Video for PhotographyREVIEW.com

[Photo-John]

The time has come. It's time to wade into this video thing. We experimented with some video coverage at PMA and it was good. We did our videos with a Canon PowerShot A640 compact digital camera, which actually worked pretty well. The only real problem was that it doesn't really look pro

So for marketing reasons, next time we need to have a real video camera. Better sound control would be good, too.

I don't think HD would be of any value for our purposes. Please correct me if I'm wrong. But what we want to do will just get posted to on the Web site. And our main purposes will be tradeshow and other even coverage, some how-to's, and some review content. The review pieces would be 1-2 minute hands-on videos of digital cameras and products for our other sites. One of our main requirements is easy file transfer. That is especially critical at an event where we need to be able to shoot and then upload on location. DV is definitely out and I think we need something that can record directly to SD memory cards. Using the PowerShot at PMA and transferring from the camera's SD card worked wonderfully.

I'd also like to be able to run a wired microphone for tradeshow video. And good macro capability for small products and product details would be great, too.

I'm leaning towards Panasonic right now. I know they have hard drive video cameras that also allow you to record directly to a memory card. And I trust their optical image stabilization.

Any feedback or camera suggestions would be much appreciated. I know a ton about still cameras but only the tiniest little bit about camcorders and video. But it's time to leanr some more and get some video going on the site. So I need your expert help!

Thanks!

[SpeedingSphere]

I would suggest this video camcorder. Records right to SD, has a nice sensor comparable to some DV camcorders, built in light, only bad thing, it doesnt have a mic jack to plug in an external mic. You could record voice to a tape recorder, import, and overlay to the mpeg file, but thats probably more work than youre looking for.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation

After looking more, I would suggest this instead. Looks very nice, although quite a bit more.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

You took photos of it at PMA. its ETA is some time in may if you can wait. again, no mic jack, but ooo this camera looks so much nicer than my ZR700... lol..

[Mr Yuck]

FWIW, my Panasonic PV-DV203 viewfinder died about 4 months after getting it at costco, replaced it with the same camera because I was between houses and didnt have the box, and now, 4 years later, the viewfinder is dead.

Rewind 10 years to VHS-C
Guess what? The viewfinder doesnt work on my Panasonic VHS-C camera! Of course it died at age 15 (5 years ago)

VHS Panasonic Camcorder, kept working till the battery did not.

As technology progresses, Panasonic's reliability, in my experience, tends to go down.

(Also have a 10 year old VCR that has permanent tracking issues, got messed up at about age 7)

(1 year old 32" panasonic TV (CRT), one of the sets of RCA inputs gave up the ghost, returned TV to costco, and the JVC it was replaced with is going strong after 2 years)

Keep in mind, I wasnt the one to pick out any of these, ever since the A40 I've always been a Canon camera guy.

[MJS]

I tried 4 new panasonic 3 CCD MiniDV's in the class rotation this year. Three out of four have held up very well so far. Nice and compact, mic jack and stingy on the battery. The fourth failed to come out for the bell, so to speak, during first period today, you cant't get power going to it. I looked at the listings for the Panasonic and wasn't able to find one with a microphone input. I'll keep checking the other brands

[Mr Yuck]

ouch! 3 CCD breaking has gotta hurt.

[Photo-John]

Thanks, guys. I'm going to try to buy something this weekend because we've got the annual Sea Otter Classic bike festival next weekend. I am still leaning toward the Panasonic hard drive camcorders. Since we'll pretty much just be posting to the Web, I'm guessing that 3 CCD probably doesn't matter. Is that right?

I would like a mic input, though. I think that's important. I don't want to go Sony because I don't want to have to invest in a bunch of Memory Stick media when I've already got a 4GB SDHC card. I guess I'll look around. Any recommendations will be appreciated.

[Photo-John]

I've been looking around and I think only Panasonic has anything that fits the bill - that is, a camera that will record directly to SDHC memory, and has a line-in for a mic. This Panasonic DVD camera looks like it could do the job:

Panasonic VDR-D310

Am I missing anything here? The price looks good, it seems to have good features...

I won't even bother with the DVD recording. I only want to use memory cards. A hard drive camera would be my preference. But I can't find one.

Comments?

[Skyman]

if you have the $$$ panasonic has a 3ccd hd hard drive camera that uses a raid arrangment of pcmcia cards that take sd cards. it also has xlr mic inputs with manual volume control (as it is very hard to balance the volume of audio on the cheaper cams when using them with an external mic. but that is massive overkill from what you describe. personally i would say don't get the dvd model as i am pretty sure there is a mini dv model that does what you want and is cheaper (and even though you are not using it mini dv is a higher quality format than dvd. if i could afford the camera i want i would give you mine, as it does everything you want and i have an adpater made up so i can attach a seinheiser boom mic to the top of it! although i guess most of your stuff is in north america so you guys probably have no use for a pal camera even if it is a better format:biggrin5:

[SmartWombat]

Amen !
Why they ever opted for Never Twice the Same Color as a TV standard amazes me.

