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  1. #1
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    Question PLEASE Help a Student Out!

    First of, my apologies for what I am sure is a redundant question. However with a little advice I can get shooting straight away and hopefully become part of this photography community.

    I am a student who is going to begin courses in Photography with in this year. A digital SLR is required I have began to seriously think of photography as a career. I will be trying out many different styles and disciplines, photojournalism, fine art, portrait, commercial and weddings. With my main focus being in Photojournalism specifically Sports, Football and Mixed Martial Arts. I will be looking for a camera which would fit into a students budget with the quality of pictures that I could

    a) Submit to the local Newspapers and magazines
    b) Photograph some local high school football games and sell prints from my website
    c) Be able to handle private modeling..etc
    d) Not be too totally confusing me as it will be a learn as I go type of venture and I would like to have started on my portfolio before I start school.

    I am a student so I don't have the megabucks but I have thought about this seriously enough to empty out my wallet for.

    I have been looking at these various models

    Sony Alpha DSLR A230
    Canon EOS Rebel T1i
    Canon EOS 40D (w/ 28mm-135mm lens)

    However I am quite lost, please help! Any of your expertise and advice will be greatly appreciated,

    I apologize once again for a question that I am sure is asked and answered every day, please see it inside of you to help out this eager student!

    Thanks,
    - OL

  2. #2
    Be serious Franglais's Avatar
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    Re: PLEASE Help a Student Out!

    Nice post, well laid out, no spelling mistakes. Pity you're not considering Nikon. I don't know any of the cameras you mention, but one thing catches the eye:

    - the 28-135 is an old lens designed for a film camera. It doesn't have a wide-angle setting on the 40D. You really need an 18-something.
    - avoid the 18-55 Canon unless it's the latest IS version. It got really poor reviews
    Charles

    Nikon D800, D7200, Sony RX100m3
    Not buying any more gear this year. I hope

  3. #3
    Senior Member Anbesol's Avatar
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    Re: PLEASE Help a Student Out!

    If you are looking to get into this professionally - then definitely look into a pro-grade body. As such, the 40D is the easy pick of those 3.

    The 40D will have the more rugged and durable body, as well as a more comprehensive and responsive controls. It has 2 control dials, so manual mode has a dedicated aperture/shutter switch, as opposed to a button combo switch. And thats just a drop in the bucket, the whole interface is built much better for full manual control.

    Getting correct exposures is a critical skill to develop for photography, kick auto stuff out the door, you don't learn from auto. Of the 3 cameras you mentioned, I think the 40D is the best one to learn on, and to rely on as well.

    Dont forget though - the lens is more important than the body. Lens' are also super expensive, so with a limited budget (yeah me too), a lens assortment is something that you'll build up over time. Get yourself at least the nifty fifty (50mm f/1.8), and start looking into other primes or f/2.8 zooms.

  4. #4
    Senior Member BlueRob's Avatar
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    Re: PLEASE Help a Student Out!

    From those 3 I agree with Anbesol the 40D is the one to go, just keep in mind that is heavier than the others ones...so if you want something lighter think on the T1i.
    Now since budget is something to look for I might suggest that you take a peek on the Canon XSi it is more affordable than the other canons listed and quality wise it is excellent, though the 40D will perform a little better in higher ISOs but not by much IMO.

    I would pick a cheaper body (XSi) and put the rest of the money on some nice lens or lenses as suggested above.

    Canon XSi
    Canon EF-S 17-85mm IS USM
    Canon EF-S 55-250mm IS
    1. "A true photograph need not be explained, nor can it be contained in words."Ansel Adams
    2. "Photography is more than a medium for factual communication of ideas. It is a creative art."Ansel Adams

  5. #5
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    Re: PLEASE Help a Student Out!

    Quote Originally Posted by Franglais
    Nice post, well laid out, no spelling mistakes. Pity you're not considering Nikon.
    Thanks you. If you have a Nikon to recommend I am all ears!

