Slide Film for Beach Vacation?

[photophorous]

Hey Everybody!

I'm looking for some advice on which slide films to take on a beach vacation. I've only shot a few rolls of slide film before, so I don't have a good feel for the differences beyond what I've read. I was hoping someone could tell me if I'm on the right track.

It seems that the most highly saturated films also have the most contrast and least latitude, and thus will work best when the lighting is good to flat. I'm thinking I could use Provia or maybe Astia during the day when lighting is high contrast and save a few rolls of Velvia for morning, evening, or cloudy days (if that happens). Does this sound like a good strategy? What about Sensia, 100 or 400? How do they fit in? It would be nice to have some 400 speed film, but I don't know how Sensia 400 compares to Provia 400.

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks!

Paul

[racingpinarello]

Hi Paul,

Sensia and Provia are very very similar. I have been impressed with the consumer grade film, but if you can afford Provia do it.

Here is my advice, for the day use Provia and in lowlight use Provia 400. If you are shooting colorful buildings, boats, sunsets, use Velvia and a tripod.

Having shot a lot of Velvia in my life, I appreciate the saturation but your exposure must be dead on. If not, your scanning will be hell. Provia allows for easier scanning and saturation is still very good.

Overall I think your strategy is very good.
Loren

[photophorous]

Thanks for commenting, Loren.

I won't be taking a tripod, and since everything I shoot will be scanned, I'll probably just skip out on the Velvia. Maybe I'll take one roll just in case there's a cloudy day.

Does Provia do alright with skin tones? Are Provia 100 and 400 pretty much the same in regard to saturation, contrast, and skin tones?

Any comments on Astia? I never hear much about it.

Thanks,
Paul

[mtbbrian]

What I want to know is, are you going to be using your R2A?!
If you are more concerned with skin tones, I'd recommend color negative film.
I like Kodak Porta NC and VC in the 400 and 160 ASA's.

On a Holga note, I have been using one Holga with slide film for my more general shots and one with color negative film for portraits. I do this because the Portra has better skin tones. Even with a Holga!

Just a thought...
What beach are you going to anyway?
Brian

[Greg McCary]

I have used Sensia some and find the colors slightly desaturated. I am not sure if I would use it in a beach enviroment. I know it's not slide, but I think that Tuna uses Reala and I find the color in his prints excellant.
Greg

[photophorous]

What I want to know is, are you going to be using your R2A?!
If you are more concerned with skin tones, I'd recommend color negative film.
I like Kodak Porta NC and VC in the 400 and 160 ASA's.

On a Holga note, I have been using one Holga with slide film for my more general shots and one with color negative film for portraits. I do this because the Portra has better skin tones. Even with a Holga!

Just a thought...
What beach are you going to anyway?
Brian

Of course, I'll be using my R2A! I plan to shoot a few test rolls as soon as I can, but I only have two weeks. Skin tones are not my primary concern, but I don't want a film that's going to make people look green or pink either. I've heard Velvia can be bad on skin, so I just wanted to make sure Provia is ok. I'm going to Nassau in the Bahamas. The girlfriend and I found a last minute package deal we couldn't pass up.

Paul

[photophorous]

I have used Sensia some and find the colors slightly desaturated. I am not sure if I would use it in a beach enviroment. I know it's not slide, but I think that Tuna uses Reala and I find the color in his prints excellant.
Greg

Hi Greg,

Thanks for the tip on Sensia. I'll probably not risk it for this trip, although I have a roll in fridge I've been meaning to try. I just got a couple of rolls of Reala back from the lab and I do like that film. It has very good realistic colors and tiny grain, but I really want to try some slide film for the extra bit of resolution it provides. I may take some Reala too.

Paul

[racingpinarello]

I love Astia...great for skin tones, and very good for general all day photography. Provia is closer to it, and a good compromise.

If you plan to shoot a lot of people, and candid photos..go with Astia.