[Photo-John]

Ok, now I'm looking at the Sony DCR-SR82. It records directly to a hard drive and you can add an optional off-camera microphone - proprietary of course. Gotta love the way Sony works you over.

I'd still prefer a Panasonic. But I don't think they have what I want at a price I'm wiling to pay. I'd have to go HD, which will serve no purpose for us.

[Skyman]

those sony after market mics don't tend to provide as great an improvement in audio as they claim. also from what i understand there is no way to save a compressed format to the hdd. that being the case you are still going to have to transfer your video the the computer and convert it to a web format. i thought that was why you were going for a model that recorded to a memory card? if you are planning to edit your video and then compress it on the computer (and despite the time this takes i strongly suggest this course) then in terms of quality you can't beat mini dv over any other consumer format (as no hdd consumer cams record in uncompressed avi as it takes up to much space cutting down on recording time) so you would need to look at the $$$$pro cams anyway. also seriously i can't overstate the importance of having a 3ccd camera and as far as i know panasonic are the only manufacturer putting that in there consumer cams. not to mention leica lenses! zeiss is nice but lecia is better! do i sound biased ? my personal favourtie cameras are the canon xl2 and xl hd as they can take my eos lenses! I keep telling myself one day I will own one! sony's consumer cams have never really taken me the seems all show and no go to me. canon are great for ease of use but from memory they don't have audio inputs until you reach the top of the line ones. jvc are quite good but in australia the aftermarket support is very average. So back to panasonic and 3ccd. the vest analogy i can give you is that single ccd is like 8bit colour when compared to 16bit. you may not always see the difference in the final print but that extra information is invaluable in certain situations (like when you don't have time to white balance the camera and you have mixed lighting)

[Photo-John]

Thanks, Simon. I think I'm going to pause this project and think about it some more.

[rsimmons]

I agree with skyman. I have two Canon GL2's and a Canon XL1. I've been using them for over four years. Maybe more. Never had a problem other than a tape breaking. they are mini DV, I capture to the computer uncompressed and away I go. I've had experience with someone bringing me their camera recorded DVD and had some issues getting the vob files to work the way they should. Those camera types, imho, are good for vacations,etc. But if you want to edit, then use tape or hard disk recording. Tape, right now, is still the best to me.

[Photo-John]

Hey - thanks for the reply. I'm really having to digest a lot of information on this subject. I know tons about still photography, but very, very little about video.

The reality for me, is my main need is event video where we upload directly to the Web during the event. At PMA we used a Canon PowerShot A640 compact digital camera and, for the most part, it worked really well. If needs be, I can hand the memory card over to someone who runs it back to the press room to cut and upload, while I keep shooting. Tape and uncompressed hard drive video might be better, but they add another level of processing and a lot more time to what we're doing. That's why I really like the idea of the Panasonic hard drive cameras that can record MPEG 4 to SD and SDHC cards. It looks to me like I get the best of both worlds with those cameras. I also don't want to spend over $1000 for a camera and I want something pretty compact. I already travel with way too much camera junk.

But I'm listening. And I'm waiting. I think we'll experiment with various options at the event we're covering this week. We'll see what works and what doesn't. Then we'll have a little more information to work with. I think we'll have a couple of guys shooting with tape. I'm interested to see how they do getting stuff posted the same day they shoot it. That's the critical issue.

Thanks!

[Skyman]

Are you able to find out what the "big boys" like associated press do for their web video content? I am guessing that your video will be edited in camera to save time. I am not sure how much time it would take to render the files from a hard drive camera to a format more suitable for web. my guess is that those guys would use a live feed to a device like this http://www.canopus.com/products/Turbo/index.php or software like quick time pro (and a powerful laptop) to convert either a stream of video or mpg files from a hdd to the appropriate web format. either way i think the key here is fast conversion (especially if you are after a result that looks professional) rather than trying to find a camera that will record to a nice low bandwidth format suitable for web viewing. perhaps this is the sort of solution you are after?

[MJS]

At CNN they used to issue us a Sony PD150/170 and a Mac Book Pro with Final Cut Pro or Avid, they have since switched to the Sony HD/3 chip cameras. I'm looking into Simon's suggestion about AP and UPI and should have an answer by the end of the week. For the time being, 3 chip with a hard drive to your PC wouild seem the way to go. I just purchased the Sony Adapter for a pair of the HDR-HC3's so we can add a 3rd party mic and it works really nice, snaps right into the annoying smart shoe and gives you a single stereo mini-plug in. We then slap on a Beachtek cold mixer that gives a pair of XLR inputs.