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  1. #1
    Mamiya Man
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    advise for a bad situation?

    well the wedding I have to shoot for my cousin is sunday. I have tested all my cameras, flashes etc. now they decided to throw another wrench into the gears. They are getting married in a hall, under an archway with candles on the side and mini lights all along the side and top of the arch, it's like one of those that you put together and some put climbing plants on. I am having a hard time to describe it. well we have it put together and with the lights off they way the are doing it at the hall I took a meter reading w/my incident meter. @ iso 800 and at f5.6 I get a shutter speed of 1/8 of a second. now I want to get not only the bride and groom clear in the picture but also get the candles and lights w/out bleaching them out flash. Would I use the flash and use 1/8 of a second to get the back round lights or would I be over exposing? My syc speed is anywhere between 1 second to 1/400th of a second on my camera w/leaf shutter and My Eos 3 syncs up to 1/200th a second. So after reading my novel does anyone have any advise? also If I take outdoor portraits of the bride on an overcast day should I pull the film a stop to get the dress white?


    Thanks,
    Magoo the nervous wedding photographer
    No good dead goes unpunished

  2. #2
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    I hate to be blunt here, but how much do you like your cousin? Why didn't you recommend them to someone who knows what they're doing? Every situation you mentioned an experienced photographer knows how to work with.

    Why not find an experienced wedding photographer and ask if you can assist? I took my portfolio to a wedding photographer and told her I would work for free. She looked through my pictures, liked my use of lighting, and paid me $300 to do my first wedding.

    A wedding comes once (at least should) in peoples lifes. If you're not 100% confident I wouldn't try and tackle it on your own.

    Mike

  3. #3
    Mamiya Man
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    she can't afford a wedding photographer. I normally don't have a problem taking the pictures or using my flashes. I normally like to shoot available light pictures of night scenes and landscapes. I don't want to take chances to mess up once in a lifetime pictures . the wedding is on a shoestring budget, she is a single mother and just turned 18 and the fiance just got layed off about a month ago so he has some side work to take care of the kid. everyone in the family is chipping in where they can to make it as best we can and I'm the only person in the family with all the meters and all the cameras to do the pictures. The only reason I'm asking these questions is because I want to make sure I get this right for her because she will get stuck with this for as long as they are married.


    Magoo

  4. #4
    Sleep is optional Sebastian's Avatar
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    Magoo,

    The flash will properly expose the subject, and if you use a 1/8 second shutter the background will also be properly exposed. This would be a use of front or rear-curtain sync.

    A tripod would help keep the background sharp, but wouldn't do much to prevent motion blur on the bride and groom.

    I suggest a faster ISO, wider lenses, or both. I would shoot something like that wide open, not stopped down to 5.6. A soft shot would be more important than a blurry shot, or no shot at all, IMO. Plus, you could do what many wedding shooters do, stage the shots after the ceremony. That way you could instruct them to stand as still as possible, bust out the tripod and give it a go.
    -Seb

    My website

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  5. #5
    has-been... another view's Avatar
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    I'd suggest two things:

    1) Stage the shots that are most important, ask the minister/pastor/officiant to stick around for a couple of minutes and do the shots with him/her first (trying to be p.c. here...). I would think two or three shots like this would be OK. Maybe for these you could bring up some room lights a little so that you can use ISO400 film with flash and still get some detail in the background without long shutter speeds - and ask them to stand still too. These are the "insurance" shots - you're controlling the situation.

    2) Shoot during the ceremony with available light, your fastest lens and 3200 B&W film. The lab here in town does well with T-Max 3200 shot at 1600. There's alot of grain, but it looks good - a different feel. At 3200 there's a lot more grain, but it still might not be the end of the world. 6x7 would be great because of this, but if you have faster 35mm lenses I'd go with that instead. Try a couple wide even though you're pretty sure the candles will be blown out. Try some tighter so the candles aren't in the frame. Experiment here, it might be tough to predict what you're going to get and film is cheap compared with having to re-create it another time! IMO, a shot with a very shallow DOF but a specific sharp area (like shooting close with an 85 f1.4 wide open) is much better than a longer DOF but the B&G are blurry from movement. I'm assuming you'll shoot all of this on a tripod.

