Digital SLR Cameras Forum

Digital SLRs Forum Discuss digital SLRs, lenses, RAW conversion, or anything else related to digital SLRs. You may also want to see the Nikon, Canon, and Sony camera forums.
Digital Camera Pro Reviews >>
Read and Write Digital SLR Reviews >>
Digital SLR Buyer's Guide >>
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 42 of 42
  1. #26
    Kentucky Wildlife
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Marion, KY
    Posts
    706

    Re: Which RGB Is Best For You?

    Hey Bob,
    First of all, images are "dumbed down" for posting here--way down. Someone might be able to steal them and post them elsewhere on the net, but I doubt very much they could gain any commercial value from them. (That's hard enough for me to do with the originals and the right connections.)
    I don't mean to say it doesn't happen, because it happens to me fairly often. I occasionally find my articles, and less often my pictures, posted on obscure websites. They're not stealing them directly from me, but from print publishers who post my articles on their websites to attract subscribers to the print publications. Thieves aren't very smart, and most of them don't even take my byline or cutline credits off, and I find them easily by googling my name. (Putting watermarks or your name on images, by the way, doesn't slow thieves down in the least. They might even see it as giving the image professional credibility and more theft value.)
    Now, just for the fun of it, I have occasionally posted threatening messages on these sites, but even though it technically is an infringement upon copyright laws, prosecuting such petty operators would be much more costly than anything I could gain. Finally, I decided to accept it as a form of flattery. If a major company with a bunch of money did it, that would be different, but they wouldn’t think of doing something like that. The ones who do it are idiots who most of the time don’t have enough money to even keep up their websites for very long.
    Most of what I sell is for “one-time” rights, so it doesn’t matter where it has been published, or how many times. (Most of the articles and accompanying pictures I produce each week are sold to four to eight different publications at the same time, plus to my newspaper syndicate, which now is down to just four papers. Times are tough.) Besides, even though posting something here is technically “publishing” it, print publishers with thousands in circulation don’t consider one of the multi-millions of websites with relatively limited exposure as “published.” Not really.
    Nevertheless, what I don’t post here are images I think have cover possibilities, unless they already have been published on a cover, or images I plan to sell to publishers who buy “first rights” or “first North American serial rights.” (I’m not sure posting those images here would really make any difference to them, but I’m playing it safe.)
    I quit selling “all rights” to anything years ago when I determined I was in this for the long haul.
    I’ve found a comfortable niche in smaller markets and actually make more selling something small a half-dozen times (to publication that know me and publish almost every thing I produce) than dealing with the demands, competition and endless frustration of the better paying top markets.

  2. #27
    Mtn Bike Rider Singletracklovr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Denver, CO, USA
    Posts
    1,157

    Re: Which RGB Is Best For You?

    Most cameras come with an sRGB default setting, and for posting to the internet or having regular prints made, this is best, but for those here who aspire to have their work used in advertising and other commercial mediums, it's best to change the color space setting to aRGB.
    OK it looks like my camera (nikon d80) and the nikon software (Picture Project) does not have the ability to set the RGB. My camera choices are normal, soft, vivid, etc.

    Only my Photoshop 7 has RGB choices in the color settings.
    Since I don't print my photos' I use the Photoshop 5 default space and the xxxxx1966-2.1 workspace. I only share my photos' via the web (site like this) JPEGS stored on a thumbdrive for slideshows on computers at work and laptop to HDTV slideshows.

    As for monitor adjustments/cal I use the Adobe Gamma control panel that came with PS7 to set color temp, contrast, and gamma (brightness) with good success for my limited needs. How I justify that success is the photo color/quality looks the same on my laptop editor, home HDTV and any work computer I have shown a slideshow on.

    I know these don't help you pros but it might help others like me that don't need to print.
    Last edited by Singletracklovr; 01-23-2009 at 06:17 AM.
    Bob in Denver
    ==========
    Larger photos always available in my user gallery
    http://gallery.photographyreview.com...&ppuser=278310

  3. #28
    Kentucky Wildlife
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Marion, KY
    Posts
    706

    Re: Which RGB Is Best For You?

