Advice/Experience with Medium Format Camera's

[NYArtboy]

Hey all, I know this question has been asked a lot but not quite in this manner so here goes. I am finally thinking about owning my own Medium Format (instead of renting or drooling over them in stores or online) I really like the Mamiya line because of the value/price you can get used ones for however I have these questions:

RB67 vs RZ67, what are the real differences besides the RZ is newer and more expensive

Do all the 645's support instant film backs? Or is it only the 645AF

Here is what I am looking for in a purchase:

Medium Format Film for Art Photography Primarily, Professional Portrait Secondary (When I feel I can maximize my skills enough to feel comfortable to charge for expensive film again and not digital)

Polaroid or Fuji equivalent instant film capability a must

A camera that will grow quickly with me (I don't have extensive medium format experience but I do have some and I am also very experienced with 35mm/Digital and Post Digital Production as well as do all this professionally)

Something that will keep the budget tight but the results as best they can be in this format particularly in the flexibility department.

Thanks in advance! :thumbsup:

[reverberation]

Welcome, I have an RB67, the RZ series are lighter. There are three models of RZ's the Pro IID being the newest. This model can take a digital back. All three can go to auto mode with the correct viewfinder. The RB series is strictly manual, though you can get a viewfinder with a light meter. I don't know about the 645's but I do know the RB's and RZ's take instant backs. Hope this helps.

[Xia_Ke]

Welcome to PR I'm sure others with more Mamiya experience will chime in but, let me see i I can get you started...

...RB67 vs RZ67, what are the real differences besides the RZ is newer and more expensive ...

The RB67 is fully mechanical while the RZ67 has an electronic shutter and therefor will require batteries.

...Do all the 645's support instant film backs? Or is it only the 645AF...

Not all do. You will need one that uses interchangeable film backs as some Mamiya 645's only use interchangeable inserts. IIRC the M645's and the 645E are the only ones that use inserts so you should be able to get instant film backs for all other models. Make sure to check the specs though once you decide on a model just to be certain.

What kind of shooting do you normally do or plan to do? There is a BIG size and weight difference between the 645's and the RB/RZ's. The RB/RZ's are tanks. If you will be doing location work than weight may be a factor for you. If you don't mind lugging the extra weight I would definitely go for the RB/RZ for the bigger negative size. If you're going to moving around a lot while shooting I might opt for the 645 though as it will be easier to handle. I have not shot with an RB/RZ though so this is just my 2 cents. I hope this helps a little.

Aaron

[NYArtboy]

Ok! This is good feedback so far. There is so much info out there that it is hard to put it all together cohesively.

Xia: Good question. Personally I am studio photographer at heart. I like taking my time and 'working' a shot and being in that kind of zone. It is where I am most comfortable. (1 point for the RB) However my timeout to that kind of shooting tends to lead me to journalistic where capturing a moment by chance is very fulfilling. I think that is where my last comment of 'being flexible' came from. (1 point for the 645 series) I have heard about the weight issue. Some people find the weight conducive to the kind of photography this sort of camera lends to, while other see it as great hinderance. I think I am on the fence of not caring too much. I see 60-70% studio/fixed subjects and about 30% 'on the go' like taking a trip downtown and getting a scene shot of Thompson Square Park. (1 point for the RZ) (heh, see my dilemma)

[Xia_Ke]

Thanks to digital, both are dirt cheap now. Why not get an RB and then with the money you would save over an RZ, get a 645 too?

[NYArtboy]

Thanks to digital, both are dirt cheap now. Why not get an RB and then with the money you would save over an RZ, get a 645 too?

Genius!

Actually its not a bad idea to maybe spring for a 645 down the line once I get handy with the format. Can the RB and the 645's share the same lenses?

[Xia_Ke]

No, they will not use the same lenses. Lenses for both though are insanely cheap now. It's laughable compared to what they sold for in their prime. I have a Mamiya M645 with an 80mm f/1.9 That cost me about $200 to put together. I read somewhere that the combo would have cost upwards of $3000 when it first came out in the late 70's. A lot of the 645 lenses can be had for under $100 (on Ebay) and the RB lenses will run only slightly higher, with the exception of some of the rarer lenses. One thing for lenses to keep in mind with the RB's is the compatibility of the newer lenses/bodies with the older lenses/bodies. The RB-67 Pro and ProS will work with all older Mamiya RB lenses while the newer ProSD requires either a K series lens or an adapter. I'm not sure if there is an adapter available though to use the newer K lenses with the older bodies.