    Quote Originally Posted by Anbesol
    If you are looking to get into this professionally - then definitely look into a pro-grade body. As such, the 40D is the easy pick of those 3.
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueRob
    I would pick a cheaper body (XSi) and put the rest of the money on some nice lens or lenses as suggested above
    Does the XSI have enough quality for me to submit pictures I take on it to the local newspaper? I also have a connection at the SportingNews who would gladly look at any pictures I send him and consider them for print. Would buying an XSI hurt me down the road when I really need to upgrade? What would be best for sports events and lower light music events? If I get the XSI what are some lenses I should start looking at straight away.

    Sorry for the numerous questions, please answer!

    Thank you
    - O

  6. #6
    Senior Member BlueRob's Avatar
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    Re: PLEASE Help a Student Out!

    Quote Originally Posted by OLC37
    Does the XSI have enough quality for me to submit pictures I take on it to the local newspaper? I also have a connection at the SportingNews who would gladly look at any pictures I send him and consider them for print. Would buying an XSI hurt me down the road when I really need to upgrade? What would be best for sports events and lower light music events? If I get the XSI what are some lenses I should start looking at straight away.

    Sorry for the numerous questions, please answer!

    Thank you
    - O
    Quality? Oh yes! the XSi is some cases deliver better pixel per pixel detail than the newer T1i and has plenty 12 megapixel resolution which is more than enough for magazine size shots and medium format prints...
    The 40D is a very popular model with great quality and its a more "pro" body. I chose the XSi since its cheaper and lighter but the D40 delivers greater quality (not much IMO considering the price difference) and has some oriented "pro features". Buying a camera depends much on budget and the truth is that if you are considering photography as a career Im sure you will want to change the body in a mid term no matter which one you choose right now from these 2 options, that is why I suggested to go for a cheaper and "entry" level SLR...the XSi. The lenses you will buy will work on your next body when you upgrade, that if you dont go full frame (big bucks).

    Lenses, well since you want to shoot a broad range of stuff is hard to mention specifics...I`ll give you some "budget" options....the 50mm f1.8, great prime for 100 bucks or so, the 17-85 better than the kit lens, the 70-300 good entry telefoto with IS....there a a good bunch of Canon lenses for tastes and applications, some cheap other not so much.
    Other members with more canon background might mention other options.

    Canon XSi
    Canon EF-S 17-85mm IS USM
    Canon EF-S 55-250mm IS
    1. "A true photograph need not be explained, nor can it be contained in words."Ansel Adams
    2. "Photography is more than a medium for factual communication of ideas. It is a creative art."Ansel Adams

  7. #7
    project forum co-moderator Frog's Avatar
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    Re: PLEASE Help a Student Out!

    If you want to investigate Nikon, look at D90 or D300. If you got real bucks then go with D700 which is a full frame camera. D90 least expensive but excellent. D700 most expensive.
    You can use almost any digital camera for newspaper shots. The images in newspapers aren't exactly high quality. The important part for newspapers is getting the shot.
    Keep Shooting!

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  8. #8
    member Kag12's Avatar
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    Re: PLEASE Help a Student Out!

    ill second that frog.
    i got my D90 a week ago and im really impressed and love it!
    carrying it around everywhere! great starter DSLR!
    kyle:thumbsup:

    Nikon D90
    Tamron 18-270mm f/3.5-6.3
    Nikkor 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G VR ED
    Tamron 70-300 f/4-5.6 AF macro (1:2)

  9. #9
    Be serious Franglais's Avatar
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    Nikon answer

    If I was Nikon Marketing I would say you should buy a Nikon D90. Here is my reasoning:

    1. You are starting a system which will grow with your professional career. The only two manufacturers that count are Canon and Nikon. Sony are trying to break into the professional market, they make some nice cameras but I would go with the crowd.

