HELP? What format to save photos, eg RAW, JPEG etc

[markcoleman]

I am buying a Nikon D70s this weekend, and read that you can save your photos as RAW, JPEG and then there are also different JPEG compression rates. I am completely new to digital SLRs therefore would like a format that does not require too much work, but that is still very good quality.

Am I right in thinking RAW means the camera has not done any processing itself?? So you need to do it yourself?? Whereas JPEG means the camera is doing it for you?? If anyone can shed some light and also what the difference in quality is, that would be extremely appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Mark

[Michael Fanelli]

I am buying a Nikon D70s this weekend, and read that you can save your photos as RAW, JPEG and then there are also different JPEG compression rates. I am completely new to digital SLRs therefore would like a format that does not require too much work, but that is still very good quality.

Am I right in thinking RAW means the camera has not done any processing itself?? So you need to do it yourself?? Whereas JPEG means the camera is doing it for you?? If anyone can shed some light and also what the difference in quality is, that would be extremely appreciated.

A RAW file are the pixels pulled off the sensor and massaged a bit. There is no loss and it can be viewed using software. This is the best possible way to keep the original photo using traditional formats. JPEG is a lossy format, every time you save the file it loses pixels. The larger the compression the more the loss. This is a fine format for the web, occasional prints, email, etc. You can get jpeg from RAW using software.

I keep the RAW images and create jpgs from them when I need to.

A newer format is the Adobe DNG. Its like RAW, has no loss, but can be used for all RAW formats from almost all cameras. I have no idea if it will catch on but I have converted all my RAW images to DNG (in seperate folders) just in cae.

There is also TIFF and PSD formats that you would have to create.

[Franglais]

I am buying a Nikon D70s this weekend, and read that you can save your photos as RAW, JPEG and then there are also different JPEG compression rates. I am completely new to digital SLRs therefore would like a format that does not require too much work, but that is still very good quality.

Am I right in thinking RAW means the camera has not done any processing itself?? So you need to do it yourself?? Whereas JPEG means the camera is doing it for you?? If anyone can shed some light and also what the difference in quality is, that would be extremely appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Mark

I started out by shooting only JPG on my D70. Maybe 50% of the images were OK, 40% needed some correction and 10% needed serious correction. The camera (with my assistance) was getting pretty close to a right solution but I was still losing too many shots. I soon realised that with JPG, the possibilities for correcting the image were limited - push it too far and the result looked unnatural.

So I bought Nikon Capture and started shooting RAW. It was like being able to rewind the camera's treatment of the image and tell it to start again and do it differently. I was able to get the results I wanted almost all the time.

The end result is still JPG fine generated from the corrected RAW file. This is what I store on my computer and view with ACDSee, the same as all my other images scanned from negatives. JPG fine a good compromise between size of the file (2MB) and quality of the image - as long as you don't want to do more corrections.

I keep the corrected RAW files offline on CD & DVD. Perhaps one day I will be able to improve on my treatment but right now I don't need to keep the RAW file on disk.

In fact when I'm shooting I get the D70 to produce both RAW and JPG coarse. This gives me an immediate (low-quality) 2nd copy of the image for security and when I transfer the images to my ARCHOS drive I can view the JPG on the drive to see what I've been doing.

Charles

[another view]

I shoot jpeg and raw. Sometimes you just don't need all the extra workflow or the extra bit depth of raw, and if you don't need corrections to the file and don't re-save it, you can do just fine with jpeg. Jpegs have a much smaller file size so everything runs faster and your hard drive space isn't eaten up so quickly.

When I've shot raw on jobs, I've done jpeg conversions of all of the shots because clients don't know what to do with raw files (at least in my experience). In that case, or if I make a print from a raw file, then I save it as a jpeg - but if it's personal work I don't usually process the raw file until I need it for something.

[SmartWombat]

If you don't want any work, then you are sacrificing some quality ... particularly if the exposure isn't perfect, and you need to tweak it.

RAW files will give you about +/- 2 stops adjustment, far more htan you have on a JPEG image.
Thye also provide an opportunity to keep the raw infromation so that when software converion improves you can get better images than the in-camera software.

Not so relevant to DSLR, but I could make better conversions to JPEG in my PC then using the Minolta A1 built in JPEG option.

But it all takes time, and effort.
I think it's worth it, for the ability to adjust the image more tha nis possible with the JPEG.
I'm willing to invest the time to do it, usually 3-4 hours after a day's shooting.

[markcoleman]

Thanks everyone for the advice.

I suppose the question arises therefore, what cost is RAW software for the D70s?

If I don't buy it straight away, can I still print RAW pictures? i.e. are they a similiar quality to the saved jpeg but you can fiddle about with it more??

The context is that I am not looking to ever sell my pictures and very few will be blown up to larger than 7x5 prints. Therefore should I save as a RAW and Jpeg for every shot?? and then in the future I could still tweak old photos. If so I have a 1GB Lexar 80x card, how many pictures will that equate to.

The reason for all these questions is that I am off to Thailand, Cambodia and India in the next six months and at the moment I don't think I will be doing lots of fiddling with pictures.

