Battery life and solutions.

[Richard Hole]

Hi

I am trying to work out what batteries and camera to buy.

A problem is I heard some rechargeable batteries do not retain their charge for long if the camera has not been used for 6 months or so. It is hard to know how often I would use the camera and 6 or 12 months may easily pass before it is used again. However, when I do use it, it would be good to have batteries with some charge and be ready in the camera. I don’t want to replace or recharge batteries most times I use the camera. I heard some lithium batteries can cost perhaps $30 and may only last about 2 years even if the camera is not used often. Therefore AA batteries may be more economical as 2 rechargeable ones may only cost about $5.

So is it true that non rechargeable batteries normally discharge at a much slower rate than rechargeables?

Roughly how long would an average rechargeable be effective for if it was fully charged and put in a camera that was not used? I assume it would have to have well over 0 % to be usable.

What batteries would take longer to discharge?

Are there any good cameras that are affordable where the batteries can be internally charged inside the camera? In theory this could be done to any camera if wires were connected to the terminals and if the other end of the wires were connected to a slow charging battery charger. What do you think of that idea?

Your help is appreciated,
Regards Richard.

[Franglais]

RH> I am trying to work out what batteries and camera to buy.

Almost all cameras nowadays come with a rechargable battery included, which is often specific to the camera. In a few cases you can put on a battery pack which allows you to use AA cells. My D200 has this feature. I'll use it as an example.

RH> A problem is I heard some rechargeable batteries do not retain their charge for long if the camera has not been used for 6 months or so.

True. However the rechargable Li-ion cells used in most cameras hold their charge longer than the NiMh AA sized cells.

RH> I heard some lithium batteries can cost perhaps $30 and may only last about 2 years even if the camera is not used often. Therefore AA batteries may be more economical as 2 rechargeable ones may only cost about $5.

I haven't heard that about Li-ion cells. The D200 has special Li-ion cells that allow you to see the precise charge of each one (there are two in the battery pack). I use only Li-ion now.

RH> So is it true that non rechargeable batteries normally discharge at a much slower rate than rechargeables?

Yes. But they cause more pollution because you throw them away after use

RH> Roughly how long would an average rechargeable be effective for if it was fully charged and put in a camera that was not used? I assume it would have to have well over 0 % to be usable.

An Li-ion cell will take several months to go flat, whereas a NiMh is more like weeks (in my experience)

RH> What batteries would take longer to discharge?

From best to worst:

1. Non-rechargable AA battery (best)
2. Li-ion rechargable cell
3. NiMh AA cell (worst)

RH> Are there any good cameras that are affordable where the batteries can be internally charged inside the camera? In theory this could be done to any camera if wires were connected to the terminals and if the other end of the wires were connected to a slow charging battery charger. What do you think of that idea?

I think it sounds horrible. You will be wasting electricity for months on end and contributing to global warming. It takes a couple of hours to fully charge a Li-ion cell.

I think that you should buy a second Li-ion cell for your camera and keep it seperate from the camera. It will discharge more slowly than the one in the camera. Note that with most DSLR's the camera is using electricity even when turned off to maintain user parameters in RAM and allow a fast start-up. If you remove the in-camera battery then it will use charge from a second built-in Li-ion cell but this does not have infinite capacity.

Charles

[another view]

If you're using a camera that infrequently, look for something that will take a lithium battery. I have used Alkaline, Lithium and NiMh rechargeable batteries with photo gear and have the same experience as Charles. The Lithium batteries are a little lighter in weight (not a concern for most people), handle cold weather very well and will hold a charge for years. I bought some Lithium AA's a year or two ago with a 2010 expiration date. A fully charged NiMh that's not used will be dead in a couple weeks, so it's a bad choice (but a great choice for heavy use if you're not in very cold temperatures). Alkalines may even be OK for you, but anything rechargeable isn't going to be what you're hoping for.

I agree with Charles about the waste factor of disposable batteries, but I think this might be the best bet for your use. Some brands of batteries advertise that they don't use Mercury (Energizer, maybe) which is very nasty stuff. Many older cameras used batteries containing a lot of mercury which were outlawed in the US years ago because of the pollution, but other choices are available for these cameras, which were most commonly made in the 60's and 70's. You might even check with a battery supplier (Batteries Plus in the US) to see if they take old batteries for recycling.

Problem is, most compact cameras use proprietary rechargeable batteries and don't have an option for anything else. What kind of camera are you looking for - film, digital, SLR, compact, etc?

[freygr]

Hi

I am trying to work out what batteries and camera to buy.

A problem is I heard some rechargeable batteries do not retain their charge for long if the camera has not been used for 6 months or so. It is hard to know how often I would use the camera and 6 or 12 months may easily pass before it is used again. However, when I do use it, it would be good to have batteries with some charge and be ready in the camera. I don’t want to replace or recharge batteries most times I use the camera. I heard some lithium batteries can cost perhaps $30 and may only last about 2 years even if the camera is not used often. Therefore AA batteries may be more economical as 2 rechargeable ones may only cost about $5.

So is it true that non rechargeable batteries normally discharge at a much slower rate than rechargeables?

Yes rechargables have a lower impedance (internal resistance) so they can deliver more current.

Any rechargable battery will not last just setting there. You may not have a choice as to the type of battery as most cameras are now using perpiatery batteries.

Roughly how long would an average rechargeable be effective for if it was fully charged and put in a camera that was not used? I assume it would have to have well over 0 % to be usable.

What batteries would take longer to discharge?