    I'm not familiar with that camera, but RGB setting would be in a different menu than normal, soft, vivid, etc. The menu might just say "color space," and then take you to choices. Something like that. Consult your manual.

  4. #29
    Mtn Bike Rider Singletracklovr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Denver, CO, USA
    Posts
    1,157

    Re: Which RGB Is Best For You?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Kruger
    I'm not familiar with that camera, but RGB setting would be in a different menu than normal, soft, vivid, etc. The menu might just say "color space," and then take you to choices. Something like that. Consult your manual.
    Thanks I will look in the book.
    I also thought when you shoot in RAW there was no color correction, white balance, etc.
    that you had to add that in PP. Maybe I'm just more lost in all these adjustments than I think, heehee
    -Bob
    Bob in Denver
    ==========
    Larger photos always available in my user gallery
    http://gallery.photographyreview.com...&ppuser=278310

  5. #30
    Mtn Bike Rider Singletracklovr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Denver, CO, USA
    Posts
    1,157

    Re: Which RGB Is Best For You?

    Update:
    Looking thru my nikon manual, RGB is only discussed when you want to output a JPEG from the camera directly to a printer. For capture this is not an option in my equipment.

    -Bob
    Bob in Denver
    ==========
    Larger photos always available in my user gallery
    http://gallery.photographyreview.com...&ppuser=278310

  6. #31
    Kentucky Wildlife
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Marion, KY
    Posts
    706

    Re: Which RGB Is Best For You?

    Bob--does it say then whether it is capturing in s or aRGB? Which RGB does it allow you to use when outputting to a printer? I'm thinking that if you can switch it to sRGB for printing, it's shooting in a, or vise versa. It should tell you how it is capturing somewhere.

  7. #32
    Panarus biarmicus Moderator (Sports) SmartWombat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    11,750

    Re: Which RGB Is Best For You?

    Nikon I think name them oddly.
    Color space
    • Ia (sRGB)
    • II (Adobe RGB)
    • IIIa (sRGB - optimized for landscapes)

    So you should be using colour space II for maximum gamut.
    Then convert to sRGB in software for the Web and for printing at your local WalMart/Costco lab.

    What you want is in the Shooting Menu...
    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond80/page9.asp
    Optimise Image | Custom | Color Mode | II (Adobe RGB)
    PAul

    Scroll down to the Sports Forum and post your sports pictures !

  8. #33
    Mtn Bike Rider Singletracklovr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Denver, CO, USA
    Posts
    1,157

    Re: Which RGB Is Best For You?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmartWombat
    Nikon I think name them oddly.
    Color space
    Ia (sRGB)
    II (Adobe RGB)
    IIIa (sRGB - optimized for landscapes)

    So you should be using colour space II for maximum gamut.
    Then convert to sRGB in software for the Web and for printing at your local WalMart/Costco lab.

    What you want is in the Shooting Menu...
    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond80/page9.asp
    Optimise Image | Custom | Color Mode | II (Adobe RGB)
    Hi Ron and PAul,
    thank you guys for helping me with this. I stand corrected on my last post.
    I did find the camera setting tucked deep in the manual.

    In the camera menu[d80] where you select normal, vivid, soft, etc there is a Custom choice and the RGB choices are as PAul listed.
    Ia (sRGB)
    II (Adobe RGB)
    IIIa (sRGB - optimized for landscapes)

    Im going to try PAul's suggestion an give colour space II [maximum gamut] a try.

    thanks again fellows for all your help.

    -Bob
    Bob in Denver
    ==========
    Larger photos always available in my user gallery
    http://gallery.photographyreview.com...&ppuser=278310

  9. #34
    Kentucky Wildlife
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Marion, KY
    Posts
    706

    Re: Which RGB Is Best For You?

    You do realize, however, that when you shoot in aRGB it won't look right on your computer, unless it is calibrate to it? And it won't look right here, unless you convert it to sRGB before posting.

  10. #35
    Kentucky Wildlife
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Marion, KY
    Posts
    706

    Re: Which RGB Is Best For You?

