About Filters!!??

[MarcusK]

Well, as i have been reading in many posts all over the forum, i realized there is a lot of talk about filters of all kinds. So, curious about them i couldn't wait anymore, and jumped around trying to figure them out!

I figured I would share what i have learned and hope that others who have a deep knowledge of Filters would also share their info here!

Here's the list of Filters i know of:

1- Color Filters: basically these allow their color to pass through and therefore, in color photos, will cast a shade of that color.... basically a yellow filter will make the whole photo yellowish and this applies to all other colors.

2- Neutral Density Filters: these simply under-expose a photo... they are grey and do not affect the colors of the shot!

3- Color Compensation (CC) Filters: these are used when you are using a daylight film under tungsten light, or basically when using a film under a different light than it is balanced for

4- Special Effects Filters: Different filters with effects that would or might be considered "arty"

5- Polarizer Filter: takes care of the reflections off most surfaces except metallic ones... so if you are shooting a shop's window, the polarizer, after turning around a bit, will minimize the reflections if not cancel them out! It also darkens the blue of the sky without affecting the scene's colors!

This of course is "filters in a nutshell"... but the most important reason I wanted to start this thread is that i realized that in this digital age it is important to mention why you would buy a filter and which ones you do need if you are shooting digital!

- Color Filters are needed in film cameras and i don't see the use of them in digital since you can cast a color tone over any digital image with just about any photo editing software. More over, they are most useful in B&W film, unless you intend to manipulate the colors of a color film.... In B&W these filters help in making certain colors pop out...i.e. a red rose, when shot in B&W film with a red filter attached, will turn up on the final print as brighter than the darkened background... etc...

- Neutral Density Filters, would be used usually when your lens, film and camera can not handle the too bright light available, so you would need to compensate by minimizing the light in order for your settings to handle them.... i,e: if your lens has an f -stop of f/22 minimum, and the fastest shutter you have is 1/1000, and the light meter is saying you need f/32, you will a ND filter to compensate. Again, with the new cameras, you shouldn't really find yourself that much in such situations, and whenever you think a particular photo could have been under-exposed, you could always ask the clerk to compensate in development!

- Color Compensation, is purely a film issue, since with white balance, you have no need for these! so basically CC filters are what in the digital field is referred to as white balance. You need to read about the films you are using to understand what light they are balanced for and what filter you need to compensate!

- Special Effects Filters come in various styles, and basically there is not much to say about them since they are self explanatory. Personally i don't see why one would get such filters, but that i leave to personal opinion. one thing i would add, is that you need to be careful and not overuse them!

- Polarizer Filter is the mist important and valuable filter of all... effective with color and B&W film as well as digital.To be able to darken the sky without affecting the rest of the image is something great, specially that you will not need to manipulate the photo in post.... I have found that should you consider filters... this would be the one to start with... and the rest you could skip since you could always make the corrections in post processing (both digitally or otherwise)....

Whew.... ok... so that was my research and i guess it is pretty elaborate... i hope this helps anyone out there who is as curious about filters as i was!

I'm looking forward to any additions that may be there to what i have written!!

Enjoy,

Marc

[Xia_Ke]

Great thread Marcus! :thumbsup:

2 little additions:

6 - UV filters - not really an issue as I understand it now given current films and lens coatings but, still in wide use a "protective" lens. Personally I have stopped using UV/protective filters on my lenses. I do not find them necessary.

7 - Graduated filters - Only half the filter has any color applied. The other half is clear. Used to darken skylines while leaving landscapes unchanged.

[MarcusK]

:blush2: umm yeah those 2 as well,.... Thanks Aaron!

one more thing you reminded me of, since a filter is another glass in front of the lens, basically it runs the risk of making you loose quality... hence you're right... UV/protective filters do not have reason enough to make it in front of the lens... at least I agree with you!

Marc

[Xia_Ke]

...one more thing you reminded me of, since a filter is another glass in front of the lens, basically it runs the risk of making you loose quality... hence you're right... UV/protective filters do not have reason enough to make it in front of the lens... at least I agree with you!

Marc

I was reading an article by one of my favorite photographers, Mike Spinak, and he talked quite a bit why he doesn't use them and it got me thinking. Since then I have opted not to use them. Interesting article, here's the link just scroll down a little ways.

[another view]

Couple of things to note:

Color filters for B&W and color are different. If you use a Yellow filter for B&W with color film, everything will be yellow. Filters made for color (like an 81A, B or C) are I guess really more for correcting color but will let other colors thru - with the cast of the filter.

ND filters are useful with any camera - new or old, film or digital. Depends on what you're trying to achieve with your shot.

Polarizers can affect more than just the sky but usually in a good way. They're also useful in other situations like avoiding reflections on glass and glossy paint (like on a car - a polarizer doesn't react to metal unless the finish you're seeing isn't actually metal, in this case paint).

[TristateViP]

good info..thanks

[readingr]

Couple of things to note:

Color filters for B&W and color are different. If you use a Yellow filter for B&W with color film, everything will be yellow. Filters made for color (like an 81A, B or C) are I guess really more for correcting color but will let other colors thru - with the cast of the filter.

