HELP! What lenses for the D70s that aren't expensive

[markcoleman]

After about 6months research I have decided to buy my first ever SLR, and digital at that. I have chosen (not bought yet) the D70s, as I want a camera that I can keep for many years and grow with. My question is what lenses should I start with???

I hear that the Nikon AF-S 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5 DX lens that comes as part of the kit is a good lens, is this the case? If could I simply use that as my everyday lens? Also I assume I would then need to buy a 70-200 or 300mm lens as well, is the Nikon AF-D 70-300mm f/4-5.6 ED any good???

An alternative is to buy the D70s body and then add a Sigma 18-50mm f2.8 DC EX lens (i assume this is better because of the larger aperture?) or I could simply buy either the Sigma 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 DC, or Tamron AF18-200mm F/3.5-6.3 XR Di-II LD Aspherical [IF] Macro (winner of TIPA best consumer lens). If I went for the 18-200mm lense it would mean I only need one lens. However I assume if I was shotting indoors this lens may not be sufficient.

As you can probably tell I am a complete novice and therefore need as much help on this as possible.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Franglais]

After about 6months research I have decided to buy my first ever SLR, and digital at that. I have chosen (not bought yet) the D70s, as I want a camera that I can keep for many years and grow with. My question is what lenses should I start with???

I hear that the Nikon AF-S 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5 DX lens that comes as part of the kit is a good lens, is this the case? If could I simply use that as my everyday lens? Also I assume I would then need to buy a 70-200 or 300mm lens as well, is the Nikon AF-D 70-300mm f/4-5.6 ED any good???

An alternative is to buy the D70s body and then add a Sigma 18-50mm f2.8 DC EX lens (i assume this is better because of the larger aperture?) or I could simply buy either the Sigma 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 DC, or Tamron AF18-200mm F/3.5-6.3 XR Di-II LD Aspherical [IF] Macro (winner of TIPA best consumer lens). If I went for the 18-200mm lense it would mean I only need one lens. However I assume if I was shotting indoors this lens may not be sufficient.

As you can probably tell I am a complete novice and therefore need as much help on this as possible.

Thanks in advance for your help.

The 18-70 DX Nikon that comes with the D70s is an excellent lens (and it's cheap when bought in the kit). I use it most of the time. As a second lens I'm waiting for the Nikon 55-200 DX. This is supposed to be small, inexpensive - and usually Nikon lenses are good.

For indoor use remember that you can boost the sensor sensitivity to 1600 ISO. Rather than spending extra on an f2.8 lens I would put the money aside for a SB600 flash.

I steer away from the "do-everything" lenses like the 18-200 because there must be some quality compromise somewhere. However the reveiws of the Sigma lens are good.

Charles

[markcoleman]

Charles,

Thanks for the info, especially re. changing ISO sensitivty rather than going for the larger aperture, I assume you can still get a reasonable depth of field with the 18-70mm lense. One final question does anyone know when the Nikon 55-200 DX lense is due out? I.e. in 2005??

Thanks again.

[Franglais]

Charles,

Thanks for the info, especially re. changing ISO sensitivty rather than going for the larger aperture, I assume you can still get a reasonable depth of field with the 18-70mm lense. One final question does anyone know when the Nikon 55-200 DX lense is due out? I.e. in 2005??

Thanks again.

The Nikon 55-200 DX lens should be available any time now, but here's the catch - as it's being made available in a kit with the D50 and the new 18-55 DX, I suspect that it will be a while before its actually available as a separate item. That's what happened with the 18-70, anyway. Of course you could get the D50 kit with the 18-55 and 55-200 and probably save yourself some money, but I haven't seen a review of the 18-55 yet so I don't know what it's like. The 18-70 is the equivalent of the 28-105 for film cameras - a classic.

Now about getting "reasonable depth of field with the 18-70mm". You got me puzzled there. At a given focal length and aperture the depth of field will be the same for any lens. The shorter the focal length, the greater the depth of field. The wider the aperture, the less the depth of field. These are constants.

Charles

[markcoleman]

Apologises,

The depth of field clearly shows my lack of knowledge, and using my words incorrectly. I thought that if you had a bigger maximum aperture lens i.e. f2.8 vs a smaller one say f3.5-4.5 it meant that you could shoot with a larger aperture and therefore get a smaller depth of field, however with a smaller aperture lens it means you would get a greater depth of field, i.e. like a compact camera. I wonder if the advice I was given was saying that it is best to go for a larger aperture lens because when you shoot at a couple of stops down (is that right terminology) it is crystal clear, therefore with the f2.8 it would be very good at say f4 whereas the f3.5-4.6 would be best at f6 or higher...is this the case.

I apologise if these are simple questions, however they are helping out no end.

Thanks again

[Franglais]

Apologises,

The depth of field clearly shows my lack of knowledge, and using my words incorrectly. I thought that if you had a bigger maximum aperture lens i.e. f2.8 vs a smaller one say f3.5-4.5 it meant that you could shoot with a larger aperture and therefore get a smaller depth of field, however with a smaller aperture lens it means you would get a greater depth of field, i.e. like a compact camera. I wonder if the advice I was given was saying that it is best to go for a larger aperture lens because when you shoot at a couple of stops down (is that right terminology) it is crystal clear, therefore with the f2.8 it would be very good at say f4 whereas the f3.5-4.6 would be best at f6 or higher...is this the case.

