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  1. #1
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    Greenhorn Needs Help!

    I am new to this forum and DSLR camera's. I will be starting a home business and need help!

    The situation is that I do not have a studio, do not want to purchase expensive lighting, nor do I have the room. Point and shoot camera's do not allow me to shoot in poor light. Most of my pictures will be close up, in the macro mode from no more than 24", but as close as 2~3". I need expert advise on which camera, lens and flash to use. I think I have narrowed it down to a Nikon D5000 and the Canon EOS 5D Mark II.

    I have heard that the Nikon R1 C1 flash is a good choice, but I will need advice. Can it be used on a Canon?

    I could be wrong, but I think the Nikon D5000 has no auto focus. Maybe I would be better off with a manual focus lens too.

    Quality wise, which is best, Nikon or Canon? Picture wise which is best, Nikon or Canon?

    Maybe someone has a different brand suggestion altoghter!

  2. #2
    Senior Member OldClicker's Avatar
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    Re: Greenhorn Needs Help!

    The two bodies you are comparing are about $500 and $2500. What is your budget?

    How do you know that you need to be 2-3" away when you don't even know what lens you are buying? To get 2-3" focus, you need a good macro set up which is all about lens and lighting, not body.

    TF
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  3. #3
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    Re: Greenhorn Needs Help!

    I may have the Canon model number wrong. It should have been one of the Rebel models. What ever the equivelent quality/price range would be. I know I need 2~3" pictures because that is what I am doing with a point and shoot. Being new to DSLR's, I need help selecting a lens is the reason I do not know. That is why I am here! Did I say greenhorn?
    Last edited by flintlock62; 02-18-2010 at 12:43 PM.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Anbesol's Avatar
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    Re: Greenhorn Needs Help!

    Quality wise, which is best, Nikon or Canon? Picture wise which is best, Nikon or Canon?
    DOH!

    You can't ask such questions, and moreover, nobody can give you a real answer.

    There are pros on here that use all sorts of different brands and bodies, and they all manage to produce excellent images.

    The D5000 has Autofocus with af-s lens only.

    close up macros need a true macro lens at 1:1, and at your distance, you would want at least a 100mm macro. If you use a 50/60mm, you'll be limited with distance, and have to get very close to the subject.

    depending on what you're shooting, a rebel may be enough horsepower. Tell us more about your subjects.

    The lens - you'll need a fixed lens at least 100mm, Canon has a 100mm f/2.8, and a 180mm f/3.5. Both will be ideal. Just don't bothe rwith their 50's and 60's (unless you want the camera a few centimeters from the subject)

  5. #5
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    Re: Greenhorn Needs Help!

    You people will have to forgive my ignorance. I would think there are quaity differences in camera's as there are diffences between a Rolls Royce and a Yugo. The digital age camera has so many gadgets that are sometimes not needed. All I know is, that if it is not broke, it don't have enough gadgets.

    Hand made crafts is what my business is composed of and detailed pictures are needed.

    What do you meand by " negated by output size"?

  6. #6
    Be serious Franglais's Avatar
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    Re: Greenhorn Needs Help!

    GH>> Quality wise, which is best, Nikon or Canon? Picture wise which is best, Nikon or Canon?

    That is a real greenhorn question. These are the top two manufacturers and their products are pretty much equal. If one draws ahead for a while, the other one catches up quickly. It's been like that for years.

    GH>> I could be wrong, but I think the Nikon D5000 has no auto focus. Maybe I would be better off with a manual focus lens too.

    You are wrong. The D5000 has no focus motor and needs lenses with a focus motor built-in - which all Nikon lenses have had for the last 5 years or so. Forget manual focus - the camera does a much better job of focussing than you do through the viewfinder, unless you use Liveview focussing but that's slow

    GH>> I have heard that the Nikon R1 C1 flash is a good choice, but I will need advice. Can it be used on a Canon?

    Interesting question - I don't have a R1 C1 so I looked at the specs. This unit is designed for Nikon's CLS flash system. If you fitted it on a Canon then it might work a bit but you would lose all the automatic flash measurement that comes with CLS.

    The R1 C1 comes with two flashes and a SU800 flash commander which is necesary for the D5000. I think it would be much better to get the D90 which is a much nicer body and you can use the built-in flash as a commander without the SU800.

    For lenses look first at the latest 60mm AF-S macro from Nikon (or if you go Canon Rebel the new 60mm macro which is supposed to be excellent).
    .
    Charles

    Nikon D800, D7200, Sony RX100m3
    Not buying any more gear this year. I hope

  7. #7
    Senior Member Anbesol's Avatar
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    Re: Greenhorn Needs Help!