ND filters are useful with any camera - new or old, film or digital. Depends on what you're trying to achieve with your shot.

Polarizers can affect more than just the sky but usually in a good way. They're also useful in other situations like avoiding reflections on glass and glossy paint (like on a car - a polarizer doesn't react to metal unless the finish you're seeing isn't actually metal, in this case paint).

One thing about polarizing filters not mentioned is that they enhance the colour by increasing saturation because of the reduction in glare.

I mainly use the polarizer for landscapes, seascapes, and elimination of reflections, especially on water. For seascapes it is an essential piece of kit even on cloudy days.

8. IR filters for the camera and flashgun for IR photography.


Roger

[threelions usa]

the cokin system.

is a circular polariser for digital or can you suggest an alternative.

currently it is virtually impossible to buy one locally.



thanks

[MarcusK]

The circular polarizer is for digital and film... and has benefits for color and B&W

Dunno much about brands... and for that i hope someone posts something interesting soon!

However, within my research, it was stated that there is no need to get a Filter System. That circular filters (and just the ones you need) would be for a better buy!

I heard something about Hoya, my friend said he liked them and that they weren't very expensive!

Marc

[jgredline]

Thank you !!!!

[Skyman]

my two cents (having far more filters than i really need) there are some effects that still seem to "feel" better with a filter than through photoshop. soft focus filters for example. nothing beats a nikon soft (and i am a canon user although i do have a soft lens that comes close) and for me warming filters just don't work as well when aplied digitally. I love my 81a!

[another view]

Linear polarizers were the only choice until autofocus cameras came out because they couldn't focus thru them. This is why circular polarizers came out - and they work fine with film and digital. I have a Hoya SMC slim mount and it's really good (color neutral). Since they tend to be expensive, a lot of people (me included) just own one of the largest diameter needed then use step-up rings to attach them to smaller lenses.

[readingr]

Linear polarizers were the only choice until autofocus cameras came out because they couldn't focus thru them. This is why circular polarizers came out - and they work fine with film and digital. I have a Hoya SMC slim mount and it's really good (color neutral). Since they tend to be expensive, a lot of people (me included) just own one of the largest diameter needed then use step-up rings to attach them to smaller lenses.

I went for the B&W purely because at the time it was cheaper than the Hoya - but just as good and colour neutral.

Roger

[another view]

I went for the B&W purely because at the time it was cheaper than the Hoya

That's unusual, IME - and B+W are great filters. Note B+W is a brand, not specifically for black and white film.

[readingr]

That's unusual, IME - and B+W are great filters. Note B+W is a brand, not specifically for black and white film.

Oops - force of habit.

Yes up to the point I put in the order the Hoya were about £30 cheaper, but on the day I got lucky and B+W was £10 cheaper.

Roger

[threelions usa]

with the cokin "system" perhaps i kind of didn't fully explain.

the system really consists of a "mount" that is interchangeable wit hall of the lenses the P covers wide angles if i am not mistaken.

all it allows you to do is not to have to buy the screw in polarisers. you can slip one in the holder and change it quickly from lens to lens rather than buy a different screw in filter for each lens. i only own two but thinking ahead wanted to be able to buy one filter and use it on various lenses when i upgrade. you get a ring for each lens and then the "system" clips on to each lens depending upon which one you use.

other than the fact that you can use multiple filters (which finding out how to use ONE is in and of itself tough for a newcomer) i thought that it would also be much cheaper in the long run. i.e. one filter say $25 which can be changed onto various lenses rather than a different filter for each lens.

[readingr]

with the cokin "system" perhaps i kind of didn't fully explain.

the system really consists of a "mount" that is interchangeable wit hall of the lenses the P covers wide angles if i am not mistaken.

all it allows you to do is not to have to buy the screw in polarisers. you can slip one in the holder and change it quickly from lens to lens rather than buy a different screw in filter for each lens. i only own two but thinking ahead wanted to be able to buy one filter and use it on various lenses when i upgrade. you get a ring for each lens and then the "system" clips on to each lens depending upon which one you use.

other than the fact that you can use multiple filters (which finding out how to use ONE is in and of itself tough for a newcomer) i thought that it would also be much cheaper in the long run. i.e. one filter say $25 which can be changed onto various lenses rather than a different filter for each lens.

Looking ahead - look at the diameter of the lens you plan to buy - once you get to wide angle 77mm diameter or so you need to go to the X series because the P isn't quite big enough.

So lets say your looking at the Canon 100-400 Zoom or the 24-70 F2.8 then you really need the X series in the Cokin range.

Roger

[MarcusK]

A Couple thoughts and questions:

1- As exciting as it is to own many lenses (prime and/or zoom), it is much more efficient not to buy any new lenses until you are fully sure of your needs for such lenses!

