Graduated Neutral Density Filter

[WsW-WYATT-EARP]

I have been doing some reading about this. Have stumbled upon the Singh-Ray filters. From what I read these are about the best in neutral color there is? Any truth to this? I did not read this on their site.

My question is that the filters come in HARD STEP or SOFT STEP. Which is better ? I understand that they each have their use. I guess a better question to ask is What is the difference?

Thanks !
Ben

[SmartWombat]

Well as the name suggests they have either a gradual edge to the dark area of the filter, or an abrupt straight line edge.

Which works depends on your subject. If you've got a sharp straight line between the bright sky you want to darken and the dark foreground you want to leave unfiltered - well you want the hard step filter.

Most of the time I'd guess the soft step filter would be best.

But with digital if you have time you can do it in software with a wide pair of exposures, one for the shadow and one for the highlight. Photoshop's extended dynamic range feature seems exactly right for this.

[trog100]

essential for englsh skies.. he he

if u are into landscapes i think cokin style grads are a must.. its also a lot easier to stick one on the end of your lens than mess about in photoshop as well.. the real cokin ones come in several densities u need to experiment a little and have more than just the one..

trog

[WsW-WYATT-EARP]

I appreciate the responses ...

Paul - I realize that alot of things can be done in photoshop .. but at this point in time my photoshop skills are not great ... very much beginner ... going to get scott kelbys book on it and learn ...

Trog - I realize that they come in several densities .. I was thinking middle of the road with a 2 stop for starters ... The Sing-Ray filters are made to fit the Cokin "P" style holder .. which is what I think I am going to go with .... From my understanding the holder can hold up to 4 filters .. and figure get a 1 and 2 stop filter which will give me alot of options ...

just to figure out the soft or hard step filters ....

thanks again for the replies .. very much appreciated

[trog100]

the horizon rarely comes nice and flat.. the problem is.. at least to me it is.. i dont like to see the change over point.. i like the shot to look "real" so the hard edge filters are out.. i think u need to start at the less extreme end with a gradual fade.. u can also turn the filter it dosnt need to be exactly horizontal..

if u think it isnt needed just push it upwards in the holder for a normal effect.. carefull positioning is the secret.. i wouldnt use the sharp cut off ones..

the orange ones do nice sunsets as well.. but again try and avoid the obviouse cut off that spoils so many nice shots..

the cheaper (smaller) filters are okay upto say 50mm end of lens size.. they work just as well if u can get away with them.. a small prime with a cokin stuck on the end just for landscapes isnt a bad idea..

trog

[Loupey]

I've used a variety of Cokin graduated filters (neutral density and colored) and have never found a situation where a hard-edged version was better. So my advice would be to stick with the soft-edged.

As Trog mentioned, I think one is successful when the casual viewer has no idea that such a filter was even used (i.e. the transition is carefully positioned). The effect can be overdone so be careful not to use it except only when it will truly help the image. With a blue sky, a standard polarizer will often work instead of resorting to a graduated ND.

I too prefer to do as much as possible in-camera. Besides, the HDR feature in Photoshop has its (serious) limitations when shooting outdoors.

[Chunk]

I appreciate the responses ...

Paul - I realize that alot of things can be done in photoshop .. but at this point in time my photoshop skills are not great ... very much beginner ... going to get scott kelbys book on it and learn ...

The Luminous Landscape site is a great place to learn. Here's the tutorial on digital blending ( I like the layer mask method)
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tu...blending.shtml

[WsW-WYATT-EARP]

Loupey - as i stated before - I read that the Sing-Ray ND filters are among the top's for natural color ... and that they are made to fit the Cokin "P" filter holder ... or in your opinion are the Cokin filters as good ?

Chunk - thanks for the link - I bookmarked it... nice to see another fellow cheese-head here .. seems there are quite a few of us ...

[Loupey]

Loupey - as i stated before - I read that the Sing-Ray ND filters are among the top's for natural color ... and that they are made to fit the Cokin "P" filter holder ... or in your opinion are the Cokin filters as good ?

My Cokins are about 20 years old - have no idea what's being sold nowadays and how they "rate". Simply stating that with my brand-X, I've never wished for a hard-edged transition. Not a statement about the quality of brand-X whatsoever.

[trog100]

i use the word cokin in the same way we use "hoover".. most of mine came out the used bargain basment bin at my local camera store..

trog

[WsW-WYATT-EARP]

Thanks for the great info ... really appreciated !
Ben

[another view]

I have a Cokin two-stop Graduated Grey filter and I'd recommend it while you're learning how they work. They're about 1/5 the price of the Singh Ray and although not perfectly neutral, I've never taken a shot with it and thought there was anything wrong with the color. Having a perfectly neutral filter isn't a requirement with most things in nature.

These filters tend to get scratched easier than most because there's no frame, and you won't worry so much about just taping the filter to the lens barrel with a really wide angle lens. The filter holder will always vignette on some lenses like this. I keep a couple pieces of gaffer's tape on this filter's case just for that reason.

I haven't used it much with digital, but it is a lot easier to shoot it and be done with it. OTOH, if the filter isn't positioned quite right then there's a problem... Try stopping down to the aperture you're shooting at when positioning the filter. It'll be much easier to work this way (try it!).

[WsW-WYATT-EARP]

makes alot of sense with using the cokin over singh ray ..for learning and for what i will use them for ..

thanks for the tip on the tape also ...

[greghalliday]

One thing too with hard edged filters: I tried using my Singh-Ray hard stepped ND on my Sigma 10-20mm lens and at closer than infinity focusing distances and f/16 or slower, the filter (in a Cokin mount) actually falls within the DOF of the lens and looks pretty bad with such a harsh transition. And sorry for the run-on sentence