another B&W question

[subhuman]

Ok I havent been taking pictures seriously for very long I took a little photography class
on the internet......I have been trying new films and I like black& white....so I thought I would try Kodak T-max 100 speed...the pics turned out OK as for as composition goes
( I am still learning) but they were to light. I shot most of the pics in the point & shoot mode on my Canon Rebel T2 camera....My question is how do I get the dark
rich b&w pics that I see on the gallery here...I absolutly love that look.......Do I need to
Change the aperture to let in very little light
use a filter like yellow, green, red etc...
or let someone that really knows what their doing take the pics
Someone suggested developing the pics my self , but thats not going to happen, I barely know how to use the camera let alone develop my own film...... I took the film to a professional lab, but I dont think I will do that again..... 2rolls of t-max 60 prints cost me
$43......... I am kind of frustrated, everyone that sees my pics says they are really good but I just dont see it.......any help would be much appreciated.............

[jbaldocchi]

Not all labs are created equal. It would be good to check what labs and developers (person) other photographers are using in your area. Running tests with the film you're using can give you a good idea of the quality. You should bracket your shots. A couple of f stops in each direction should help you find the contrast you're looking for. Developing B & W film negatives isn't too difficult but taking a class would get you started.

Good luck,

Jim B.

[photophorous]

It sounds like there just isn't enough contrast. Most modern camera's do a pretty good job with auto exposures, so at least some of your shots should have the dark tones you're seeking. Check to make sure your Exposure Compensation isn't set to overexpose. Try bracketing or a different lab, like Jim suggested. Otherwise, I think you're problem is either with printing (the lab) or the subject contrast.

If the contrast in the scene you're photographing is too flat, your photos won't have any really dark tones. I suspect your camera has a spot metering mode. Try using that to evaluate the difference in brightness between the shadows and highlights in your shot. Zoom in (if possible) to isolate these areas and take a reading. If the difference (between the highlights and shadows) is less than about 5 stops, your shot will not have the dark tones you want. If it's more than 5 stops, you may have too much black or white. Try reading about the Zone System.

I know developing sounds crazy at first, but it's really not. You can buy a basic set up for just a little more than you've already spent on two rolls. Then it's just a matter of following a recipe and paying careful attention to time and temperature. You'll save money, but the best part is the control you have over the final image. Get a book or search on the net, and do a little reading. Take a class if you can find one. It may not be your thing, but don't rule it out because you think it's too difficult.

Good luck!

Paul

[yogestee]

As Jim mentioned not all labs are created equal..Find one that hand prints your B/W not via a machine..If you aren't happy with the results return the prints and explain what the problem is,,hopefully they will reprint your work free of charge..

Really the only way you are going to get the results you want is to print them yourself..Most B/W printing is done on "graded" paper from grade 1 to 5,,the higher the grade the higher the contrast.."Multigrade" papers the contrast is changed via filters like a colour head enlarger..The trick is to match the negative contrast with the print contrast..

You will get richer blacks if you use a higher grade paper or filters..There is a balance,,too higher grade and your highlights will blow out and lose detail..

There is a critical diference betweet exposure and development..B/W films can handle a brightness range of about 5 stops from the shadows to the highlights (both having some detail)..If for example you measure the highlights and shadows separately and discover you have 3 stops the negative will be flat (lacking contrast say on an overcast day) or 6 stops the negative will be contrasty (beach or snow scene)..If you only have 3 stops of brightness range underexpose your shot by half or a full stop and increase your development my about 20%..If for example the brightness range is 6 stops,,over expose your shot say by a stop and decrease your development by about 20%..It is all trial and error..

With the "perfect" negative the scene contrast is equal to the negative contrast,,very dificult to obtain but the diferences can be made up by choosing the right grade of paper to match the negative..

Jurgen
Australia

[another view]

If you're judging that the prints are too light by looking at the proofs that the lab gave you, then that doesn't necessarily mean that the "real" prints you can get from those same negatives will be that way. You can use yellow or red filters when shooting to increase contrast but a lot of the magic happens in the darkroom. Disclaimer: I've developed a fair amount of my own negs but never made a darkroom print. I'm self taught based on a couple of books, and got pretty decent negs that I scanned.

$23/roll for processing and proofs is pretty steep, but not many places do it anymore. I had the same reaction with the first couple of b&w rolls that were developed at a lab - the proofs didn't have any punch to them. Proofs are just samples of what the neg looks like. They're not the best way a print can be made, and usually will have soft contrast which will show you all of the shadow detail. Find a lab that specializes in true darkroom b&w prints, take your favorite neg and it's proof to them and tell them what you want. The difference can be dramatic if they're good. Print making is really an art form in itself.

If you want to try developing your own negs, shoot me a private message. A fellow member gave me some equipment for doing this and I'd be happy to send it your way (no charge of course). Warning - it can get addicting...

[yogestee]

If you're judging that the prints are too light by looking at the proofs that the lab gave you, then that doesn't necessarily mean that the "real" prints you can get from those same negatives will be that way. You can use yellow or red filters when shooting to increase contrast but a lot of the magic happens in the darkroom. Disclaimer: I've developed a fair amount of my own negs but never made a darkroom print. I'm self taught based on a couple of books, and got pretty decent negs that I scanned.

$23/roll for processing and proofs is pretty steep, but not many places do it anymore. I had the same reaction with the first couple of b&w rolls that were developed at a lab - the proofs didn't have any punch to them. Proofs are just samples of what the neg looks like. They're not the best way a print can be made, and usually will have soft contrast which will show you all of the shadow detail. Find a lab that specializes in true darkroom b&w prints, take your favorite neg and it's proof to them and tell them what you want. The difference can be dramatic if they're good. Print making is really an art form in itself.

If you want to try developing your own negs, shoot me a private message. A fellow member gave me some equipment for doing this and I'd be happy to send it your way (no charge of course). Warning - it can get addicting...

Yes it can become addicting..When I had myown studio and darkroom I would often go into the darkroom in the evening with a pot of coffee and a packet of ciggies and surface at 3.00am..

There is nothing like the smell of developer in the morning!!

Jurgen
Australia

[F-15_Flyer]

Everyone else pretty much summed everything up but I have to add that developing your own images in a dark room is quite an experience, I won't do it any other way, I even have a Minolta 7D, that I rarely use.

For me, the dark room is a place to relax, and soak up whats good. Listen to music, and develop pictures, I have so much fun in there, I dance and do everything at the same time.(oh boy) I guess you can say, the darkroom for me is just like the love my dad has for getting on his harley and just driving. You get away from it all, it's where magic happens.