    I'm still trying to figure all this out myself and determine how it applies to my freelance business.
    I wrote a long email to one of my magazine editors to see if submitting aRGB images would cause any confusion or problems. Since almost everything they see submitted is shot in sRGB, even though they are opperating in an aRGB (graphics industry) world, they are set up to handle and covert sRGB. And, while I'm sure the design artist's monitor is calibrated, I'm not sure the editor has had the same done to his, and he is the one who makes the first choices of which images he sends to the design artist. The editor didn't really understand all this, so he sent my email to the design artist for response, and I haven't heard back from him yet. So much of what I do on this end is dependent upon what they do on that end, and since I deal with numerous publications, it gets tricky.
    Just as with deciding to shoot in RAW/JPEG to cover all possibilities, I have decided to shoot in aRGB and covert to sRGB for most submissions. I'm really going through all this because I'm planning on expanding and upgrading my markets to those who demand higher image quality (Raw or TIFF) and operate mostly in aRGB format.
    I've been getting along quite well since going digital about 8 months ago and have even had three low-compression JPEGs reproduced for 8X10 covers, but I want to be sure I don't alienate any of my present markets while aiming for higher ones.

  11. #36
    Mtn Bike Rider Singletracklovr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Denver, CO, USA
    Posts
    1,157

    Re: Which RGB Is Best For You?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Kruger
    You do realize, however, that when you shoot in aRGB it won't look right on your computer, unless it is calibrate to it? And it won't look right here, unless you convert it to sRGB before posting.
    Good Morning Ron,
    Yes, I think I understand the conversion. Shoot in aRGB and convert to sRGB as PAul suggested.
    "So you should be using colour space II for maximum gamut.
    Then convert to sRGB in software for the Web and for printing at your local WalMart/Costco lab.-PAul
    Right now I do not print any of my work. I share and view all my photos via the computer and web.

    I am still a little unclear if this color space setting is used when shooting in RAW only.

    I down load my RAW photos using the Nikon Project software and then export them to PS7 for PP'ing. A popup box asks me for white balance info and color space. Which leads me to think the RAW photo does not use the color space settings. If I was shooting RAW plus JPEG then it would use that info for the JPEG only.

    What do you think?
    Is your RAW photo changed with RGB changes in the color space?

    -Bob
    Last edited by Singletracklovr; 01-26-2009 at 09:10 AM.
    Bob in Denver
    ==========
    Larger photos always available in my user gallery
    http://gallery.photographyreview.com...&ppuser=278310

  12. #37
    Kentucky Wildlife
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Marion, KY
    Posts
    706

    Re: Which RGB Is Best For You?

    Bob, I'm pretty sure the popup box you're getting is strictly a PS7 post-production feature (I set mine to do the same thing) and has nothing to do with any difference in how your camera processes RAW or JPEG images.
    I believe when you set your camera to aRBG, it shoots everything in aRGB.
    I've just set PS7 to ask me about color space and haven't yet run both RAW and JPEG through it, and if I'm reading you correctly, I suspect from what you say that it automatically asks you to choose color space on RAW images and maybe you have to pull down a menu to change it for JPEGs?
    Just guess here, because most people who shoot only in JPEG don't usually get into color space settings and most cameras come with a sRGB default. Maybe it assumes that if you bring a JPEG in, you not only don't want to mess with RGB settings, a pop-up menu would be confusing.

  13. #38
    Mtn Bike Rider Singletracklovr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Denver, CO, USA
    Posts
    1,157

    Re: Which RGB Is Best For You?

    Good Morning Ron,
    I am slowly getting this, I think my confusion is my understanding of what RAW is.
    I thought RAW ment no WB and no RGB variables. You know RAW data, only ISO, shutter speed and f stop.
    Then you add all the other info in PP.

    What I am finding out is, the cameras settings for WB and RGB do effect your photo when shooting in RAW only.

    It looks like, I need a warm day to go out in the back yard with my camera, tripod and a notebook. Pick one colorful subject and just try each of these settings.

    I'm enjoying this discussion. Thanks for sticking with me.

    -Bob
    Bob in Denver
    ==========
    Larger photos always available in my user gallery
    http://gallery.photographyreview.com...&ppuser=278310

  14. #39
    Senior Member Medley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Hillsboro, OR, USA
    Posts
    919

    Re: Which RGB Is Best For You?

    Hi there!

    Raw will record values such as white balance and color space, but does not lock them in. They can then be altered in the Raw converter with no loss of information.