[photophorous]

Can anyone comment on a comparison between Reala and Astia? I find Reala to be aptly named. It has realistic color, relatively low contrast and good latitude. I think it works very well for brightly lit, high contrast shooting and probably for portraits too, but can have somewhat boring subdued colors in flatter lighting. This seems similar to what I've read about Astia. Just wondering if any of you have used both.

Thanks!

Paul

[another view]

Does Provia do alright with skin tones? Are Provia 100 and 400 pretty much the same in regard to saturation, contrast, and skin tones?

Yes and yes. Provia might not be everyone's first choice for the ultimate rendition with skin tones but it's pretty good. I'd plan on using an 81A or even 81B filter a lot because this film has a bit of a bluish cast in some cases (day at the beach would do it). I shot 400 in bright sunlight to see how it worked and could hardly tell the difference between it and 100. Never tried Astia.

Provia or Astia vs. Reala is like comparing apples to orangutans though... Print films work much differently - different contrast, print quality depends on the lab, etc. I don't have much experience with Fuji neg film though.

[mtbbrian]

I'm going to Nassau in the Bahamas. The girlfriend and I found a last minute package deal we couldn't pass up.

Paul

Did you make reservations and pay for it for me and my wife too?
You should just marry your gf, I saw your comment on RFF...
She sounds like a keeper if she is that supportive of your photography.
Brian

[drg]

My first inclination is to suggest Astia for everything, but you may want to take pictures when the sun is not bright, or with flash in the evening.

Astia when properly lighted is the best film but it can get dull in lower light conditions. VERY accurate, but not everybody wants perfect color, they usually want something closer to Velvia which I don't care for in that latitude. Too much haze in the air usually from the moisture and you can get blue or red spots or highlights when least expected.

Provia 400 is a wonderful compromise between flexibility and color. It is more costly. And shooting indoors and outdoors possible on the same roll means getting in developed by a good pro lab or shipping it off to Fuji (usually dirt cheap) to get it right.

Sensia (100 and 200) are great travel films, particularly shooting underwater. 100/200 ISO Sensia are about the easiest slide films to get to work under a wide range of conditions, including flash and underwater. They do have specific color/saturation/contrast performance that isn't always preferred by some photogs.

I think you can still get Sensia 400?? I haven't used it much ever and its been ?years? anyway.

Let me see if I can dig up some Astia pics, here's a flower sample I posted for someone (rick maybe??)



You can click on the flower picture to go to the gallery picture for larger image and details.




Soldier Field in Chicago, Illinois. Again click on photo for larger version and details. Not as representative as there's post processing, made with a p/s (though a really good one) and it was taken out of a car window.

Both of these were made with the older Astia 100 formulation, but 100F and the PRO are very similar. I'll see if there are any hand Astia photos with people that aren't tied up with customers. Or I'll find some.

Hope this helps some. . .

[photophorous]

Yes and yes. Provia might not be everyone's first choice for the ultimate rendition with skin tones but it's pretty good. I'd plan on using an 81A or even 81B filter a lot because this film has a bit of a bluish cast in some cases (day at the beach would do it). I shot 400 in bright sunlight to see how it worked and could hardly tell the difference between it and 100. Never tried Astia.

Provia or Astia vs. Reala is like comparing apples to orangutans though... Print films work much differently - different contrast, print quality depends on the lab, etc. I don't have much experience with Fuji neg film though.

Thanks for the info. Provia sounds more along the lines of what I want, except for the blue cast everyone mentions. That worries me. I don't want to have to mess with filters...I don't even own an 81a or b. Is the blue cast something that is easy to remove in photoshop, or will doing that defeat the purpose of using this film? I'll try to shoot a test roll before my trip.

Paul

[Tel]

Wow, After reading this thread I'm so glad to be digital. D:

[another view]

except for the blue cast everyone mentions. That worries me. I don't want to have to mess with filters...I don't even own an 81a or b. Is the blue cast something that is easy to remove in photoshop, or will doing that defeat the purpose of using this film?

