Before Jumping into Med Format again.......

[ComicDom1]

I wanted to ask a few questions in regard to the experiences of others who send out their 120 or 220 rolls for developing. I also have been considering buying a camera that will shoot 6 X 6 but right now I am not so sure about it.

In the past I have enjoyed using the Rollei TLR my father left me and another I bought before I went digital. I sold them when I bought my 1D digital. Even though I bought the E0S-3 (which I am still evaluating) I am considering buying a Med Format body as well. So as I am looking at Med Format cameras, I decided SLR is the best way to go at this time, and that I probably need to explore it as inexpensively as possible. While I am aware that there are many great Med Format camera's out there, I have concluded that for now, Bronica is probably my most economical choice. If I get the real bug, I can always move to a Hassey or Mamyia later and make sure I purchase a model that a digital back might be available for as well. My other option is to just shelf things for a bit, and then later go for an H1, 1Ds3, or Z when the prices come down, but then I will be getting away from film at that point.

Now that we are past that, I have a few questions for those in the know.....
This applies to both color and black and white...

1. How available is 120 and 220 film?

2. How available is 6x6 film if I decide to shoot that instead?

3. Are there many labs in the states that will just develop my negatives? Please respond to both sizes of negatives.

4. What is your avg cost to get your 6X6 and 2 1/4 negative developed?

I have a lot of learning and thinking before I continue in this direction.

I thought about processing my own Black and White negatives. That would only mean I would have to buy chemicals because I have the tanks and reels for 35mm and 2 1/4 somewhere. At least I can do those sizes, but I have not 6X6 tank or reel, but I do imagine its the same negative development process. I have never done color developing of negatives so I have no idea how difficult or expensive it would be. Maybe some of you can clue me in?

Although I have an Omega C-700 enlarger that allow me to print black and white in 35mm and 120, I do not think that is my best route to take. I also have investigated Color Enlarger's, but all that stuff takes up space, and having to print in that style means a dedicated space for a darkroom, some equipment, as well as storing all the materials and chemicals necessary for it. Even though lots of great Color enlargers are going very cheap, I do not think its the best choice for me.

I really like to do a good comparison here, and it will probably save a lot of time for me and others.

After a lot of thinking, it appears that going with developed negatives, and sticking to scanning my own to get the working file size I desire, is the most cost effective way. Of course I can always send a finished image to a professional printer and that saves me in that area as well.

I still own a dedicated 35 mm film slide scanner. I have narrowed down my choices for scanning Med Format and that will most likely be an Epson flat bed such as a 4990 if I can get and afford one. I am not sold yet on the newer Epson LED but that may be the way I have to go. Most likely the Epson 750 is the best choice if I cannot get a good used 4990. I think even a 4870 would do, and I am open to suggestions there.

While I know its probably not popular to make this statement, now I am remembering why I decided to go digital...(ducking).

Most of this depends on how affordable it is to deal with the negatives and processing. So before I buy a camera body and lenses, I need to know the pro's and con's of the other side.

Thanks in advance,

Jason

[Xia_Ke]

...While I know its probably not popular to make this statement, now I am remembering why I decided to go digital...(ducking)....

DOH! ...LOL

First off, let me say there has never been a better time to get into medium format. Prices are VERY low right now. For about $150 you can get some nice TLR's like a Rolleicord, Minolta Autocord, or a Yashicamat 124 and also some nice old folders like the Zeiss Ikonta's or Voigtlanders. Stepping up to about $250 will get you a Mamiya M645 outfit or Bronica Etr series outfit. $350 will get you a Rolleiflex Automat, Mamiya 645 Super/Pro, Pentax 645n, or Bronica SQ series. $500+ gets into Hasselblad 500 series outfits and Rolleiflex 3.5/2.8's. Of course when you get into the Rollei's and 'blads, they are highly collectible as well and pristine examples can run MUCH higher. Keep in mind, these are all Ebay prices, you'll pay a bit more going through KEH, Adorama, etc.