    2. Choose a camera which works the same way as the professional models, has much the same logic and controls, etc. This eliminates the consumer models like the Nikon D3000, D5000 and the Canon Ti1. It leaves you with the Canon 40D and Nikon D90

    3. Video. Ugh. Real photographers don't care about video. However local newspapers and web sites may need it when you cover an event. You can't ignore it. This eliminates the Canon 40D

    4. Your budget. What you really want is the Nikon D300s with the 16-85VR but it's too expensive. The 18-105VR kit lens is plastic but good and Nikon almost give it away in a kit with the D90. It's a good start.
    Charles

    Nikon D800, D7200, Sony RX100m3
    Not buying any more gear this year. I hope

  10. #10
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    Re: PLEASE Help a Student Out!

    Thank you all for your replies. I went browsing today and I may of stumbled upon quite the bargain

    Canon 50D with 28 - 235mm Lens + 70 - 300mm IS telephoto lens
    + backpack carry case all for 1859.97
    Is this a good deal and will those two lenses be enough for my two main focuses (Photojournalism/sports) and portrait modeling. Would I still need the "Nifty 50 lens"

  11. #11
    member Kag12's Avatar
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    Re: PLEASE Help a Student Out!

    Quote Originally Posted by OLC37
    Thank you all for your replies. I went browsing today and I may of stumbled upon quite the bargain

    Canon 50D with 28 - 235mm Lens + 70 - 300mm IS telephoto lens
    + backpack carry case all for 1859.97
    Is this a good deal and will those two lenses be enough for my two main focuses (Photojournalism/sports) and portrait modeling. Would I still need the "Nifty 50 lens"
    just to clarify, its the 50D with a 28-235mm? i have not heard of this lens before.
    are you sure its not the 28-135mm lens?
    i think you need a lens at 18mm personally, but i like my wide angles.
    also the nifty fifty is a barging and will still come in useful for low light! i have an 18-105 and 70-300 and i will still get the 50mm for low light use.
    kyle:thumbsup:

    Nikon D90
    Tamron 18-270mm f/3.5-6.3
    Nikkor 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G VR ED
    Tamron 70-300 f/4-5.6 AF macro (1:2)

  12. #12
    Snap Happy CaraRose's Avatar
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    Re: PLEASE Help a Student Out!

    Just a note, the 50D is a crop sensor. If you think you may need wide angle shots (inside events in close quarters pop into mind), 28mm will not be wide enough.

    The nifty fifty is just a great little lens for the money. If you're doing indoor shoots, bear in mind you may need to invest in a better flash than the pop up that comes with the camera.
    --Cara

    Canon 60D
    Canon XSi
    Canon 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 IS
    Canon 24-105mm f/4 L IS
    Canon 55-250mm F4-5.6 IS
    Canon 100mm 2.8L IS Macro
    Canon 300mm F4 L IS
    Canon 50mm F1.8
    Tokina SD 12-24mm F/4 DX

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  13. #13
    project forum co-moderator Frog's Avatar
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    Re: PLEASE Help a Student Out!

    Also, be sure to check the recommended sites and sites to avoid thread. Grandpaw does a good job of keeping it up to date.

    Recommended sites and sites to avoid

    You have to watch out for those deals
    Keep Shooting!

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    Please refrain from editing my photos without asking.

  14. #14
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    Re: PLEASE Help a Student Out!

    Ok I just talked to someone at the school and they said a 40D might be a little much right now for someone starting out and lower models offer enough quality to put together a good portfolio and have submissions accepted in newspapers. With that said I think I am going to go for

    Canon EOS Rebel XSi Digital SLR Camera (Body only)
    Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II Camera Lens

    and...
    This is where I ask of your assistance again, someone please suggest the final lens I need for shooting sports mainly Football/Mixed Martial Arts events. Please help me find the last piece of this puzzle as I am eager to get snapping away!

  15. #15
    member Kag12's Avatar
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    Re: PLEASE Help a Student Out!