It's not anything like shooting tungsten film in the daylight - just a bluish cast in some bright sun conditions, and a lot of times in the shadows. drg brought up flash, and a little fill flash would help that out too. I knew a guy who shot a ton if it for magazine assignments. He would use an 81B sometimes, and almost always used an amber gel in front of his flash (can't remember seeing him use both at once). The results really looked great. Can you clean it up with PS? Sure, and it wouldn't be hard especially if you're applying it to the entire image. It's possible you might only want to change a small area of the image, which is something you wouldn't be able to do in-camera.

I wouldn't worry too much about the warming filter thing. Getting used to any particular film (and all the other variables if you're using neg film) is just part of the process. It takes awhile, and that's part of the fun. The best advice I can give you is if you're really going to be disappointed with not getting the results you want, stick to a proven (for you) method. That would be my advice for film, cameras, lenses, guitars - a lot of things. But try some Provia out, it's really a nice film. Most situations will be just fine without an 81A but you might prefer the results with the filter. Only experience with the film can answer that...

[photophorous]

Did you make reservations and pay for it for me and my wife too?
You should just marry your gf, I saw your comment on RFF...
She sounds like a keeper if she is that supportive of your photography.
Brian

Oh, I didn't tell you? I booked enough rooms for everyone that gives me advice in this thread.

What is it with you married guys? Why are you always trying to get the single guy married? I didn't mean to sound quite so positive about her being supportive. She is, but only as much as she has to be.

Paul

[mtbbrian]

Oh, I didn't tell you? I booked enough rooms for everyone that gives me advice in this thread.

What is it with you married guys? Why are you always trying to get the single guy married? I didn't mean to sound quite so positive about her being supportive. She is, but only as much as she has to be.

Paul

Right On!
I have been where you are, it's just that when you are married to a great woman, you want to let the guys like you know that marriage is really good thing.
Trust me on this.
And do you know how many people who do are in rleationships would kill to have someone who is supportive of such thing? A lot.

Make sure you take your Holga too!
:thumbsup:
Brian

[photophorous]

My first inclination is to suggest Astia for everything, but you may want to take pictures when the sun is not bright, or with flash in the evening.

Astia when properly lighted is the best film but it can get dull in lower light conditions. VERY accurate, but not everybody wants perfect color, they usually want something closer to Velvia which I don't care for in that latitude. Too much haze in the air usually from the moisture and you can get blue or red spots or highlights when least expected.

Provia 400 is a wonderful compromise between flexibility and color. It is more costly. And shooting indoors and outdoors possible on the same roll means getting in developed by a good pro lab or shipping it off to Fuji (usually dirt cheap) to get it right.

Sensia (100 and 200) are great travel films, particularly shooting underwater. 100/200 ISO Sensia are about the easiest slide films to get to work under a wide range of conditions, including flash and underwater. They do have specific color/saturation/contrast performance that isn't always preferred by some photogs.

I think you can still get Sensia 400?? I haven't used it much ever and its been ?years? anyway.

Let me see if I can dig up some Astia pics, here's a flower sample I posted for someone (rick maybe??)


You can click on the flower picture to go to the gallery picture for larger image and details.


Soldier Field in Chicago, Illinois. Again click on photo for larger version and details. Not as representative as there's post processing, made with a p/s (though a really good one) and it was taken out of a car window.

Both of these were made with the older Astia 100 formulation, but 100F and the PRO are very similar. I'll see if there are any hand Astia photos with people that aren't tied up with customers. Or I'll find some.

Hope this helps some. . .

DRG,

Thanks for commenting and for including the examples. I appreciate you taking the time to do that. Frankly, your example photos appear kind of washed out to me. If that's what I should expect from Astia, then I think Provia will suite me better. I'm probably making this harder than it needs to be. Everyone has a caveat to their praise for their favorite film. I always thought exposure accuracy was the big deal with slide film, but it seems to be picky about color temperature too.

Paul

[photophorous]

best advice I can give you is if you're really going to be disappointed with not getting the results you want, stick to a proven (for you) method.

