First DSLR - advice please!

[sammies05]

I am about to make my first DSLR purchase with a budget of £400. Previously I owned a Canon 3000n film camera with kit lens.
After looking around I narrowed my choices down to 2 camers - the Canon 400D and the Nikon D80. Decided I couldnt stretch my budget to the Nikon so am about 95% sure the 400D is for me.
What Im worried about is the kit lens it comes with - I have read many reviews and forums where people say it is a really bad lens. Unfortunatly I wont be able to afford a lens upgrade for some time and even then it will probably have to be a 2nd hand one. I have been looking at 2nd hand Canon 17-85mm lens on Ebay and am wondering whether it would be a better idea to buy the 400D body only and put the extra money towards th 17-85mm or should I get the kit lens as well?
I am concerned at buying a great camera but not getting the potential out of it with a bad quality lens.
Anyone offer any advice?

Many thanks

[Basco]

hello,my bro have the 400D,but he have the Sigma 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6,its not a sharp lens it is just a good starter lens,he have also the Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8-4.5 DC macro,it is a sharp lens and a good all around performer,and a prime 50mm f1.8,and damn this lens is sharp.About the kit-lens,its not as bad as u guess,its a kit-lens (starter lens) and its for its price,not bad at all,of course the Canon 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM is way better,but its more expensive too,it is sharper with better contrast/color saturation ... so its ur choise to buy the one u need,u could also check out the Sigma's,they have a good variety and at lower price than Canon lenses,good luck

[mjs1973]

The Canon kit lenses have come a long way. They aren't that bad at all. I have the original Canon DRebel (300D) and have sold many photos taken with the kit lens. It's not an L lens by any stretch of the imagination, but you can still get some great shots with it.

That being said, your money is better spent on good glass than it is on camera body. If you can afford a better lens go for it, but I wouldn't be discouraged by the kit lens.

[Franglais]

I don't have any Canon gear. All of this is lifted from reviews in the French press.

This month's Chasseurs d'Images has a comparison of kits including the 400D+18-55 and the Nikon D40x+18-55. The Nikon lens is way ahead of the Canon. And I seem to remember that even the 17-85 is not such a great performer. If you want really good results from Canon you have to go to an L lens.

[sammies05]

Yes... I have just been reading about the Nikon d40x and I am even more confused now. Taking the d80 out of the equation ( as it is out of my budget) my decision is now coming down to the canon 400d or Nikon d40x. There is so much debate online about which is better! I realise the Nikon comes with a better lens but that perhaps the Canon is the better camera?
Any more advice would be much appreciated!

[Franglais]

Yes... I have just been reading about the Nikon d40x and I am even more confused now. Taking the d80 out of the equation ( as it is out of my budget) my decision is now coming down to the canon 400d or Nikon d40x. There is so much debate online about which is better! I realise the Nikon comes with a better lens but that perhaps the Canon is the better camera?
Any more advice would be much appreciated!

I checked out Chasseurs d'Images again. They say that the D40x and the 400D are not really equivalent:

- the D40x is an entry-level camera for the non-expert user. It misses some of the "expert" features found on the D80 (only 3 focussing zones I believe)
- the 400D is aimed slightly higher market. It doesn't have the nice viewfinder and solid feel of the D80 but it does most of the same things.

Normally the price should be, from cheapest to most expensive:

1. D40x
2. 400D
3. D80

If you find a 400D for the price of the D40x then the 400D is better value.

[sammies05]

Thanks Charles, your post is really helpful. I have one more to add to the equation! Although out of production now, a friend has a Nikon d50. I dont know much about this camera - I am just doing some research now - any idea how this might compare to the canon 400d?

Cheers

[Franglais]

The D50 was replaced by the D40. On the positive side it can work auto-focus with all Nikon autofocus lenses (the D40 can just do the AF-S ones). It has a nice solid feel about it. It can produce some really nice results. However the D40 has a more recent image processor which does wonders with the relatively old 6Mpix sensor (the D40x has a more recent 10Mpix sensor with the same processor).

The D50 is 2 generations older than the Canon 400D (i.e. about 2 years).

[Basco]

well what can i say,4 days ago my bro bought his second Sigma lens,it was the Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8-4.5 DC macro,1st testing i thought it was a sharp lens (and it was comparing with the Sigma 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 the other one he own) but after 1-2 days i found it to be a soft lens with not that much of details in it,i was like surprised that it was the 2nd Sigma lens he buys and the 2nd soft lens with washed out details ... i cant believe it ... does the Sigma produce bad lenses all the time or it is a bad bad luck ?????last saturday (2 days after he bought the 17-70mm)he replaced both Sigma's and paid an extra 200$ over and bought the Canon 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM and what a lens it is,ohhhhhh gosh how sharp sharp sharp this lens is,its is indeed a very very good performer,it kicked Sigma's asses in every imaginable way(we did some serious test for that) its a very good lens that i recommend to anyone with somehow a low budget,its is a keeper and i love it

[sammies05]

Thanks everyone for your comments and advice! I am all but decided now on the 400d - looking at purchasing this weekend. My plan is to buy a 50mm 1.8 also as I have read nothing but good reviews on this. Yes its cheap and plasticky but is meant to produce amazing sharp pics and has got to be better than the kit and is all I can afford for now! Not sure whether to get it instead of the kit lens or as well as. Then in a year or so when I can afford it I will upgrade to a better zoom, perhaps the 17-85.
Cant wait to try it all out!

[Frog]

Don't look back and please show us some pics when you get them.

[JamesV]

If you have the money, I would say go for the kit and the 50mm lens. I just purchased that same combinations about a month ago/ The kit lens will get you started with a zoom, when needed. And the 50mm lens is just a great lens to have also.

Have fun and shot a lot of pictures.

James

[sammies05]

I have just been reading some views that the 50mm on a 1.6 crop sensor isnt as good as an actual 50mm (so 35mm on a crop). I am still inclined to get the 50mm however, James - what camera have you got and how do you find it?