    Im sure someone will come in with better advice but I would look at a 70-200mm IS lens, they tend to be expensive lenses, but they are worth it!
    The Canon 70-200mm f/4L should do the trick if you can afford it, f/2.8 is even better, but more expensive.
    hope this helps a little
    kyle:thumbsup:

    Nikon D90
    Tamron 18-270mm f/3.5-6.3
    Nikkor 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G VR ED
    Tamron 70-300 f/4-5.6 AF macro (1:2)

  16. #16
    Senior Member BlueRob's Avatar
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    Re: PLEASE Help a Student Out!

    Quote Originally Posted by OLC37
    Ok I just talked to someone at the school and they said a 40D might be a little much right now for someone starting out and lower models offer enough quality to put together a good portfolio and have submissions accepted in newspapers. With that said I think I am going to go for

    Canon EOS Rebel XSi Digital SLR Camera (Body only)
    Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II Camera Lens

    and...
    This is where I ask of your assistance again, someone please suggest the final lens I need for shooting sports mainly Football/Mixed Martial Arts events. Please help me find the last piece of this puzzle as I am eager to get snapping away!
    I already gave you some hints but bare in mind that there are a quite a few options out there and that makes it harder to give you specifics but if you want to and pick the best lens your money can buy and that suits your needs you might want to take a peek in here and make the call on your own....lots of Canon lenses reviewed and compared, there is also a section with this guy`s suggestions according to specific needs, like travel, wedding, etc.
    Hope this helps.

    http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/

    Canon XSi
    Canon EF-S 17-85mm IS USM
    Canon EF-S 55-250mm IS
    1. "A true photograph need not be explained, nor can it be contained in words."Ansel Adams
    2. "Photography is more than a medium for factual communication of ideas. It is a creative art."Ansel Adams

  17. #17
    Senior Member Anbesol's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Franglais
    If I was Nikon Marketing I would say you should buy a Nikon D90. Here is my reasoning:

    1. You are starting a system which will grow with your professional career. The only two manufacturers that count are Canon and Nikon. Sony are trying to break into the professional market, they make some nice cameras but I would go with the crowd.
    Sorry Charlie. Im sure you've heard that expression plenty, my name is Charlie too, everybody thinks they are the first to say it to me. Hyuck hyuck.

    I have to strongly disagree with your reasoning here. To throw a blind eye to canon and nikons competitors simply for their *present* market control. I remember a few years back when Canon was dominating all by itself..

    We need to feed on the competition of the industry, so they keep feeding us with excellent technological advancement.

    OLC37 - Tamrons 70-200 f/2.8 is probably the best deal out there on an f/2.8 telephoto zoom. Canons 70-200 f/2.8L IS is better, especially as far as build quality and the benefit of IS. But for a budget, that Tamron 70-200 f/2.8 is excellent.

  18. #18
    Senior Member OldClicker's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon answer

    "If I was Nikon Marketing I would say you should buy a Nikon D90. Here is my reasoning:"

    IF????

    "1. You are starting a system which will grow with your professional career. The only two manufacturers that count are Canon and Nikon. Sony are trying to break into the professional market, they make some nice cameras but I would go with the crowd."

    A lot of non-Canikon pros are going to be real surprised to hear this.

    I'm going to stop typing now.

    TF
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    I am no better than you. I critique to teach myself to see.
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    Feel free to edit my photos or do anything else that will help me learn.
    -----------------
    Sony/Minolta - way more gear than talent.

  19. #19
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    Re: PLEASE Help a Student Out!

    Tamron 70-200 f/2.8 is excellent will this fit on a Canon camera?

  20. #20
    Be serious Franglais's Avatar
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    Re: PLEASE Help a Student Out!

    Quote Originally Posted by OLC37
    Tamron 70-200 f/2.8 is excellent will this fit on a Canon camera?
    Yes it will it as long as you buy the Canon mount version obviously.

    Now for the Sony fans : I have the impression that professional photography can be fiercely competetive. Everybody tends to use the same material which the buzz says is the best. Anybody using other material might be looked down upon. The guy using brand X may find he's reduced his competivity.

    So tell me I'm wrong and life's not like that.

