Need advice on a setup for nightlife/rave photograpyhy

[Phishie]

Hello everybody. I am an intermediate photographer. I used to shoot film in high school and I can get some decent pix with my point-n-shoot but I've been wanting to buy a DSLR for the longest time. My financial situation is finally allowing me to buy one. So I need your help.

My budget for the body and beginning lens is $1200. I am going to buy the flash later and willing to spend around $300 on that.

I was thinking about getting a Nikon D90 and either this 50mm 1.8 or this 28mm 2.8.

My first film SLR was a Nikon and I loved it. I've also shot with a few Nikon DSLRs and I like them so I think I want to stick with Nikon.

Let me know what you think about the choices. Keep in mind, I will be shooting clubs and raves which means night portraits and a lot of movement, crazy lighting conditions, etc.

Please please please feel free to suggest other cameras (Nikon), lenses, and strobes too. I don't know ANYTHING about digital flashes/strobes so any advice on that would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!!!

[Photo-John]

Welcome to PhotographyREVIEW.com, Phishie. I've done a lot of club and show shooting in my life and it is tricky. I think proper technique is the most important thing. Knowing how to make a good exposure and set up an interesting shot are the most important things, no matter what camera you have. But low light photography is one area where a better camera can make a big difference. And right now, the D90 is one of the best. It's low light, high-ISO performance is excellent - especially for the money. My usual advice is to buy the cheapest digital SLR and a great lens. And you could get a D60 and shoot great photos. But if you've got the budget, the D90 will make a difference shooting in clubs.

For lenses, I'd go wide. The 50mm is a great lens. But for club photos I think a wide lens adds some drama and excitement. Also, 28mm isn't even wide with an APS-C DSLR like the D90. With the 1.5x crop factor, that lens will be comparable to a 42mm lens. Take a look at the Tokina 12-24mm f/4 lens. It's gonna cost more and it may be a good reason to compromise on the body. But it will give you a lot more options when you're shooting. My "party rig" is a Canon XSi / 450D or EOS 50D with the 12-24mm Tokina and a flash with an off-shoe cord.

[Phishie]

Thanks for your input, John. You are really able to get enough light with that f4 lens? My whole reason for going for the other two lenses was because of the f2 and f2.8 stops. I would actually prefer something wider... but I know a fast, wide-angle is really expensive.

I am going to be shooting for quite a while and I hate having sub-par equipment. This is why I haven't gone for a cheaper camera already hahaha.

As far as setting up interesting photos and making good exposures... well here are some sets that I shot with my little Casio Exilim point-n-shoot. Feel free to browse. =]

http://www.caliraves.com/images/rave...ces/index.html
http://www.caliraves.com/images/rave...ces/index.html

Enjoy!

[jrbechthold]

I would definitely go with the D90 - the high ISO performance on the D90 is wonderful - some people say even better than the D300. The 50mm f1.8 is a great lens and for the price, it should be in everyone's camera bag. Also Nikon just announced a 35mm f1.8 that is coming out in the next month - that will be my next prime - and it is priced at $199 I think - I am sure it will become just as popular as the 50mm f1.8 for shooting in low light situations.

Good Luck!

[Photo-John]

Thanks for posting the photo links - they look great. Obviously you are already doing very well with the technique. You've got the slow shutter speed with flash thing down. And I think that's one of the best techniques for club photos. I love the flash and blur action. The more blur the better!

If you had an unlimited budget this would be easy. But you don't. And for me, the look and style of this kind of photo is the most important thing. Any digital SLR is going to be a huge improvement over what you're shooting with now. Sure, the D90 would be awesome. But the best low light performance and a lens with no style just wouldn't cut it for me. For action club photos I think real wide-angle is mandatory. You may not agree, and that's fine.

I've been shooting this kind of stuff for years, with much lesser cameras than the Nikon D60 or D40x. I think you'd be amazed with the high-ISO performance of those cameras. Sure, there are cameras that will do better. But even the lowliest current DSLR is going to blow away what your Casio can do. As far as lenses go, I've got faster than the Tokina, including a 50mm f/1.4. But the Tokina is the lens I want to use for club shots because it's got the right look. Put the D60 on ISO 800 with the 12-24 at f/4 and you're going to get great photos. I don't want to be without real wide-angle. If you did shoot with the 50mm wide open, you'd have no depth-of-field. That's no good.

[Phishie]

Ya I like to shoot with a slow shutter. A lot of these rave "photographers" disagree but it really does help pull in the environment. What good is a perfectly clear photo if it doesn't look like you are in the club? Hahaha! I love it when I get pix and people have lasers shooting out of their heads. It gives me a good chuckle but also makes it feel more authentic. =P

Yes ISO performance is one thing I was concerned with. I most likely would be shooting at 800. I think I am going to get the D90 and the 28mm. I'll get a wide-angle later. I do like wide-angle pix but after a while I start to get sick of them hehe.

I might drop down to the D80. Would I be losing anything significant? I know the D90 sensor is better. But if my exposures are good, it shouldn't make too much of a difference, right? I am mainly concerned with graininess in the picture. Particularly the blacks.

Also... I do a lot of touching up in photoshop so I'd want some flexibility with being able to adjust shadows/highlights/levels without artifacts showing up. I edit photos from multiple photographers and I noticed that with some of them I can reduce the shadows and increase the brightness by a lot and the photo looks fine but with some of the other photographers, I can only make limited adjustments before the photo begins to look grainy and horrible.

Would you know if this is due to the camera sensor, or just the exposure being off?

Thanks for all the help!

[Photo-John]

The D90 has much better high-ISO performance than the D80. But it's all relative. The D80 will crush your Casio. You'll find controlled studio samples at all ISO settings for both cameras on our Sample Photos page.

Noice is a combination of the sensor and how hard you push your image files. So a good exposure is always important. The higher the ISO the more noise you'll have. And then the harder you push the file in Photoshop, the more you'll increase the noise that's already there. But moving to a DSLR with a larger sensor than your Casio is going to make a huge difference. The kind of noise your used to won't be a problem until you get up to ISO 1600 or so. Compare the D80 and D90 studio tests at the page above to your current camera to get an idea of how just moving to a DSLR will improve your image quality. Check the D40X samples, too.

[Frog]

Instead of the Tokina 11-24 f/4, wouldn't the Tokina 11-16 f/2.8 work better with that wider aperture?

[Phishie]

Thanks for that link to the sample photos. It helped a lot. I am getting very close to reaching my decision.

One last question about lens choice. I want to look into some off-brand lenses. What brands do you think I should consider? I heard Sigma is good and you were suggesting that Tokina. What are some other good choices?

Thanks to everybody for the help, I really appreciate it!

[Singletracklovr]

Love the urban wildlife shots, Phishie...very creative.

A wide angle lens will also let you get closer to your subjects while showing more background.