New wide angle point and shoots??

[littleblue]

Hello,

This is my first post on these boards. I am in need of a new digital camera. I really have like the canon sd series that I have purchased in the past but now that everything is going to wide screen, I would like a camera that shoots as such.

I've looked into the panasonic dmc lx2 which seems a bit big, and also the fx-01 and fx-07. Only thing is I've hear too many complaints about noise to be comfortable with buying one. Does canon plan to release something comparable anytime soon? I hear that spring is when they all come out w/ new products.

So my requirements are at least 6-7mp, at least 3x optical zoom, wide angle, movie capability, etc. Do I have any options now or in the near future? Thanks.

[Photo-John]

The annual PMA tradeshow just wrapped up. Check out our 2007 PMA coverage.

What are you shooting with now and what are your expectations regarding noise? I think it's good to be cautious about what you believe regarding noise - especially when you're getting some of your information from Internet forums. There are a lot of people who are too worried about image quality and not concerned enough with actually taking pictures. While it's true that noise can be an issue, when you're talking about P&S digital cameras, noise is something that has to be accepted. If you want no noise, then you have to go with a digital SLR. And I've found that often it's fair to trade a little noise for better fucntionality.

Personally, I like the Panasonic compacts, even if there are cameras with slightly better image quality. And the reason I mention them is that the cameras they introduced at this year's PMA show all have real wide, 28mm lenses. And the Panasonic MEGA O.I.S. image stabilization means you can shoot at least one sensitivity step lower. That effectively delivers lower noise.

By the way, I wrote an editorial review of the Panasonic LX2 and I agree it's a little big for a point-and-shoot. I like the camera controls and features and took some great pictures with it. But I want my compact cameras to really be compact. In the case of the LX2, I'd trade features for size and get a camera with less manual control that fits in my pocket.

[littleblue]

Yeah, beng compact is a big plus. I like being able to keep it comfortably in a pocket, etc. The camera I was using before I dropped it was a Canon SD 450. Usually I do take things with a grain of salt from forums and such, but in the case of the Panasonica mentioed above and noise, pretty much every review from cnet, epinions, etc. complained of noise. Also dpreview.

I I'm really focused on size and wide angle. I really like canons user friendly interface as well. I'll check out that link. In the mean time, anyone else?

[Photo-John]

Well, I'm going in the opposite direction from everyone else here. I get to use a lot of cameras and when it comes to compacts, I'll go for size and features over image quality. For that reason, I like Panasonic, Casio, and Olympus. For me, they offer cameras that give me the most in the most compact, usable package. For pure image quality, I think I'd have to stick with Canon, Sony, and Fuji. The wide angle part is making it tough, though. You might want to look up the Fujifilm F31fd and the just announced Fujifilm F40fd. For image quality, you can't get much better than the Fuji compacts. We're actually working on a review of the F31fd and already have studio tests up, if you're interested. However, that camera has the standard 36mm wide angle lens.

Fujifilm F31fd Pro Review Preview >>

[littleblue]

Hmm, I've been looking over that list of cameras and the Panasonic Lumix DMC-FX30 looks pretty nice. Can someone please clarify something? When they say wide angle lense, does that just mean that at the lowest zoom setting I will see more in the picture? Or does it have the capability to shoot in wide angle to fill up wide screen monitors/tv's? Thats displaying at 16:9 right?

[zrfraser]

wide angle means that you will see more of the picture, but panasonics do have the ability to shoot in 3:2, 4:3, and and 16:9 if you choose, its all in the menus. I like the LZ5 a lot. 6MP, 6x optical zoom, movies with sound, 2.5 inch screen, and IS. All for about $200, its a little big for the pocket, but still a great camera.

[Photo-John]

16:9 is really just an aspect ratio or the image proportions. You can shoot and crop any image to those proportions, if you want. Wide angle actually means the angle of view that the lens captures. That's different from the aspect ratio. You can get 16:9 from any lens. But real wide angle requires optics that give you a wider angle of view.

[littleblue]

I'm confused...if you crop images to look like they are "panoramic" shots, don't you lose some of the picture. I was talking about something like the lx2. http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/l...leica_ccd.html But was I don't understand is, that lx2 and the fx30 both have 28mm lenses, but only the lx2 displays at 16:9. Why is that? Is that just because it has an actual wide screen display on the camera itself?