    BTW I got this impression from watching discussions on other sites, where people are much less polite than here.
    Charles

    Nikon D800, D7200, Sony RX100m3
    Not buying any more gear this year. I hope

  21. #21
    Senior Member OldClicker's Avatar
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    Re: PLEASE Help a Student Out!

    Quote Originally Posted by Franglais

    BTW I got this impression from watching discussions on other sites, where people are much less polite than here.
    Yes, those sights attract that type. I would really hate to see that here. - TF
    -----------------
    I am no better than you. I critique to teach myself to see.
    -----------------
    Feel free to edit my photos or do anything else that will help me learn.
    -----------------
    Sony/Minolta - way more gear than talent.

  22. #22
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    Re: PLEASE Help a Student Out!

    Ok guys this is what I decided on due to me being relativley green and budget.

    Canon EOS Rebel XSI Digital Camera
    ef 50MM F/1.8 II Autofocus Lens
    Canon Zoom Telephoto EF 75-300mm f/4.0-5.6 III USM Autofocus Lens

    I believe those should suffice yes? The reviews for that Zoom Telephoto said it does the job in regards to sports.

  23. #23
    Snap Happy CaraRose's Avatar
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    Re: PLEASE Help a Student Out!

    Quote Originally Posted by OLC37
    Ok guys this is what I decided on due to me being relativley green and budget.

    Canon EOS Rebel XSI Digital Camera
    ef 50MM F/1.8 II Autofocus Lens
    Canon Zoom Telephoto EF 75-300mm f/4.0-5.6 III USM Autofocus Lens

    I believe those should suffice yes? The reviews for that Zoom Telephoto said it does the job in regards to sports.
    Were your reviews for the IS or the non-IS version of the 75-300?

    I've yet to read a good review for the non IS version of the 75-300mm. The IS version has gotten decent reviews. I believe, though, the 75-300 was discontinued and replaced by the 70-300, which is an altogether better lens.
    --Cara

    Canon 60D
    Canon XSi
    Canon 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 IS
    Canon 24-105mm f/4 L IS
    Canon 55-250mm F4-5.6 IS
    Canon 100mm 2.8L IS Macro
    Canon 300mm F4 L IS
    Canon 50mm F1.8
    Tokina SD 12-24mm F/4 DX

    My stuff on Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/35592266@N05

    My photo blog: http://adventureswithnaturephotography.blogspot.com/

  24. #24
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    Re: PLEASE Help a Student Out!

    Quote Originally Posted by CaraRose
    Were your reviews for the IS or the non-IS version of the 75-300?

    I've yet to read a good review for the non IS version of the 75-300mm. The IS version has gotten decent reviews. I believe, though, the 75-300 was discontinued and replaced by the 70-300, which is an altogether better lens.
    The reviews on BH were for the non I.S version. Located Here
    Should I steer clear of this lens altogether? Is their any I.S or better alternatives close to that price range instead of this 75-300 USM non IS?

  25. #25
    Snap Happy CaraRose's Avatar
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    Re: PLEASE Help a Student Out!

    Here's one of the reviews I read for that lens.

    http://www.the-digital-picture.com/R...ns-Review.aspx

    The EF-S 55-250mm IS is about $255 retail. I can speak personally as I own it, and while it doesn't compare to high end canon lenses, it's a nice lens that takes decent shots. You will lose the 50mm of range on the telephoto range though.

    A review for the 55-250 from the same site, a bit more favorable than the 75-300:

    http://www.the-digital-picture.com/R...ns-Review.aspx

    The 70-300 IS is definitely better than both of them. But I believe it runs in the $500+ range. I think used you might be able to get it for around $400.
    --Cara

    Canon 60D
    Canon XSi
    Canon 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 IS
    Canon 24-105mm f/4 L IS
    Canon 55-250mm F4-5.6 IS
    Canon 100mm 2.8L IS Macro
    Canon 300mm F4 L IS
    Canon 50mm F1.8
    Tokina SD 12-24mm F/4 DX

    My stuff on Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/35592266@N05

    My photo blog: http://adventureswithnaturephotography.blogspot.com/

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