Are there any good cameras that are affordable where the batteries can be internally charged inside the camera? In theory this could be done to any camera if wires were connected to the terminals and if the other end of the wires were connected to a slow charging battery charger. What do you think of that idea?

Your help is appreciated,
Regards Richard.

Rechargable Lithium batteries have the fastest charging curve, quick charging NCAD or NiMH can be charged in an hour. But for shelf life the non-rechargable Lithium batteries last about 10 years. In fact my frist camera came with a set of Lithium batteries, and they lasted about 1000 photos but the rechargables NiMH only lasted 250-500 photos.

[Richard Hole]

Hi

Thanks for your letters.

I am thinking of a digital compact camera.

An interesting experiment would be to stick a plug on the camera that has wires going into the battery compartment to charge the batteries inside the camera. The other end of the plug would plug into a charger when the camera is switched off. However, it would have to be a slow trickle charge not to damage the camera. This would save taking batteries out and ensure they are always charged. Two AA rechargeable batteries are normally 2.5 volts. How many volts and amps would be the lowest amount that could be used to charge them? It would probably have to be at a very slow rate over a few days. The size of the voltage would have to be lower than the maximum voltage the camera is rated for. This should be a bit more than 3 volts because normal non rechargeable batteries are 3V. What do you think? What voltage and current would be required to charge?

If this works all I would have to do is simply plug the camera into the charger when I am not using it so that the batteries will remain charged. Do you know of any chargers that could be suitable? I am about to make an order from http://www.electusdistribution.com.au/ and it would be good to get one from there.

This should take very little power as it would only be a slow rate of charge and a timer could also be connected so that it may only be turned on for an hour a day.

Also, what do you think about the below non rechargeable battery that is available from Electus Distribution?

AA Size Lithium Long Lasting Batteries 1.5V - Pk. 2

The worlds longest lasting AA battery. The perfect power source for high drain appliances, such as cameras, camcorders, personal stereos, mobile phones, palm top computers and TV's.- Up to 3 times the life of any alkaline battery.- Up to 10 times the life of ordinary carbon zinc battery- Guaranteed shelf life up to 10 years.- 1.5V, 1.4Amp hour.- Pack of 2

How much life do you think it would take off the battery if it is left inside the camera and the camera is never used and switched off. I am curious how much power the camera’s computer takes when the camera is switched off.

I am thinking of a Pentax M10 described at http://www.camerastore.com.au/produc...%20Optio%20M10

Your help is appreciated,
Regards Richard.

[zrfraser]

Instead of going through all of that work, why not just remove the batteries and place them in a charger. It only takes a few hours to charge, and they even make car chargers that do it. It seems like you are making this harder then it has to be.

Z

[Richard Hole]

Hi

Thanks for the reply.


With the digital camera I have it is very hard and time consuming to
open the battery case. It is a very tight fit. Also it is very easy to
forget to put the batteries in if they are taken out. Having to put
them in would take crucial time if the photograph had to be taken
urgently. For example, I plan to take weather phenomenon that can only
occur for a few seconds at times without notice.

Also, if the batteries are taken out the clock may have to be reset.


There are some cameras that charge the batteries internally but they
are rare and may not do what I want.


Do you know of any suitable charger?


Regards Richard.

[another view]

I don't know of any charger that will do that - it sounds like something that would void any camera warranty and possibly damage it. I really think the best advice is to find something that will use a Lithium battery - whether AA's, CR123 or any other type. They'll last for a long time in storage. Might have a hard time finding that in a current digital camera though. The Canon A60 and A70 used AA's but they've been discontinued for a couple of years.

[cyberlord]

If you are in the market for a new camera anyway, take a look at the difficulty level of battery replacement when shopping for one. It will mean making a trip to a camera store, but you can still buy online once your decision is made.

My battery compartment is very easy to open and other than making sure the polarity is correct when inserting the batteries it's all a piece of cake for me. I've even swapped batteries while walking through the house to go outside to grab a quick shot of something.

Tim

[Richard Hole]

Hi

What do you think about the below non rechargeable battery that is available from Electus Distribution?

AA Size Lithium Long Lasting Batteries 1.5V - Pk. 2

The worlds longest lasting AA battery. The perfect power source for high drain appliances, such as cameras, camcorders, personal stereos, mobile phones, palm top computers and TV's.- Up to 3 times the life of any alkaline battery.- Up to 10 times the life of ordinary carbon zinc battery- Guaranteed shelf life up to 10 years.- 1.5V, 1.4Amp hour.- Pack of 2


Your help is appreciated,
Regards Richard.

[Erik Stiegler]

I have several older cameras that go unused for long periods of time, and battery drain simply is not a big deal for me with any of them. NiMH AAs will last months just sitting in a camera. Lithium Ion batteries will last longer in or out of a camera.

I don't see any reason to do any more than get a spare battery or spare set of rechargable AAs, and rotate them between the camera and a charger periodically.

[another view]

Sounds very similar to the Energizer E2 Lithium batteries I've used. They're readily available here in the 'States, although fairly expensive at about $10-12 for a four-pack. Still, it's probably the best and least expensive route for what you've been explaining.

Hi

What do you think about the below non rechargeable battery that is available from Electus Distribution?

AA Size Lithium Long Lasting Batteries 1.5V - Pk. 2

The worlds longest lasting AA battery. The perfect power source for high drain appliances, such as cameras, camcorders, personal stereos, mobile phones, palm top computers and TV's.- Up to 3 times the life of any alkaline battery.- Up to 10 times the life of ordinary carbon zinc battery- Guaranteed shelf life up to 10 years.- 1.5V, 1.4Amp hour.- Pack of 2


Your help is appreciated,
Regards Richard.