Here is an example. If I were to use an lx2 to take a picture in its wide angle 16:9 mode, and then I transfered the picture to my pc, that picture would automatically fill up the screen (its a wide screen monitor) right? Now if I use the FX30, the picture would be a wide angle picture, but not fill up the screen....?

[Mr Yuck]

What is your monitor's native resolution? If it's 1440x900 or 1280x800, it's actually 16:10, a little taller than 16:9, so to avoid stretching, it's gonna either not fill up the monitor or you'll have to crop it some.

The "widescreen" cameras, as far as I know, can also shoot in regular aspect ratio, to get 16:9 (standard wide screen television), the camera crops the picture. (maybe the 28mm ones are different, but I dont know)

Here's some pictures I took and cropped from 4:3 aspect ratio to 16:10 or about 16:10

[Photo-John]

I'm confused

You're confusing two separate and different things. "Wide angle" and "aspect ratio" are completely different things. The 16:9 aspect ratio is a proportion, a dimension, if you will. Wide angle is something completely different. I can make a 16:9 telephoto image or a 16:9 wide angle image. It's just the proportions of the image. I can crop an image to get those proportions. But wide angle is an optical function. It requires a lens that sees at a wide angle. Think of the way you see when you look at something in front of you. And then think about adding what's in your peripheral vision into the image. The first image would be something like a 50mm lens view (in 35mm). Adding your peripheral vision makes it wide angle. But neither view is 16:9. It only becomes 16:9 when you crop the image.

This is hard to explain. I've never tried before. Is it starting to make sense? The best example of wide angle is a fisheye lens. It's distorted as hell because of the super-wide angle of view. But it's not 16:9. That only happens when you apply an artificial frame to the view the lens captures. Actually, all lenses capture what's called an "image circle." The film or sensor size and proportions determine the aspect ratio. The LX2 can only capture in 28mm when it's in the 16:9 mode. Otherwise it isn't use the farther edges of the image circle and is probably only shooting at 35mm.

[littleblue]

Thanks for the clarification. I understand that the wide angle lense is what makes the picture wide angle. I guess the real question I'm trying to get at now is whether or not the camera automatically formats the image into a 16:9 which is what I'm assuming the LX2 does.

In anycase, I guess it doesn't really matter. The real purpose for the wide angle lense is to capture more picture when I'm on my boat. It's a 19ft boat and I do a lot of fishing, but with a normal camera is hard to get a lot of scenary into the photo because it isn't a wide enough angle.

I went to Best Buy and COMP USA today but neither of them had the FX30. That seems to be what I'm looking for. There should be no new camera releases in the near future other than the ones mentioned in the link provided to me earlier in this thread right?

[Photo-John]

The LX2, I believe, has a differently proportioned sensor than other cameras. The sensor itself is 16:9, which is not normal. It's also the reason that you can only shoot at the full 10-megapixels in 16:9. In a "normal" aspect ratio it's only an 8-megapixel camera. So that extra two million pixels is on the ends of the image that make it into 16:9. I hope that makes sense. I have been having a hell of a time explaining this. I think I should have just taken some pictures. Anyway, you're right about needing wide angle in a boat. And 16:9 has nothing to do with it. It could be 4:5 and a wide angle lens would still be better for your boat. But it would show more of the top and bottom, too. That's the only difference. If you want to look at the photos on your widescreen TV, all you have to do is crop them to fit. That's easy, if you're willing to open them up on the computer and make a quick crop.

As far as what's available, I don't expect any new announcements to be made until late summer. Of course, you never know with digital technology. But the normal announcement schedule is spring and then fall. And the PMA tradeshow is done, so we should see anything new for a few months. Of the new Panasonics, the FX30 looks good. But if you want more, check out the TZ30, too. It's not a big camera, really. But it's got a lot of lens and that would allow you to get some long shots from the boat as well as shots of the inside of the boat.

If you don't mind buying online, check B&H Photo and Adorama to see if they have what you want. They're both huge dealers with excellent reputations.

[littleblue]

Thanks again for the explanation. Back to the topic of panasonics and noise, out of curiosity, have they done anything to their new batch of cameras that would reduce the amount of noise they produce? Again, I'm worried because of what I've read on dpreview, and cnet.