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  1. #1
    Senior Member Anbesol's Avatar
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    The future of sensor sizes.

    A while back I remember having a conversation here about the future of full frame sensors and their place in the market.

    On a similar note, I'm now curious about the future of 1.2-1.3x crop sensors. As far as I recall, Canon has been the only company to ever have made such sizes, and has only put it on their older 1D models, and currently does not have any camera that supports the size. Also as far as I know, their are no cameras with anything less than a 1.5x crop sensor, with the exception of full frame.

    I would personally have more interest in relying upon a ~ 1.25x crop sensor, its a good compromise of benefits between APS and full frame, and an ideal compromise for my personal shooting style. I don't want to have issues with border softness on any lens under $2k, but I do want to use a larger chunk of the glass. It seems that this sort of camera lends itself better to some of the market than either APS or FX, and yet, it looks as if there will never be anything else between APS and FX. Is there any hope possible for a comeback of 1.2x crop sensors? Or should I stop holding my breath?

  2. #2
    Be serious Franglais's Avatar
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    APS-H still lives...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anbesol
    A while back I remember having a conversation here about the future of full frame sensors and their place in the market.

    On a similar note, I'm now curious about the future of 1.2-1.3x crop sensors. As far as I recall, Canon has been the only company to ever have made such sizes, and has only put it on their older 1D models, and currently does not have any camera that supports the size. Also as far as I know, their are no cameras with anything less than a 1.5x crop sensor, with the exception of full frame.

    I would personally have more interest in relying upon a ~ 1.25x crop sensor, its a good compromise of benefits between APS and full frame, and an ideal compromise for my personal shooting style. I don't want to have issues with border softness on any lens under $2k, but I do want to use a larger chunk of the glass. It seems that this sort of camera lends itself better to some of the market than either APS or FX, and yet, it looks as if there will never be anything else between APS and FX. Is there any hope possible for a comeback of 1.2x crop sensors? Or should I stop holding my breath?
    The 1.3x sensor size (APS-H) is still used in the current Canon 1D Mk3. Canon said that people were asking for it so they did it.

    Since then Nikon have come out with the D3 which is FX (full-frame) and a direct competitor for the 1D. The D3 has done very well (the autofocus problems on the 1D Mk3 came at just the wrong time).

    The 1D Mk4 will give you your answer. If Canon think that people are still asking for APS-H then it will continue.

    In my opinion:

    - APS-C (1.5-1.6) will continue for the amateur and low-end pro. They are economical to produce, and have an increasingly wide range of dedicated lenses. I'm interested in full-frame - better image quality - but I really like the lenses I have with APS-C. There is simply no full-frame equivalent
    - full-frame will continue for the high-end pro. The body will always be more expensive to make and need lenses which have to be the best
    - what you can do now with full-frame will be possible with APS-C in 2-3 years. I can wait
    Charles

    Nikon D800, D7200, Sony RX100m3
    Not buying any more gear this year. I hope

  3. #3
    Senior Member OldClicker's Avatar
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    Re: The future of sensor sizes.

    I think Full Frame will continue to move down in the DSLR market as the sensors continue to get cheaper. Why do you want a slightly smaller sensor? With the smaller volume, it would probably be more expensive than the FF sensor. There is already a $2000 FF body with the ability to shoot in 'APS' mode at 11MB for those times when you don't want the large files or whatever. This is the future as I see it. - TF
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Anbesol's Avatar
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    Re: The future of sensor sizes.

    if you put comparable technology in two cameras, one with an APS-H and the other an FX, the APS-H will be faster, smaller and lighter. The images will be easier to process and pull through work flow, and border issues on lens are still virtually null by the crop factor. Also making better (not full, but better) use of wide angles and utilizing more of the glass. Like I was saying, the APS and FX have their own unique benefits, and the APS-H I think is a good compromise on the benefits of each.

    Anyway, you are probably right though - I dont think APS-H has much of a future. Its assuring to know that Canon still supports it, but it doesn't seem as though it will become a common standard. Not really a big deal really, but something I was thinking about.

    Franglais I take it nobody yet knows wether or not the 1D Mk 4 will be APS-H?

  5. #5
    Be serious Franglais's Avatar
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    Re: The future of sensor sizes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anbesol
    ...
    Franglais I take it nobody yet knows wether or not the 1D Mk 4 will be APS-H?
    Canon never lets any information out in advance about what they are going to do. There is not even any buzz on Internet about a new 1D system. I have seen no guesses in the French press about what Canon might do next. They won't be at PMA in February but they will be at the Consumer Electronics Show in January, which suggests that they will have something new to show (but not necessarily a top-end body).

    Nikon's entire product plan for the next 18 months was leaked at the start of summer. If Canon line up with Nikon - which they have been doing recently with the 18-200IS, the 7D and the 16-85IS - the 1D Mk4 would be full-frame.

    I forgot to mention Leica. The M8 has a 1.33x sensor because the M mount allows the rear of the lens to get so close to the sensor that light going to the edges of a full-frame sensor would arrive at too great an angle to enter the sensor element. But the M8 has just been replaced by the M9 which is full-frame - the elements at the edge of the sensor have microlenses that point towards the rear of the lens.
    Charles

    Nikon D800, D7200, Sony RX100m3
    Not buying any more gear this year. I hope

  6. #6
    Be serious Franglais's Avatar
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    Canon 1D MkIV is still APS-H

    Well whaddya know? Canon kept on with the smaller sensor. But I don't think it makes the camera any smaller or lighter..
    Charles

    Nikon D800, D7200, Sony RX100m3
    Not buying any more gear this year. I hope

  7. #7
    Senior Member Anbesol's Avatar
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    Re: The future of sensor sizes.

    Well, the housing for the pentaprism alone would have to be smaller with a 1.3x crop. I can't imagine it would be the same size with a full size sensor.

    Anyway I'm glad they kept with it, I can only hope its competitors follow suit to make this crop more standard.

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