    For lenses look first at the latest 60mm AF-S macro from Nikon (or if you go Canon Rebel the new 60mm macro which is supposed to be excellent).
    The new Canon 60mm macro has a 5:1 magnification. Which confuses me I guess you just plaster the subject on the front element?

  8. #8
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    Re: Greenhorn Needs Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Franglais
    GH>> Quality wise, which is best, Nikon or Canon? Picture wise which is best, Nikon or Canon?

    That is a real greenhorn question. These are the top two manufacturers and their products are pretty much equal. If one draws ahead for a while, the other one catches up quickly. It's been like that for years.

    GH>> I could be wrong, but I think the Nikon D5000 has no auto focus. Maybe I would be better off with a manual focus lens too.

    You are wrong. The D5000 has no focus motor and needs lenses with a focus motor built-in - which all Nikon lenses have had for the last 5 years or so. Forget manual focus - the camera does a much better job of focussing than you do through the viewfinder, unless you use Liveview focussing but that's slow

    GH>> I have heard that the Nikon R1 C1 flash is a good choice, but I will need advice. Can it be used on a Canon?

    Interesting question - I don't have a R1 C1 so I looked at the specs. This unit is designed for Nikon's CLS flash system. If you fitted it on a Canon then it might work a bit but you would lose all the automatic flash measurement that comes with CLS.

    The R1 C1 comes with two flashes and a SU800 flash commander which is necesary for the D5000. I think it would be much better to get the D90 which is a much nicer body and you can use the built-in flash as a commander without the SU800.

    For lenses look first at the latest 60mm AF-S macro from Nikon (or if you go Canon Rebel the new 60mm macro which is supposed to be excellent).
    .
    That is what I meant about the Nikon having no focus motor in the body. I have concidered the D90, but the price is getting out of my range. Maybe I should just choke and go for it anyway. What about flash shadow in a close up? That is a BIG problem with my Nikon L5.

    Thank you for advice on the lense.

  9. #9
    project forum co-moderator Frog's Avatar
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    Re: Greenhorn Needs Help!

    What kind of business?
    Nikon flashes work on Nikon cameras. If you go with Nikon the r1-c1 should be very good for close-ups though I have no experience with it. It has a 4 of 5 rating in our reviews but no written reviews. Probably can find some by googling. Be aware that it is a close to $800 unit.

    What made you pick those cameras to choose between?
    How much photography experience do you have?
    What is your budget?
    I really think you need to do more research. Opinions vary on equipment but not so much on the results.
    Keep Shooting!

    CHECK OUT THE PHOTO PROJECT FORUM
    http://forums.photographyreview.com/...splay.php?f=34

    Please refrain from editing my photos without asking.

  10. #10
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    Re: Greenhorn Needs Help!

    I agree with above. A Nikon and a Canon within the same price range is going to take excellent pictures. One may have more features at the time but they both are going to take excellent photos.

    If you are taking photos of small items then a light tent may be ideal. It allows even and soft lighting and eliminates shadows.
    Nikon D300s with Nikon grip
    Nikon D300 with Zeikos grip
    Nikon D40x
    Nikkor 80-200 2.8
    Nikkor 70-300 VR
    Nikkor 18-55 Kit lens
    Nikkor 50 1.8
    Nikkor 35 1.8
    Tamron 17-50 2.8 VC
    Tamron 28-75 2.8
    SB-900
    SB-600

  11. #11
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    Re: Greenhorn Needs Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Frog
    What kind of business?
    Nikon flashes work on Nikon cameras. If you go with Nikon the r1-c1 should be very good for close-ups though I have no experience with it. It has a 4 of 5 rating in our reviews but no written reviews. Probably can find some by googling. Be aware that it is a close to $800 unit.

    What made you pick those cameras to choose between?
    How much photography experience do you have?
    What is your budget?
    I really think you need to do more research. Opinions vary on equipment but not so much on the results.
    A friend of mine is a professional photog and uses a 35mm Nikon, but lives two states away now.

    17th and 18th century leather goods and other small items which will require detail. I buy and sell estate tobacco pipes as well and need to have the brand names and wood detail show up.

    Yes, I know the price of the R1 C1, GLUP, but I believe I need it anyway. Maybe a good digital camera will surprise me. Lighting where I have to take the photo's is one of my main problems, and the space for studio lighting.

    I have not taken pictures in a long time. My original camera was a Minalta SR101 with a Rokor? 55mm F1.2 lense. Wish I had never let that go, but posting pictues on a website would pose a problem anyway with a 35mm.

