial. Wish I knew what camera to go for now...300D has spots but no aberrations unlike what I see in DPreview on D70. D70 flashgun communication better ?.,...but no Auto dof, quite stumped and whole weekend spent staring at camera stuff on screen
DBenz

[another view]

Couple of things:

I don't use TTL with my S2 at all, just A mode like you'd have on a Vivitar 283. Not horrible but not near-perfect like the F100 +SB28 either.

F22 on any 35mm or DX format lens can easily be soft; this is a function of the optics of the lens though - not the camera body.

[Franglais]

You have some fairly specific requirements (diopter adjustment etc. ) and nothing right now seems to suit you exactly? I advise you to wait for just a few weeks and see what is announced at PMA. Lots of announcements are expected and you might find something that is closer to what you need. Probably replacements for the D100 and the DRebel, perhaps new models from Pentax and Konica-Minolta..

Charles