2- Whichever filters you end up buying, it remains important not to over use it! And it is this feeling (much like a kid in xmas) of wanting to wear down whatever new gadget we got that we should be weary about! The reason I mention this point, is that i remember myself as well as reading a lot of posts by beginners on forums, and well had the same attitude of looking forward to getting more and more stuff in order to expand our horizons. Or just because we felt frustrated for not being to get the right composition, or not being able to get close enough etc.....

3- I bought a Hoya Circular Polarizer.... Liked the price and thought I might as well give it a shot (since this was the only thing I haven't really experimented with)......Now I'm thinking..... is this really worth it??? I still need to try it out of course.. but i shot landscape the other weekend.... went out with my light meter, and was setting Manual of course... Keeping in mind where I live (United Arab Emirates....Dubai for those who don't know....Hell for those who do) The sun is scorching, and the light well just plain ugly (photographically speaking of course) The results I got for the sky, without a polarizer (of course it was from sunrise to a couple of hours after that), were stunning...even for me! it was the first time i really get such a sky without post while maintaining proper detail!

So do i need a polarizer really??? I'll be using it now....at every chance i get, just to see how much difference it makes

4- I did test it out when i first got it at home, and i did see what difference it makes.... Now, in terms of Sky... are there occasions where it does not work??? of course not shooting straight into the sun..... Coz the home tests were very unsatisfactory???

5- which brings me to the question of "Are there 'ratings' or 'degrees' for polarizing filters?? as are there some stronger than others? if so, what would be a good setting?

Marc

[threelions usa]

have a cokin on it's way.

sounds like a little we have similar problems.

our sky is well, sky blue. it is SO bright and being a beginner i am still struggling with content etc. next i have to find apertures/shutter speed.

i had a day off yesterday and went to the beach. it is now mid october and we are still into the 90's as i would imagine you are.

the glare is truly tough to deal with. as i say being a novice i am still struggling on how much light to let in.

trouble is you slow down the shutter (my experience so far and please remember i am still learning) and the areas of light are HUGE. up the shutter speed and you get no colour at all so it seems. (obviously trying to find a ss/f stop balance)

so i wonder in all of the wonders that i am currently struggling with, i am using crops to show me what i need to focus on, is how can i find a photo with some of the colours that i find my mid west etc. colleagues have ??

will a polariser cut down the glare. i'll post some with and without in a week or so.

i would bet that more sunglasses are sold in these types of conditions than elsewhere.

as of yesterday and today it was about 40% humidity and still around 90 degrees. there was not ONE single cloud in the sky. good luck then with those sunset photos!!!!

:cryin: :cryin: :cryin:

[MarcusK]

Well here's the thing,

I have found that by exposing for the sky (prior to my getting a light-meter) was about my pointing the camera towards the sky, getting the exposure and then going down 1 or 2 stops depending on how bright the day or light is. This usually should give a pretty good exposure for the sky as well as the rest of the photo (this is how i used to expose when shooting slide flim, but without the underexposing).

A friend, having read about it somewhere, said that you could do the same thing by exposing for the greens (bushes, trees, grass etc....) and then bringing it down 2 stops, he tried it and said it works.

Now, regarding what you said about shutter speed / f-stop balance, it depends on what you are shooting, as well as your lens(es). If you have the possibility of setting the focus to infinity (which you wanna do when shooting landscape), basically wanting to get maximum depth of field, then the f-stop is not gonna be much of an issue.... however, if when shooting landscape with most lenses today (at our financial level anyway) then you want to go with maximum f-stop (i.e. f/22 or more depending on the lens) which by default will cause the shutter to be whatever it should be! By setting the camera on Aperture priority (Av) and setting the aperture on f/22 or more, then exposing the sky will give you the required shutter speed to expose the sky properly.... under-exposing by 2 stops will give you a good range for most of tones.

The light meter, by giving me the proper exposure for 18% grey (which is half way between balck and white), gives me the best exposure without worrying about my highlights and shadows (not much anyway)....

However, the thing is, I think that we need to understand the area we are shooting.... for example here, just lately has the temperature gone down to 80 with about 50% humidity... (a month ago it was 113 with 80% humidity.... I wont tell you how much it was during the summer).... All photos i took mid-day, were with a bright white sky...devoid of any color or character.... but the sunrise shots, well.... they were a whole different thing...

At the end, i believe that the quality of light, in places such as the ones we are in, plays a major role... so probably even a polariser will not make such a huge difference (at least for now).... but for what it's worth, it did make a difference on the colors of the other elements in the photo which were too bright without the polarizer....

As for the other filters, the reason i don't see how important, or worth the money, they are with DSLR's, is because of white balance issues.... Digitally speaking, I found that I am better off adding these filters in post if i need to, rather than using them on camera.... I got the filters for my film camera (which i still love using), and tried with my DSLR... now it might be because of how comfortable i am using photoshop that i don't see the relevance of such filters (Color filters, or ND filters, CC filters)... Graduated filters do make things much easier!... but that is pretty much it!

I'll post some photos when I can.... and compare them with the ones i took the other weekend exposing with my light-meter.....

cheers,

Marc