I apologise if these are simple questions, however they are helping out no end.

Thanks again

Three concepts to separate here:

Depth of field: this is a constant for a given focal length/aperture combination, for any lens, on a given camera. It means the range of distances between which the image appears to be sharp. For instance if you're focussed an 2 metres your depth of field might be from 1 to 3 metres at f8 but only 1.9 to 2.1 metres at f2.8

Definition: the ability of the lens to resolve detail (at the distance its focussed at). Typically lenses are a little "soft" at maximum aperture (example f2.8) and sharpen up to an optimum two stops down (that's f5.6 in our example) and carry on giving good results till f16 where diffraction sets in. Some lenses break the rules - I must say I haven't noticed any difference in the definition of my 18-70 DX Nikon at any aperture in real picture-taking.

Available-light lenses: If you shoot a low-light scene at 70 mm with the 18-70 DX then your exposure might be 1/30 f4.5 (the 18-70 has an effective aperture of f4.5 at 70mm). In the same conditions with a 28-70 f2.8 then you can shoot at 1/90 f2.8 which is much more useful for stopping action. You can always increase the ISO setting on the D70 but 1600ISO is the limit and you really want to avoid this setting because there's quite a lot of noise.

Charles

[markcoleman]

Charles,

Thanks again, as I said this is extremely helpful stuff. After reading your reply I had a few other questions...sorry to be a pain

1) What ISO range is best to shoot at? i.e. is it always advisable to stay within the 200-800 range?? so for example I assume you would us a lower ISO (eg. 200) for outside landscape vs a higher ISO for indoor picture photos? Are there any general rules of thumb??

2) You mention 2 stops down, I know that corresponds to the aperture but what are the f stops in order as I have heard 1.8, 2.8, 3.5, 4.5, 5.6, 6.3 are these all full stops?? If so how do we get from f2.8 to f5.6 in two stops? And what is therefore 2 stops down on the 18-70DX lens?

3) What is the rule of thumbs about the minimum shutter sped to avoid camera shake? I know it has something to do with the lens, i.e. faster speed when at 300mm vs 70mm. But any points??

Thanks again

[Franglais]

Charles,

Thanks again, as I said this is extremely helpful stuff. After reading your reply I had a few other questions...sorry to be a pain

1) What ISO range is best to shoot at? i.e. is it always advisable to stay within the 200-800 range?? so for example I assume you would us a lower ISO (eg. 200) for outside landscape vs a higher ISO for indoor picture photos? Are there any general rules of thumb??

2) You mention 2 stops down, I know that corresponds to the aperture but what are the f stops in order as I have heard 1.8, 2.8, 3.5, 4.5, 5.6, 6.3 are these all full stops?? If so how do we get from f2.8 to f5.6 in two stops? And what is therefore 2 stops down on the 18-70DX lens?

3) What is the rule of thumbs about the minimum shutter sped to avoid camera shake? I know it has something to do with the lens, i.e. faster speed when at 300mm vs 70mm. But any points??

Thanks again

No problem. This is the basic reality of picture-taking, which digital has modified slightly.

1). With the D70 you get pleasing results at any ISO including 1600, it's just that the noise/grain starts to appear on enlargements bigger than A4. Outdoors I usually use 200ISO. Indoors with (preferably bounce) flash I use 400-650-800 ISO so that the background lit by the room light is not overpowered by the flash. It depends on the conditions.

2). Full f-stops are: 2 2.8 4 5.6 8 11 16 22 32 (You notice that they double every two stops). If we go from f2.8 to f5.6 in one-third stops that makes 2.8 3.2 3.5 4 4.5 5 5.6
The 18-70DX has a maximum aperture of f3.5 at 18mm but only f4.5 at 70mm. Two stops down at 18mm is f7 and at 70mm it's f9. (Hope you understood that).

3) Rule of thumb to avoid camera shake is to not use a shutter speed slower than 1/ the focal length of the lens in 24x36 terms. The 18-70DX is the equivalent of a 28-105 in film terms so if you're using the lens at 70mm then avoid using a shutter speed slower than 1/100 sec.

Charles

[another view]

Charles has given you some excellent advice, but I'll add something about the ISO and aperture:

Generally it's best to use the lowest ISO that you can get away with given the particular situation. It's not a problem to boost the ISO but don't go much faster than you need. I don't have a D70 but ISO800 files look really nice from that camera. ISO1600 looks great too, but there's a noticable difference.

With aperture and shooting lenses wide open (maximum aperture), a lot of lenses are better stopped down about two stops. One stop will probably make a difference though - just realize that you don't have to go to exactly two stops to see an improvement. There are exceptions to the rule, and don't be afraid to shoot wide open (or at ISO1600 either). I do both of these on occasion and it's just a different look.