    Digital camera's are not as straight foward as the old film camera's. So, I need to be educated before I shell out cash for something.

    Anything has to be better than the Nikon L5 point and shoot I am using currently.
    Last edited by flintlock62; 02-18-2010 at 01:40 PM.

  12. #12
    Senior Member OldClicker's Avatar
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    Re: Greenhorn Needs Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by flintlock62
    What about flash shadow in a close up? That is a BIG problem with my Nikon L5.
    To get that close, forget the body. You will need to buy the body that works with the lens and lighting you can afford.

    Lighting should be a ring flash (or possibly a ring light). Here is the Canon version.

    http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs...0051_170876_-1

    Next you need a true macro lens. Again, one from Canon.

    http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs...0051_176726_-1

    So you are already at $1150 and you still need a solid tripod and head ($300) plus the body.

    There are ways to do this (much) cheaper, but it will require you to really know what you are doing.

    What are you trying to shoot?

    TF
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    I am no better than you. I critique to teach myself to see.
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    Feel free to edit my photos or do anything else that will help me learn.
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  13. #13
    Senior Member OldClicker's Avatar
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    Re: Greenhorn Needs Help!

    Read through this thread.

    Novice lighting help

    TF
    Last edited by OldClicker; 02-18-2010 at 02:18 PM.
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    Feel free to edit my photos or do anything else that will help me learn.
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  14. #14
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    Re: Greenhorn Needs Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by OldClicker
    To get that close, forget the body. You will need to buy the body that works with the lens and lighting you can afford.

    Lighting should be a ring flash (or possibly a ring light). Here is the Canon version.

    http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs...0051_170876_-1

    Next you need a true macro lens. Again, one from Canon.

    http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs...0051_176726_-1

    So you are already at $1150 and you still need a solid tripod and head ($300) plus the body.

    There are ways to do this (much) cheaper, but it will require you to really know what you are doing.

    What are you trying to shoot?

    TF
    I wish I had some way to demo between a ring flash and the r1 c1. I read somewhere that the "stereo" type flash of the r1 c1 will cast less shadow. Budget is a problem, so I can not afford to make too many mistakes.

    As stated in a previous post, 17th and 18th century leather goods and several small items that need detail to be shown on a website.

  15. #15
    Senior Member OldClicker's Avatar
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    Re: Greenhorn Needs Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by flintlock62
    I wish I had some way to demo between a ring flash and the r1 c1. I read somewhere that the "stereo" type flash of the r1 c1 will cast less shadow. Budget is a problem, so I can not afford to make too many mistakes.

    As stated in a previous post, 17th and 18th century leather goods and several small items that need detail to be shown on a website.
    Since nothing is moving, you could go with a ring light instead of a ring flash - much cheaper. Check ebay.

    The ring will definately cast less shadow than a twin flash at very close distances.

    Sharp= lens. Look at good macro lenses in the 90-120mm range. Don't forget third party like Sigma.

    Here is a strawberry from about 8-10 inches (if I remember right) using only a homemade lightbox and three florescent shop lights - <$40 total.

    Greenhorn Needs Help!-dsc00469_edited-5.jpg

    Keep asking questions and read the answers carefully.

    TF
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    Feel free to edit my photos or do anything else that will help me learn.
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  16. #16
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    Re: Greenhorn Needs Help!

    I saw your light box and may try a ring light before going any further. I am learning already. I will probably go with a Nikon body because my photog friend is anal about them. My friend said to go to a fabric store and buy curtain remanants and use the back side for a background. Thank you.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Anbesol's Avatar
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    Re: Greenhorn Needs Help!

    Flintlock - since youre looking specifically for macro function, I would only consider camera bodies with a live view function. It allows for much more flexibility and ease of use shooting macro, which is a very unique kind of photography.

    Sony tiltable and Nikons articulating LCD's are also great macro shooting features (w/live view).

  18. #18
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    Re: Greenhorn Needs Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Anbesol
    Flintlock - since youre looking specifically for macro function, I would only consider camera bodies with a live view function. It allows for much more flexibility and ease of use shooting macro, which is a very unique kind of photography.

    Sony tiltable and Nikons articulating LCD's are also great macro shooting features (w/live view).
    Sounds like good advise. Come to the muzzleloading forum and I will teach y'all how to shoot flintlocks!

  19. #19
    project forum co-moderator Frog's Avatar
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    Re: Greenhorn Needs Help!

    As far as light boxes go, one need never spend a bunch of money on one. Pretty easily made with white poster board or similar.
    Keep Shooting!

    CHECK OUT THE PHOTO PROJECT FORUM
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    Please refrain from editing my photos without asking.

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