With medium format, 6x4.5, 6x6, 6x7, 6x9, etc is all the same film. Those are the frame sizes. It's all 120 or 220 (2 1/4) film though. 120 has a full length paper backing and will give you 12 frames of 6x6. 220 does not have a full length backing but will give you 24 frames of 6x6 as more film can fit on the reel. Be careful though because not all cameras can do both 120 and 220. With system cameras you will find separate 120 and 220 film backs or inserts. Some TLR's will offer a selectable pressure plate allowing you to swap between the 2.

We did a thread a while ago you should have a look at, Informal Self-Processing Cost Survery. This is mostly geared towards developing B&W film at home. There's still quite a few places to purchase chemicals. I would recommend checking out Freestyle. I can't really comment on developing color as I pretty shoot only B&W. There is a sticky in this forum for it though, List of film processors to use or to avoid.

Okay time for morning coffee so I can think straight...LOL

Aaron

[ComicDom1]

I did not do the self cost survey, but I have been watching a lot on ebay. I did check out freestyle and look at the sticky posted last week. In fact, I have been looking at too much and that is why I am at this point. I have checked out Keh, B&H, Helix, Calumet, Central Camera, and Adorama while looking around for good used equipment. While I loved using the TLR's and they were absolutely wonderful, I wanted to stay with a newer body. I am aware of the different backs. I also need to be careful I just do not get too much invested because its very easy to get carried away with all that is available out there now. The one thing I do not want to do is end up spending too much or buying the wrong equipment. So I have been asking a lot of questions, reading reviews, experiences, and evaluating.

I think prices will drop more because of the economy as we get closer to the holiday season but I could be wrong.

Like you say, you shoot mostly B&W and you really do not do Color. I do want the ability to develop both and I realize at this point, that just might be a matter of chemicals and getting myself trained to do it. I remember how to load the reels for the tanks, but I most likely will have to practice doing it several times before my comfort level falls back.

I guess I must of been very tired or not thinking straight after all the hours I have been up looking at equipment and other stuff for sale on line. I got posion ivy and the steroid they put me on to combat it is like speed(LOL) keeping me up most of the night and short of sleep. So its probably not a good time to make decisions. I did not even stop to think about the 120 being the same film for all of them because I never shot any thing other than the Rollei's and they were not 6x6. Thanks for pointing that out for me. At least I can do the black and white processing for that negative if I just buy the chemicals. I probably can build my own drying cabinet for them as well or pick up a used one cheap somewhere. I was just trying to minimize my costs.

I would love to have a Hassy or Mamiya, but the later models that will take a digital back if they ever come down are more expensive. I was thinking that was the way to go so if film ever does go away, I would not end up with a very expensive paper weight. As far as I know the Pentax does not have a digital back available for it, so I ruled the 645N out even though I would like to have the AF it offers. Of the three brands mentioned above, I know there are some differences in build quality. Their is also a difference in the cost of lenses and accessories.

This is where and why I started looking at Bronica. It appears to me that in the used market, a person just might be getting a little more for the money, and from what I understand, they handle like a large 35mm camera. Of course I would have to give up AF but then I might have to do that with any older model Hassy or Mamiya as well.

All I know is I have a lot to decide and a lot to learn, I am probably not the first or last person who will be in this boat.

So I sure hope you have a big pot of coffee and a lot of patience.

Jason

[ComicDom1]

I did a lot of thinking, and finally made a decision. I am going to go with Hasselblad for Medium format. So I am going to be selling some of my Canon stuff off to start with a 500cm body, prism or viewfinder, a back or two, and one or two lenses. If there is anything I left out, please let me know.

Thanks,
Jason

[Xia_Ke]

Good choice. That's what I've been eying but, unfortunately it's not in the cards right now. Make sure you read the manual on it. The 'blads have a few little quirks. If you don't do certain things in the right order you can jam or harm the camera. Also, when buying film backs, try to get backs with matching serial number inserts. Here's a link to a manual if you don;t have one already:

http://www.cameramanuals.org/prof_pd...0c_m-swc_m.pdf

[ComicDom1]