The best thing you can do is try both for yourself to see how it really works. Digital noise looks a little like film grain in a print, and what looks good to one person doesn't always work for someone else. What looks sharp to me might not be sharp to you. This person might be better at post production (as in Photoshop, creating a file for printing) than that person. Point is, there's so many variables that you really need to try things out and see what you like. Good luck!

[markcoleman]

Fantastic,

I just want to say a very big thanks for all the help and advice given on this topic. It has helped much more than simly reading through vast amounts of information. So thanks. And to that end I have now contacted Grays of Westminster in London and going in their next weekend to buy the D70s + 18-70DX lens and a 1 GB Lexar 80x Compact flash, which I can then use when I travel around Thailand and Cambodia in August ... great.

I wonder for the last time of being a complete pain if there are two further questions I may ask ... sorry!!

1) Is the Lexar 80x 1GB card better than the Sandisk Extreme II ??? They are about the same price but I always here Sandisk may be better. Any thoughts??

2) Slightly more difficult questions. I see in magazines like Amateur Photographer that alot of the pictures sent in use a polarizing filter. When and why would you use one of these?? I assume as a starter to stay away from them??

Again, thanks for all the advice it has helped cement my thinking.

Cheers once again

[markcoleman]

More Compact Flash Info

I have seen on the Sandisk website that the Extreme III ihas a minimum of 20MB/sec sequential write and read speed (equivalent to x133) vs the Lexar x80 which is 12MB/sec. I therefore assume Sandisk is better, is that true??? Do I need this sort of write speed, or is it not worth the extra cost?

[Franglais]

Fantastic,

I just want to say a very big thanks for all the help and advice given on this topic. It has helped much more than simly reading through vast amounts of information. So thanks. And to that end I have now contacted Grays of Westminster in London and going in their next weekend to buy the D70s + 18-70DX lens and a 1 GB Lexar 80x Compact flash, which I can then use when I travel around Thailand and Cambodia in August ... great.

I wonder for the last time of being a complete pain if there are two further questions I may ask ... sorry!!

1) Is the Lexar 80x 1GB card better than the Sandisk Extreme II ??? They are about the same price but I always here Sandisk may be better. Any thoughts??

2) Slightly more difficult questions. I see in magazines like Amateur Photographer that alot of the pictures sent in use a polarizing filter. When and why would you use one of these?? I assume as a starter to stay away from them??

Again, thanks for all the advice it has helped cement my thinking.

Cheers once again

Some more real-world thinking:

If you take just one 1GB CF card then this means you can "only" do about 320 JPG fine images before filling up the card and having to download to a computer or a portable disk drive (I have an ARCHOS GMini 400 and I like it a lot). If you're shooting RAW then this goes down to about 160 images. With an interesting subject I can do 300 useful images in a day..

So you say "I don't shoot that many images and 320 images is enough for Thailand and Cambodia". In that case you're not going to notice any difference between a super-extreme card and a bog standard card because you only actually need the write speed when you're shooting at 3 images/second for several seconds (the D70 can keep 9? JPG images in its internal buffer while writing to the card)

A polarising filter is very useful for some landscapes because it eliminates reflections in water and makes blue skies bluer. It's very easy to use - you can see the result in the viewfinder. However it's not something to keep on the lens all the time because it cuts the light coming through by two stops (the metering system will handle it). I would say a polarising filter is nice-to-have but optional.

Charles

[markcoleman]

Charles,

Thanks again for your thoughts. I have also had an email from a pro photogrpaher who said the Lexar x80 is very good so will go with that one.

Thanks re. filters, I will hold off on that one.

I have ordered the "Understanding Exposure: How to Shoot Great Photographs with a Film or Digital Camera" by Bryan Peterson, which was recommended by several people on this site. So hopefully that will start to give me a good grounding.

And a big thanks for the recommendation about photo storage on the ARCHOS GMini 400. Looks great and has a 20GB storage capacity .. so will request that as my next birthday present from the missus! I assume that you can transfer photos from the device directly to the computer if required?.

Thanks again for all your help.

[Franglais]

Charles,

Thanks again for your thoughts. I have also had an email from a pro photogrpaher who said the Lexar x80 is very good so will go with that one.

Thanks re. filters, I will hold off on that one.

I have ordered the "Understanding Exposure: How to Shoot Great Photographs with a Film or Digital Camera" by Bryan Peterson, which was recommended by several people on this site. So hopefully that will start to give me a good grounding.

And a big thanks for the recommendation about photo storage on the ARCHOS GMini 400. Looks great and has a 20GB storage capacity .. so will request that as my next birthday present from the missus! I assume that you can transfer photos from the device directly to the computer if required?.

Thanks again for all your help.

You take the CF card out of the camera and plug it into the GMini, copy all your photos down onto it then put the CF card back in the camera and format it. When you get home you connect the GMini to the computer and it's seen as an extra hard disk called JUKEBOX.

The GMINI has a small colour screen so you can use it to look at your JPG files - or for playing music, DIVX videos etc. It's small enough to put in a trouser pocket or in a camera bag. Plus - it's cute and feels good.

Charles