  6. #6
    Mamiya Man
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    Thanks guys, those suggestions are a big help. I have a 50mm 1.4 for one of my 35's I will try and I have a 90 on the rb67. I am also going to get some poloroid film and do some practice shots. Thank you for your help.

  7. #7
    Be serious Franglais's Avatar
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    My try

    Quote Originally Posted by magoo
    well the wedding I have to shoot for my cousin is sunday. I have tested all my cameras, flashes etc. now they decided to throw another wrench into the gears. They are getting married in a hall, under an archway with candles on the side and mini lights all along the side and top of the arch, it's like one of those that you put together and some put climbing plants on. I am having a hard time to describe it. well we have it put together and with the lights off they way the are doing it at the hall I took a meter reading w/my incident meter. @ iso 800 and at f5.6 I get a shutter speed of 1/8 of a second. now I want to get not only the bride and groom clear in the picture but also get the candles and lights w/out bleaching them out flash. Would I use the flash and use 1/8 of a second to get the back round lights or would I be over exposing? My syc speed is anywhere between 1 second to 1/400th of a second on my camera w/leaf shutter and My Eos 3 syncs up to 1/200th a second. So after reading my novel does anyone have any advise? also If I take outdoor portraits of the bride on an overcast day should I pull the film a stop to get the dress white?


    Thanks,
    Magoo the nervous wedding photographer
    No good dead goes unpunished
    Firstly lets assume you're using 800 ISO colour negative film so you can safely overexpose by 1 stop and get it back in the lab. In this case using 1/8 sec f5.6 with direct flash would give you a fairly good result with the subjects frontally lit and the rest of the scene looking rather red by comparison but still correctly illuminated - assuming that your flash is not too powerful for f5.6 at 800ISO at the distance you're going to use. Avoid moments where the subjects are moving and focal lengths over 50mm because 1/8 sec is a slow shutter speed even if it's the flash that is going to freeze the subjet.

    However, I would try to use bounce flash. Assuming your flash has a point and tilt head, look around for some large white surface somewhere above and in front of the subject - preferably not the ceiling above them, this will give unpleasant shadows on their faces. Calculate the flash-to-subject distance (= distance flash-to-reflector + flash-to-subject). Calculate the full-power f-stop required for this distance for your flash with 800ISO film. Then knock 2 stops off (example: f11 becomes f5.6). Ideally you should be able to use f4 without using the full power of the flash (to ensure a quick recharge). Your working exposure would then be 1/30 f4:

    - the subjects will be well-lit by a frontal light which looks natural because it's diffuse
    - the background (by ambient light) will be one stop under-exposed but the effect will be gradual as you've splurged out so much light with the bounce
    - your candlelights and stuff will not be overpowered by the flash
    - the subjects should be reasonably free of blurring because of the 1/30 shutter speed
    - you still have adequate depth of field with an aperture of f4

    I've used this sort of setup in similar situations in the past, with a few head-on flash shots just to be sure of getting some images. The result from the bounce shots was much better.

    I wouldn't pull the film to get the dress white in outdoor shots. I would switch over to 400ISO film as quickly as possible because I prefer the colour.

    Charles

  8. #8
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    Magoo,

    If this is the case, here is what I would do:

    1) go to the location with your equipment and someone to model and practice/experiment.It's worth a couple of rolls of film.
    2) Shoot black and white and take it to a pro lab (try and find one that processes lots of weddings) to have it developed. Especially for contrasty and tricky lighting situations. There's a reason you see so many portraits converted to B&W digitally. If possible, get a second camera with color film too. (it's also good to have a backup). This, with an on board flash, will come in handy at the reception.
    3) I would STILL highly recomend you get someone to take formals. Wedding dresses, as one example, are beatiful with tons of detail. IMO, a multiple light setup is really what you need do this right. For the reception you more or less expect "snap shot" like pictures. Or, at least have her go to a local studio to get shots done with her dress.