[NYArtboy]

Thanks for the help Xia! I have made my decision. In part on finding an awesome deal. I found a RB67 Pro S in minty condition. Includes the 90mm f3.8 lens, 120, 220 and polaroid backs, adjustable lens bellows for 90, 127 and 180mm lenses, auxiliary side grip and both a prism finder and waist level finder. All for around $500!! I am extremely excited and thanks for all the input. Its gunna be a beast I know but I'm ready to dive in.

It should be here next week and as soon as i have negs to scan ill post em!

Only last think I want to add is the 127mm f3.8 lens. Those two lenses will keep me occupied for a long time. I have had success with keh.com in the past but if anyone has any other suggestions for a good source of used lenses let me know. I have heard bad things about ebay lenses. My local shop has a brand new one for $1400 (Ouch) and a used one he said for about $300-$350 depending on his mood. :P Anyway any suggestions will be great! :thumbsup:

[Xia_Ke]

$500 is right about what a kit like that has been going for. The guy that quoted you on the 127mm is full of crap. You can get that lens in EXC from KEH for $130 - $150 ($150 includes front/rear caps). Ebay is what it is, a giant flea market full of a lot of crap but, if you look you can find some great deals on gear. You just have to do your research. I was looking at getting an RB for a while and I can tell you you won't find the 127 for a whole lot cheaper on Ebay. I would just get one of the ones KEH has.

Aaron

Aaron

[another view]

Sounds like a very good deal on the Mamiya. I didn't realize they were down to this price level, and wish I wouldn't have read this! I was going to mention that if you're using a big and heavy camera like any of the ones you've mentioned, you might as well get a big 6x7 negative to work with instead of a 6x4.5.

As a second camera system that's a whole lot more portable, you might want to check out some of the different Fuji 645 rangefinders. I wouldn't call them pocket-sized but they're designed for handheld shooting and tiny in comparison. Fuji has made a lot of really unique (wierd, funky, cool - depends on your perspective) MF rangefinders over the years - a 645 folder, 645 autofocus, the 6x9 "Texas Leica" in two different focal lengths, etc. Cool stuff.

[NYArtboy]

That does sound cool. Thanks for tip. I will definitely check fuji out. I was a little bent on getting a Mamiya partly because I have wanted one for so long. I have a nagging feeling that once I start shooting medium format I am going to be hooked. My other thought was to pick up a TLR as that was the first medium format camera type I ever used (college) and they can be fun in a real compact format. As soon as I finish this post though, I will be checking into those fuji's.

Hey I figure on the brink of our country's economic ruin any happiness I can surround myself with that doesn't use (a) batteries or (b) gasoline the better :yesnod:

[Xia_Ke]

...My other thought was to pick up a TLR as that was the first medium format camera type I ever used (college) and they can be fun in a real compact format...

::COUGH::...::COUGH::...ROLLEI ...::COUGH...:COUGH::

If you want to check out folders, take a look at the old Zeiss Ikonta folders as well. They come in 6x4.5, 6x6, and 6x9 formats. The top models are the ones with the Tessar lenses and really nice examples can be had for under $200.

[AgingEyes]

My one and only medium format camera is the RB67. It weighs about 10 lbs with lens and film back on. If you're shooting at eye level (with the prism finder), then its weight may be a problem. If you're shooting it at waist level, 10lbs shouldn't be a major issue. Supposedly you should use this camera on a tripod. I did use it hand-held before. BTW, the fastest shutter speed of the lenses, if I remember right, is only 1/400 sec.

[NYArtboy]

Ok here are 2 polaroids I snapped off. Me and the wife are full swing into halloween at the moment so my choice of subject is what has been top of mind I guess! So far I love the camera. It was really what I was looking for. The weight is pretty daunting with the prism finder on but at waist level its great. I do see myself using this more in the studio or on controlled location shoots. I think I will take Aaron's advice and because I got the rig so cheap (I already added the 127mm lens from KEH ) I may pick up a 645 so I can be a little more mobile when I want to be.

All in all, if this thread helps anyone, the RB67 is a beast but what a great camera and experience using it. I think I found my inner child's excitement all over again.

Thanks for the help all. I'll keep posting on the forums when Im not in the darkroom!!! ;)