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  1. #1
    Copyright Alf Beharie (2005)
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    London, UK.
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    Re: For Alf!!!!

    [QUOTE=mdmc]I think that you should stop trying to blow Sigma sunshine up our A$$E$ & start taking and posting pictures here, no matter what the camera!
    I didn't just run out and buy a d70, I looked at all the available options and was waiting to see what minoltas camera would be like. The minolta turned out to be like $1500 and that was too much for me.
    I did see images posted on the review section of this site that are breathtaking taken with the sd10, and took a serious look at it."
    "Its a 3.1 MP camera"

    I am afraid Mark you seem to be making the all too common mistake of comparing the SD10 to a 3mp Bayer sensored camera, which of course its not, and it does not behave as such.
    To get a better idea how the Foveon X3 actually works and to compare it correctly to a Bayer sensor you should really look at it in the following way:
    The Nikon D70 has a 6mp monochrome sensor. Over each photosite is an applied colour filter so to get a colour image the pixels must be interpolated using a complex algorithm which often has to fill in the blanks by guessing whats there.
    There are twice as many green filtered photosites as there are red and blue or to put that numercally thats 3 million green photosites, 1.5 million red photosites and 1.5 million blue photosites.
    The D70 has a 6mp image output size but its only has around 1.5mp "true colour" resolution often somewhat less.
    In fact the only time it is possible to obtain a full 6mp resolution D70 image is in monochrome, where every photosite is counted.
    The SD10, on the other hand has a 3.4mp x3 stacked photosite sensor.
    Each photosite does not require an applied colour filter, the colour is determined by how deep into the silicon each colour can penetrate and the output of each photosite is read off seperately.
    There are the same amount of photosites for each colour or to put that numerically thats 3.4 million green photosites, 3.4 million red photosites and 3.4 million blue photosites, making a total of 10.2 million seperate photosites. The SD10 has an 3.4mp image output size but it has 10.2mp of resolution data, in true colour.
    In practice however it seems this is reduced to around 8mp of resolution data making the SD10 a direct competor with an 8mp Bayer sensored DSLR, such as the 20D.
    ...And you will recall, earlier on I mentioned that the SD10 has been shown in tests, performed by users who own both cameras, to be a match for the 20D in terms of resolution.

    "capable of making 9x13 prints"

    Again, you are incorrect Mark, as you are attempting to directly compare the SD10 with a 3mp Bayer sensored camera.
    The SD10 is easily capable of perfectly sharp A0 prints and there have even been occasions where SD10 images have been used on huge outdoor advertising boards!
    In case you are unaware of the dimensions of an A0 print, thats 46.8" x 33.1" (118.9cm x 84.1cm).
    Here is one such example:
    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...essage=7182672

    "and cant shoot jpeg!"

    True it does not take in-camera jpgs, only Raw files, but as you know RAW files offer much greater control of the final image, which is why RAW is widely used by Professional Photographers, plus you get no reduction in image quality as you get with jpgs.

    "I know for a fact that I can set the d70 to basic large files, and get around 300 pics with adequate detail"

    "adequate detail"?....That may be enough for you but I prefer to aim for maximum detail.

    ", and make a decent 12x 18 print. Ive never shot in RAW on purpose, the one time that i did by accedent i was just luky that it was set to raw + jpeg."

    Perhaps you should try using RAW more often as you may be supprised by how much it can improve the image quality you can obtain.

    Regards

    Alf

  2. #2
    learning member
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    Dec 2004
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    niles mi us
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    Re: For Alf!!!!

    Max print size 9x13. Thats a quote from pop photo. their tests and reviews are good enuogh for me.
    Mark.

  3. #3
    Sitting in a Leaky Dingy Michael Fanelli's Avatar
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    Perryville, MD
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    926

    Re: For Alf!!!!

    "Foveon has MANY problems: softer images as the ISO goes up,

    Actually I find there is practically no need to use anything higher than ISO100 99.9 % of the time.
    Most photographers do. Variable ISO is one of the many advanced options available with digital cameras compared with film. The fact that you are locked on ISO 100 is not something to brag about.

    "problems with noise in the red channel,"

    ???...Can you clarify this and show me a good example to show if your views are justified?

    "color bleeding"

    ???...Can you clarify this and show me a good example to show if your views are justified?

    "problems with noise in the red channel"

    ???...Can you clarify this and show me a good example to show if your views are justified?

    " hue shifts"

    ???...Can you clarify this and show me a good example to show if your views are justified?
    The best non-biased review with examples of these problems are located on dpreview. Go look at it.

    , and really bad long exposure properties."

    Now that bit is true but what you obviously dont realise is that long exposures of more than ten seconds are really not necessary with the SD10.
    Huh? Does it have some magic time-altering feature? Or are you just limited in the exposures you make and are turning it into some sort of generalization?

    If you are happy with your Sigma, good for you. There are others who feel the same way. But there is a fanaticism that has creeped into your post that is just asking to be flamed. This is a camera, not a religion. I use Canon because of very specific reasons I've outlined ad nauseum in past posts. Those who read my posts also know that I complain about Canon a lot. I often recommend Nikon, Pentax, and now Minolta to others. Very few people here are fanatics, they choose their equipment for specific reasons. You have locked yourself on Fovean, a nacent and proprietary technology that hasn't gone very far yet. That's a fact, pure and simple. Maybe it will improve to the point where others will license it. For now, it is limited and has problems that need to be fixed. That is going to take a while.
    "Every great decision creates ripples--like a huge boulder dropped in a lake. The ripples merge and rebound off the banks in unforseeable ways.

  4. #4
    Ghost
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Crystal Lake, IL
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    1,028

    Re: Hasselblad vs.1D?

    Hey, I'd love for someone to educate me about the SD10 and explain the merits of the technology in the camera. But what matters to me is the end result, not the algorithms or hardware that does it.

    I'm serious Alf, post some photos that help emphasize the reasons the technology in that camera is good. It's a lot more difficult to argue results than it is technology. Well, it would be a different argument anyway

    You're not going to convince me it's a better camera by explaining how the pixels are captured and comparing that with other cameras.

  5. #5
    Member Stephen Lutz's Avatar
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    Dec 2004
    Location
    Louisville, KY
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    224

    Re: Hasselblad vs.1D?

    I love this thread!

    Anyway, what was the question again.... oh, Hassy or 1D for "magazine ready" publishable quality photos of skateboarders....

    Answer: 1D. Enough mega pixels, fast, fast, fast focusing, configurable color space. Designed for the professional sports photographer. Not a knock on the hassy, but, well, you got to have the right tool for the job. It isn't fair to complain about a screwdriver not making a good hammer, so just get the 1D and forget about it. (The hassy would be a great choice for studio, and/or wedding photography.)

  6. #6
    Copyright Alf Beharie (2005)
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    London, UK.
    Posts
    8

    Re: For Alf!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by mdmc
    Max print size 9x13. Thats a quote from pop photo. their tests and reviews are good enuogh for me.
    Mark.
    Well not that I dought the validity of their reviews or anything but obviously they have'nt seen these:

    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...essage=7182672

    Or this:

    http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/image/42557324/original

    Regards ;)

    Alf.

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