    Also, put disposable cameras on all the tables. For my sisters wedding, somebody took awesome shots with one of these.

    Mike

  9. #9
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    Finally, a topic I know something about.

    Finally, a topic I know something about that I can reply intelligently to.

    First, talk to the officiant to see how much walking around and flash you can use. Often there is no flash during the ceremony and not alot of walking around allowed.

    Don't restage the scene. The emotion won't be the same and shots like that tend to look contrived after the fact.

    Load your camera with 3200 ISO B&W and open your lens wide. I shoot almost all the wedding at F2.8 or less. Use your 50 1.4. If you can't get close, use the 50 for shots where the bride and groom are a part of the environment. Like from a balcony or something.

    If you can use flash, drag the shutter. Load camera with ISO 800 film. Set camera to manual mode. 1/15 - 1/30. Lens wide open. Use flash. The 1/15 will let in a good amount of ambient light while the flash will freeze slight motion of the subjects.

    Lastly, burn alot of film. It will increase the chances you get a good photo since this is your first wedding. To give you an idea of volume. During 10 hours of coverage, I will typically shoot between 800 - 1200 images; equivalent to 25 - 30 rolls of film.

    Good Luck,

    Dennis
    "Foolish consistency is the hobgobblin of little minds." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

  10. #10
    Sleep is optional Sebastian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsl712
    Finally, a topic I know something about that I can reply intelligently to.

    First, talk to the officiant to see how much walking around and flash you can use. Often there is no flash during the ceremony and not alot of walking around allowed.

    Don't restage the scene. The emotion won't be the same and shots like that tend to look contrived after the fact.

    Load your camera with 3200 ISO B&W and open your lens wide. I shoot almost all the wedding at F2.8 or less. Use your 50 1.4. If you can't get close, use the 50 for shots where the bride and groom are a part of the environment. Like from a balcony or something.

    If you can use flash, drag the shutter. Load camera with ISO 800 film. Set camera to manual mode. 1/15 - 1/30. Lens wide open. Use flash. The 1/15 will let in a good amount of ambient light while the flash will freeze slight motion of the subjects.

    Lastly, burn alot of film. It will increase the chances you get a good photo since this is your first wedding. To give you an idea of volume. During 10 hours of coverage, I will typically shoot between 800 - 1200 images; equivalent to 25 - 30 rolls of film.

    Good Luck,

    Dennis
    Dennis makes an important point. Restaging the event has a lot of potential for looking contrived. Nontheless, it is a tactic used by wedding pros. I would do my damnest to get the shot the first time around, if that didn't work out, I woudl only consider restaging if I felt that the couple could make it look real.
    -Seb

    My website

    (Please don't edit and repost my images without my permission. Thank you)

    How to tell the most experienced shooter in a group? They have the least amount of toys on them.

  11. #11
    Mamiya Man
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    thank you guys, I am going to try and do a little practice while I have the trellis in the garage. I picked up some polaroid 690 to try and experiment before hand. I appreciate all your help

    Magoo

  12. #12
    has-been... another view's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastian
    Dennis makes an important point. Restaging the event has a lot of potential for looking contrived. Nontheless, it is a tactic used by wedding pros. I would do my damnest to get the shot the first time around, if that didn't work out, I woudl only consider restaging if I felt that the couple could make it look real.
    I do agree with this, and think you should do everything you can to capture the moment. I still think it's a good idea to set up a couple of shots afterwards as insurance. If the shots during the ceremony work out, they'll be better. Maybe not technically because you aren't controlling the situation, but the emotion is there which will make a better shot. Use a good lab, they can be a lifesaver with the prints.

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