One final, question, honest. When you do fiddle with the image does the RAW also stay as the original? I assume so. I am just worried that I will not know what is best for the pictures and therefore don't want to ruin them.

Thanks

[JeffHall]

Thanks everyone for the advice.

I suppose the question arises therefore, what cost is RAW software for the D70s?

If I don't buy it straight away, can I still print RAW pictures? i.e. are they a similiar quality to the saved jpeg but you can fiddle about with it more??

The context is that I am not looking to ever sell my pictures and very few will be blown up to larger than 7x5 prints. Therefore should I save as a RAW and Jpeg for every shot?? and then in the future I could still tweak old photos. If so I have a 1GB Lexar 80x card, how many pictures will that equate to.

The reason for all these questions is that I am off to Thailand, Cambodia and India in the next six months and at the moment I don't think I will be doing lots of fiddling with pictures.

One final, question, honest. When you do fiddle with the image does the RAW also stay as the original? I assume so. I am just worried that I will not know what is best for the pictures and therefore don't want to ruin them.

Thanks

I don't know that I'd shoot in RAW if you're not planning on much post-processing work. RAW is better, yes, but JPEG gets the work done, and if you only have 1 G of space you'll run out fast in RAW. You'll find out if you need to shoot RAW--better dynamic range, of course no compression artifacting, color space control, white balance etc. I've been shooting primarily RAW this last year, especially since I got the 20D and more memory, but even last weekend shooting a wedding I switched to JPEG for the reception because: A) I knew the white balance from the flash and strobes B) I was running out of space--I had started the evening with 4 Gs and the formals and ceremony shots ate up about 2 G of that in RAW. Reception shots weren't as important, but I needed lots of shots to catch 'moments' LOL.

Looking down further, if you are shooting for a 5x7 format, I would even think a medium resolution JPEG would be ideal. Small file, over a 1000 shots on the card, I would guess.

For convertors, Rawshooter Essentials from Pixmantec is EXCELLENT and free. Adobe Camera RAW is excellent too, if you have or are planning on purchasing Photoshop. Which is recommended of course. Adobe Bridge and ACR are great for workflow.

[another view]

When you do fiddle with the image does the RAW also stay as the original?

No. Any changes made will save the file as (in Adobe Photoshop CS, probably anything though) as some other type of file. Once you made the conversion, it's really not going to be a RAW file anymore. Now you can save a copy (save as) that way you have your converted and adjusted image (the finished file ready for printing, etc) and that way also keep the RAW file. I really recommend that you do it this way. I use PSCS because it has a built-in converter so the workflow is very quick and easy. The new version, CS2, replaced CS and is probably compatible with your camera. You might have to download an update from Adobe because that camera model is so new though.

But if you're going to a place where you won't have a computer always with you then shooting RAW probably won't work. Like Jeff said, you'll fit tons more jpegs on a card than RAW. Maybe save all the RAW shots for a separate card and only use them when it's really necessary.

I'd say that jpegs get a bad rap - I have made some big prints with them and they look great, but just like all photography it's gotta be right at the time of exposure. I would shoot at the highest resolution and lowest compression (fine mode). RAW gives you more flexibility, but at the expenses already outlined here (bigger file, more work). I do shoot a lot of RAW lately, but it's not always necessary for excellent images.

[Franglais]

Thanks everyone for the advice.

I suppose the question arises therefore, what cost is RAW software for the D70s?

If I don't buy it straight away, can I still print RAW pictures? i.e. are they a similiar quality to the saved jpeg but you can fiddle about with it more??

The context is that I am not looking to ever sell my pictures and very few will be blown up to larger than 7x5 prints. Therefore should I save as a RAW and Jpeg for every shot?? and then in the future I could still tweak old photos. If so I have a 1GB Lexar 80x card, how many pictures will that equate to.

The reason for all these questions is that I am off to Thailand, Cambodia and India in the next six months and at the moment I don't think I will be doing lots of fiddling with pictures.

One final, question, honest. When you do fiddle with the image does the RAW also stay as the original? I assume so. I am just worried that I will not know what is best for the pictures and therefore don't want to ruin them.

Thanks

Nikon Capture is expensive - about $120 - but it probably contains the most tools for modifying the image. But there are also lots of free tools for manipulating Nikon RAW. Even ACDSee V7 knows how to do it.

With the D70s (or the D70 with the latest firmware) when you shoot RAW+JPG you get about half as many images on a card compared with when you shoot JPG fine. On a 1GB card I can get 158 RAW+JPG images or about 340 JPG fine images.

RAW is an excellent excuse to get that portable hard disk you've been drooling over.

Shoot just JPG and you're going to be kicking yourself when you get back from Thailand. You'll see all those images that aren't quite right and that you could have corrected with RAW - even years from now, when your skills have developed.

Charles

[markcoleman]

Thankyou to everyone. It has really helped me. I am going into London this weekend to pick up my D70s + lens and can't wait. I have decided the best thing to do is save both file types and then as stated below save the RAW files onto disk for later use. I think I may also buy another CF card.

Thanks again to everyones comments. I have found this to be an incredibly informative forum for a beginner like me to start understanding and therefore getting more interested and excited about photography...Hats off to everyone that participates!!!

Cheers