    The "no loss of information" part is where the Raw converter differs from doing the same thing in Photoshop itself. Commands such as Levels and Curves change the image drastically, and some information is discarded.

    White Balance is important to get right. Light is measured in degrees Kelvin, and the "warmer" light (such as indoor incandescent lighting) gives off a yellow glow, while "cool" light (outdoors on a cloudy day) emits a bluish tone. Get the balance wrong, and you give every color in your image an unwanted color cast.

    So, how do you know what the color temperature was at the instant you took the picture? The old-school answer to that is a grey card. A grey card is just what it sounds like, a piece of cardboard with a know shade of grey (say 50%, for example). The first image you take under a given lighting condition is to fill the camera frame with that grey image. The do the rest of your shoot normally. If the lighting changes, shoot the grey card again. When you start processing your images, you open the grey card, and tell The Raw converter to alter the white balance so that that image shows up as 50% grey. Then you apply that exact same adjustment to all images shot under the same lighting conditions. Bingo! spot-on white balance conversion.

    That's the theory anyway. It sometimes doesn't work that way though. If you use a flash, you can create a brighter spot on the grey card, due to reflection. Now, which area is truly 50% grey??? Besides, it's always better to get things right in the camera, if possible, right?

    To learn how to do that, Google the term ExpoDisc. It's not going to be inexpensive, but how important is getting the color of your images exactly right in camera?

    Food for thought,

    - Joe U.
    I have no intention of tiptoeing through life only to arrive safely at death.

  15. #40
    Senior Member OldClicker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Mundelein, IL USA
    Posts
    4,075

    Re: Which RGB Is Best For You?

    Quote Originally Posted by Singletracklovr
    Good Morning Ron,
    I am slowly getting this, I think my confusion is my understanding of what RAW is.
    I thought RAW ment no WB and no RGB variables. You know RAW data, only ISO, shutter speed and f stop.
    Then you add all the other info in PP.

    What I am finding out is, the cameras settings for WB and RGB do effect your photo when shooting in RAW only.

    It looks like, I need a warm day to go out in the back yard with my camera, tripod and a notebook. Pick one colorful subject and just try each of these settings.

    I'm enjoying this discussion. Thanks for sticking with me.

    -Bob
    I think your original though was close to being correct. But the RAW does not contain ISO, shutter speed and f/stop, it has intensities that are the result of those settings. A RAW 'image' looks something like this (below) except that each pixel also has an intensity.



    Then based on the intensity/color of each pixel and of those around it, the converter renders this into an image using a mathematical transform (Bayer for the type shown). Your camera settings (WB, etc.) are used to initially view the image, because it has to use something.

    TF
    -----------------
    I am no better than you. I critique to teach myself to see.
    -----------------
    Feel free to edit my photos or do anything else that will help me learn.
    -----------------
    Sony/Minolta - way more gear than talent.

  16. #41
    Mtn Bike Rider Singletracklovr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Denver, CO, USA
    Posts
    1,157

    Re: Which RGB Is Best For You?

    I think your original though was close to being correct. But the RAW does not contain ISO, shutter speed and f/stop, it has intensities that are the result of those settings.
    Hi OC,
    My bad, I didn't state that very well.
    I thought when shooting in RAW the only thing that effects the capture was ISO, shutter speed and f-stop. Then in PP you corrected for WB, saturation, etc.
    Thanks for the help.
    -Bob
    Bob in Denver
    ==========
    Larger photos always available in my user gallery
    http://gallery.photographyreview.com...&ppuser=278310

  17. #42
    Panarus biarmicus Moderator (Sports) SmartWombat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    11,750

    Re: Which RGB Is Best For You?

    Correct.
    The ISO setting affects the amplifier sensitivity, and the shutter speed and aperture the amount of light reaching the sensor. You can't adjust those after the image is stored.
    What RAW gives you in addition to the rgbg pixels is the camera settings, and when the file is displayed those are used to reconstruct the image using the WB and sharpening choices set in camera.
    Or for quick preview of Canon .CR2 the built-in jpeg low resolution image can be used.
    PAul

    Scroll down to the Sports Forum and post your sports pictures !

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •