Noob, need advice.

[Pgh_N8tv]

Greetings all,

Been lurking for a bit, did some reading, decided it was time to post. As the title states, I am a "noob" to camera talk. I have used a simple Kodak point and shoot with some success for some years now, but looking to upgrade. I have read the threads regarding what information to list so that the experts here can better answer my question, so I will do my best. So, here goes....

I have no current camera that would have lenses that would work with any DSLR.

My budget would be in the $1,000 - $1,500 range

I do not have nor plan on purchasing/using any professional photoshop type programs to enhance digital pictures.

The camera would be used to shoot a variety of subjects. Anything from family portraits, outdoor landscapes, architecture, wildlife, etc.. the camera would need to be diverse to take good action shots, but also to be sued on a tripod as well.

Exposure to the elements and ruggedness is a concern (hiking/camping)

I would prefer purchasing a "package deal", where one could get pretty much everything one would need to start taking pictures.

I have no problem with buying things online from a reputable dealer.

Thats about all I can think of right now. I have had some recommendations from a friend whom told me of this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Canon-EOS-30D-Di...QQcmdZViewItem

or this:
http://www.digicombos.com/camera-sho...EOS-30D/1.html

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Please ask any questions and I will be happy to answer them.

Thanks in advance!

[fx101]

It seems to me like you just want a DLR that will give you great photos with no hassle. Unfortunately, you'll have to realize that there are compromises to be made. As you move up the ladder (i.e. get more professional) with your DSLR body, you will require photoshop because the camera does very little image processing since the intent will probably be extensive PS work. The more consumer-ish SLR's will give you far better images right out of the camera, although they will not provide as high a quality image as a more dedicated SLR would (keeping all other variables like post-processing constant).

That being said, I would recommend something in the prosumer range so that you can grab great images out of camera, but still have some flexibility should you decide to get more involved in photography.

In the canon lineup you'll probably want to take a look at the EOS 40D. If I'm not mistaken, it has a sealed magnesium body (i.e. rugged and durable), has 10 megapixels (permitting enlargements up to around 16x20), and is pretty fast.

The downside to the 40D? It's really more of a semi-professional camera so to get the most out of the camera it really helps if you can edit your photos.

There's also the Rebel Xsi with 12.2 megapixels. The megapixel difference is irrelevant (image quality is about the same) but it'll be more point and shoot-ish, and not permit you as much flexibility in landscape and action shots as the 40d will. Plus it's a plastic body which won't be as durable.

On the Nikon side of things....

There's the D80, one of my favorite cameras of all times, simply because it has many of the features of the pro models, while having a light polycarbonate body and being easy to use. It has 10 megapixels and its metering system lends itself well to point and shoot type photography unlike the D200 that tends to expose shots to preserve the highlights (bright parts) so as to permit a person to process the photo later on. Since you aren't going to be processing photos I'd recommend the D80. If durability, incredible speed, and flexibility are important to you then go and get the D200... I love mine. If you are going to be shooting sports and need 8fps and a blazingly fast autofocus (trust me, it's fast) then grab a D300. Really, I think the D80 will suit you fine. If you wait until October/November its successor will be anounced. I would actually grab the D80 around that time because it will be really cheap and now that the image quality improvement has been shown to be minimal between the compact-professional models (D200 and D300) that use the same image sensors, there's no real reason for you to spend more. Rather, I'd recommend a good lens.

The Lens. This is your most important buy (or buys). The lens is far more important than your camera in getting good image quality. I'd recommend you buy a 50mm f/1.8 (from either brand) as a start. This is a great focal length for portraits/most random things you want to take pictures of. The f/1.8 means that the lens will open really wide (lower number=wider=more light) and make the background nice and blurry, leading to a very professional looking portrait. (Plus the 50mm f/1.8's are very cheap considering how they perform like pro glass--around $110).

Since the 50mm is a prime and not a zoom, you'll probably need either a wide angle or a telephoto or both depending on your needs. From what you said it seems like you will require a wide angle lens more than a telephoto. I'd recommend the Tokina 12-24mm or 11-16mm which recently came out. Either of these lenses are great and will let you squeeze in the whole family or let you get close to get dramatic wide shots.

I can't really comment on Olympus or Sony since I haven't personally used many of their cameras so I'll leave someone to comment on that.

[Anbesol]

I have found Sony offers the best value on the market - and their quality still competes with the big boys, Zeiss lens options give you a choice of top notch optics, add to that backwards compatibility with the always great performing Minolta Film lens! $1500 puts the A700 in as a very tight option, though a bit of wiggle room and you can get the necessary accessories and some additional lens. It has the magnesium alloy/polycarbonate body for the ruggedness. It uses a 12 megapixel CMOS - translation: excellent noise performance, excellent color reproduction, excellent sensor lifespan. It also does an incredible job maintaining color detail in ultra high and ultra low tones, particularly low tones, so blown highlights and crushed shadows are virtually a thing of the past. Sony also leads the industry in sensor shake reduction technology, so there is no need to invest in IS lens, and you still gain 2-3 stops, like having a monopod with you everywhere! I would not discourage investigating other brands - Nikon, Canon, and Olympus all offer unique benefits that only you can really decide whether or not it fits your intended usage, but Sony is certainly a very strong competitor and worth a serious look.

A700 package deal - this is a great price for the kit, the lens performs great across the zoom and it has a huge range (35 equiv: 27-300mm). The body alone costs $1300, and the lens alone costs $500 - combining them saves you $300. The lens is slow on the telephoto end, 200 being f/6.3, but this is the nature of these wide zooms. Nonetheless, it is a perfect lens to start off with considering its great range and performance.

If you wanted to spend less on the camera body - then I think the best route would be the 30D, you keep the CMOS and Magnesium build with all the functionality of the entry-pro type SLR's, and you can spend the extra money on some exquisite lens. Olympus would also be worth a look if you are interested in portability and size/weight.

[Anbesol]

Also - post processing is a must! At the very least, get photo shop elements or paint shop pro, it can make a world of difference.

[Pgh_N8tv]

Everyone, thanks for your input thus far, I really appreciate it.

I am most impressed with the Canon line and was looking at the 30D or the 40D. My biggest fears are going to a camera store and buying a ton of crap that I dont need or will never use, hence why I am here.

I put those links up, I don't know how good they are... But that would be most helpful to me, to find some sort of "package" that would get me going. I am most concerned with getting the right camera and lenses, the rest I think I can figure out (accessories: tripod, bag, etc)

Keep the great comments coming!

Best regards.

[dumpy]

I would be a bit leery of DigiCombos.com, I think they may be part of Broadway photo or a similar operation. In case you haven't read around on here enough to know what that means, it's bad. Bait and Switch, Gray market cameras, no warranty, hard sell and of course overpriced crappy accessories. If you don't order a certain number of accessories, the camera is suddenly not in stock. Find a local camera store that you can trust or order from a known reputable dealer like B&H or Adorama.

Go to the LCS, try stuff out, ask their advice then come back here and see what we all think. If you want my advice on accessories, I'd say buy a few memory cards (unless you already have the right type), a good quality UV filter for protection on each lens (others may dispute this), a good quality polarizing filter, a spare battery and a nice camera bag (again unless you already have something that will work).
I'm a big tripod/support guy myself, others are not so much, this is very much a preference/style of shooting decision.

I noticed that you said that you will not purchase editing software, is it the expense or do you not want to post process? Most DSLRs come with at least a basic RAW conversion program, shooting RAW and properly post processing is really important to producing great images. I bet that if you start shooting RAW and post processing with whatever software came with the camera, that you will get the post processing bug before you know it.

As far as the camera itself, all of the major companies (Canon, Olympus, Nikon, Sony, Pentax) make good DSLRS. Without being tied to one brand (already having a large lens collection) it really comes down to which system works best for you and which body feels comfortable and easy to use. Remember that you are not just buying a camera, but buying into a system, so things like lenses and their corresponding prices need to be taken into account.

I am an Olympus guy so I will comment on that side of things. I have an E-510 here are the pros and cons of that camera.

Pros: Great value (body and 2 lenses for $750), Kit lenses are actually pretty good, relatively compact size, in body image stabilization (no need for more expensive IS lenses), 2X crop factor means longer telephoto for less $$, good IQ at lower ISOs, decent selection of lenses, great battery life, live view, sturdily built body (but not waterproof nor ruggedized), self cleaning sensor

Cons: Noise at higher ISOs/really long exposures, 2X crop factor means wide angle lenses are pricier, included software is atrocious, smaller dynamic range when shooting in JPEG (raw DR is better), less third party accessories available than for other systems (macro tube sets for example)

The E-520 is coming out soon, this is supposedly quite an upgrade over the 510 in terms of image quality, Photo-John may be able to better comment on this, he's lucky enough to have used one. This might be a good option for you, also this will push the 510's price down even further.
There is also the E-420, which is quite similar, but comes in a smaller size and loses the IS.

[Frog]

As far as package deals go, I would be very careful.
They seem great when you see them...pro lenses, por tripods, pro cases, etc.
The problem is that anything can be called "pro" and in my experience anything that is described as "pro" is something a real professional would never use.
Even the highly rated ebay sellers like Cameta will sell these 'kits'.
My advice is to buy a body and lens package with a lens that has a fairly wide to moderate zoom. You'll soon figure out what you need beyond that. In the long run you'll save money by buying higher quality items that you don't have to replace for years.
Both of the package deals you listed look very iffy. They are offering you a decent camera with not so good lenses and a bunch of junky stuff.

[Pgh_N8tv]

I was suspect of the prices offered with those online deals, what you all have said have confirmed my suspicions enough to keep my distance.

With that said, I looked for camera shops where I live, Roanoke, VA and was a little disappointed. It seems as though Ritz is my only option, atleast according to Google...

At this point I am still gathering info. to report back to you folks. I will have a chat with the local Ritz guy and go from there.

Is Ritz a good place to go, I imagine that it depends on the store and whom is working there. Does anyone know if they work off of commission? Again, I have a fear of getting talked into something I don't need.

Hope to report more back soon.

[Anbesol]

Ritz is legitimate, yes, but they will also always charge full MSRP. For a better deal use an online dealer like BHPhoto.com - save you money and save you tax!

[dumpy]

From what I have seen Ritz has very little selection, about the same as Best Buy for DSLRs

[dumpy]

Wow there are a lot of Ritz Camera shops in your town. I did a search on Canon's website for all dealers within a 90 mile radius of Roanoke. From the looks of it there are a few in town other than Ritz/Circuit City/Walmart, although those do seem to be in the majority,

Here ya go:
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...=44&submit.y=6

Couldn't find a Nikon dealer locator, Olympus's site returned nothing other than big box and Lowepro's site (which I can't link to the results of) listed some camera shops in Lynchburg and Greensboro.

I've never been to your town, but I'm getting the impression it is big box hell. Is there a real lack of local businesses there or just for cameras?

[Frog]

Here is a list of online dealers that members of this site have recomended...see camera dealer feedback

Recommended sites and sites to avoid