Thanks, Steve. I got a new Bessa like Brian has, and I've been eager to try it with some slide film, but I think you're right. I didn't want to take two cameras, but I think maybe I should carry my D70s along with the Bessa. I don't have much of a proven method with color film to fall back on, and I don't think the beach will look too good on Tri-X.

Paul

[photophorous]

Right On!
I have been where you are, it's just that when you are married to a great woman, you want to let the guys like you know that marriage is really good thing.
Trust me on this.
And do you know how many people who do are in rleationships would kill to have someone who is supportive of such thing? A lot.

Make sure you take your Holga too!
:thumbsup:
Brian

I hear what your saying. I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who's SOs are worse than just not supportive, they're disruptive. I know it could be a lot worse. But, if that was the case with me, we'd be talking about finding me a woman instead of why I'm not married yet. She tries and that's what counts. :thumbsup:

Paul

[drg]

DRG,

Thanks for commenting and for including the examples. I appreciate you taking the time to do that. Frankly, your example photos appear kind of washed out to me. If that's what I should expect from Astia, then I think Provia will suite me better. I'm probably making this harder than it needs to be. Everyone has a caveat to their praise for their favorite film. I always thought exposure accuracy was the big deal with slide film, but it seems to be picky about color temperature too.

Paul

That's the reason I posted these. Many don't like the results that neutral accurate film produces. Skin and people on the other hand can look icky(a technical term!) if saturated beyond a certain amount. The flower is from a catalog shoot and it is a raw 1200dpi scan, but the color is almost perfect.

Provia in the tropics or sub-tropics often works best with a Polarizer
which usually clears up the blue.

If you're still interested I'll work on digging out some samples this evening if you'd like of some of the various formulas (I pretty sure I've got Provia, Velvia and Astia at home). I know I've got that Velvia 100 stuff in the files here. Not sure I've got any P-400 samples handy.

One good thing about digital, you can shoot RAW and make it look more like you want when you get home !

I don't need reservations, I'll just sleep on the beach under a tree

[photophorous]

If you're still interested I'll work on digging out some samples this evening if you'd like of some of the various formulas

Thanks for the offer, but don't worry about digging up any more examples. This discussion has helped me narrow it down to Provia and Astia. I think the only thing I can do now is shoot a test roll of each before I go. This has all been a big help.

Paul

[another view]

Many don't like the results that neutral accurate film produces.

This comment, and one in a previous post in this thread ("VERY accurate, but not everybody wants perfect color, they usually want something closer to Velvia which I don't care for in that latitude")are important concepts.

A lot of people don't always understand this, and it could be a good thread of it's own - or blog topic. Pondering...

[mtbbrian]

and it could be a good thread of it's own - or blog topic. Pondering...

You go man!
I look forward to reading it!
:thumbsup:
Brian

[photophorous]

I don't know if anyone is interested, but I thought I'd report back on my test rolls. I shot a roll Sensia 400 and a roll of Provia 100. Sensia fit my expectations for Provia better than the Provia did, except for the grain. Sensia was more contrasty than Provia, colors where more saturated, and there was a more noticeable blue color shift in shadows. I only noticed a very slight blue shift in the shadows with Provia, and it really looked accurate to me in almost every outdoor light. Even the slight blue in the shadows looks the way I remember...I was thinking about it at the time. The grain in Sensia was very noticeable in a solid blue sky and in the shadows when you zoom in close, but otherwise not bad. The grain in Provia was barely noticeable even zooming in on a blue sky. Overall, I thought Provia did pretty well with skin tones. Sensia was not as good...made people look a little like wax sculptures.

I decided Provia will work just fine, so I'm taking four rolls as my main daylight film. I'm also taking a random assortment of four other films for back up or special purpose. I think I'm going to be brave and leave the D70s at home. My girlfriend will have her SD200 for snapshots, and I'll do better if I can focus on using one camera.

Thanks again to everyone that helped.

Paul