Thanks for the Info. Two days ago after I made that post and was prepared to purchase my Hassy Body, I came across what I thought was a deal. I purchased a Hasselblad 553 ELX Chrome. The one I purchased uses 5AA batteries. I got a back in the purchase along with what I understand is a rare Carl Ziess 80mm Chrome T* 2.8 lens. The seller told me that the camera had a CLA 6 months ago and is supposed to operate properly at all shutter speeds. The deal included a 14 day refund if I am not happy. Now I am waiting for the camera, lens, back, and prism to arrive. While in decent shape, there is a few place where the leather will need to be either glued back down or replaced. As soon as the camera gets here, I will photograph and document, then I will send it directly to a very experience technician who is going to evaluate it and tell me if I should keep it or it should be returned. If it checks out then he is going to go through it completely. I am letting this repair technician educate me and guide me along. I think this is important because not only do I need to be educated in regard to Hasselblad camera's I also need to establish a working relationship for future repairs. At the same time I am making sure I educate myself as well.

I am also part way to my darkroom setup. I got a deal today on an Epson V700 Scanner. I already have a Benq 2740S negative scanner so I am all set. I am curious to see how the V700 does against the Benq. If I am lucky I may be able to let it go but I really have not used it that much.

I all ready have some reels and developing tanks but I have another one coming that will hold 2 120 reels. I still have my timer but I am going have to get some chemicals and get some practice. Its been a long time since I developed black and white film, and I have never developed color.

Jason

[walterick]

Well, I'm a little late to this party

But just to throw in my two cents:
I shoot Mamiya 645 medium format and use 220 whenever possible (using 120 just makes you load film more often!) and then I run my film down to the local pro shop that develops it in 24 hours on-site. From there, I will pay them for direct prints if I want any, but more often than not I bring it home and scan it into my computer with my Epson 4990. Great machine.

This system works very well for me and I don't see the need to change it any time soon (except for getting a bigger Mamiya lol!)

[Xia_Ke]

Congrats on the new cam Jason IF you don't mind me asking, how much did it end up running you? I had looked at the ELX's before but, they always seemed like they would be really bulky, more of a studio camera. While the Planar T* lenses are not rare, it is very rare to see them in chrome. Almost all I have seen were black. Does the 553 give mirror lock-up? I'll be interested to hear your impressions when you receive the camera. PLEASE keep us posted

Aaron

[ComicDom1]

Here is a link to the auction I bought it on! Scroll down and blow up the images. I have a tech that is going to be checking it out for me. I also purchased an Epson V700 that should be here by Tuesday so I will be able to scan my negatives.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=017

Here is a link to some info about it. They did some changes to some models. The leaf Shutter is built in the lens on this model, and the one I purchased used Regular AA batteries instead of the expensive NiMH set that cost about $100 for this camera.

Jason

[Xia_Ke]

Mmmm, those old Hasselblads sure are a thing of beauty I'm not so sure that it's a T* lens though. They started the T* multicoating mid-70's IIRC and that lens dates to 1970. Looking up the body dates it to 1990. Congrats on a great camera and will be looking forward to seeing some shots.

Aaron

[megan]

1. How available is 120 and 220 film?
I have no problem purchasing either. But then, I live in NYC and go to B&H. I've found that outside of NYC, it's much hard to find 120/220 at a decent price.

3. Are there many labs in the states that will just develop my negatives? Please respond to both sizes of negatives.
Yes. I use Modernage, and they accept mailorders. They do an excellent job.

4. What is your avg cost to get your 6X6 and 2 1/4 negative developed?
Gah, here's where it starts adding up. $17/roll + tax for black and white. I can't, at the moment, find an invoice for color, but it's about the same.

[ComicDom1]

Well, I'm a little late to this party

But just to throw in my two cents:
I shoot Mamiya 645 medium format and use 220 whenever possible (using 120 just makes you load film more often!) and then I run my film down to the local pro shop that develops it in 24 hours on-site. From there, I will pay them for direct prints if I want any, but more often than not I bring it home and scan it into my computer with my Epson 4990. Great machine.

This system works very well for me and I don't see the need to change it any time soon (except for getting a bigger Mamiya lol!)

I can appreciate what you are saying in regard to 120 vs 220. I am not limited. To shoot a roll of 220, all I have to do is change the back. In fact I think the back coming with mine will allow me to put a roll of 220 in it now. The Epson 4990 is a great scanner. I almost bought one of those, but I opted for the newer V700 because I feel I got a good deal and it was new.

Jason