Looking for a fast zoom lens for D7000

[iceman2058]

Hi all!

Based on the excellent result I got the last time I asked a question here (which resulted in me getting the Sigma 17-50 f2.8 EX DC OS with which I am extremely pleased!), I am turning to your collective good selves again for the next one....I need a bit more range, but am loath to go down the traditional kit lens route...I want if possible to find a good medium-range, fast (2.8) zoom (or fixed) lens. I've looked through the usual suspects, but this is doing my head in. Either the weight is crazy, price is too steep, or when I find something that looks good, they are already discontinued or have horrible reviews. For example, the Sigma 50-150 2.8 looked promising, but the new version appears never to made it to market, and the old one has so-so reviews. The Tokina 50-135 2.8 looked promising, but appears discountinued already? The Nikon 70-200 2.8 is a beast of a lens....too much to go biking with for example (and a bit out of budget).
I am not against a fixed focal length lens, if there is a reasonably priced one which offers f2.8 - I can work with that. I'm really after the creative aspect of a faster telephoto lens (as well as IQ hopefully), which is why I don't want to get stuck with a 18-200 f5.6....

Open to suggestions! (or even if someone wants to sell something used...now could be a good time... ).

thanks!

[Franglais]

Why do you need a f2.8 lens? You have a camera which gets good results at 3200 ISO or even 6400 ISO. I assume that you do your biking in daylight. Why not settle for a more modest aperture and increase the ISO a bit?

Today f2.8 lenses are intended for professionals who need to be able to shoot at any time including in less-than optimal light conditions. They are difficult to make, big, heavy and expensive as you have discovered.

[iceman2058]

Why do you need a f2.8 lens? You have a camera which gets good results at 3200 ISO or even 6400 ISO. I assume that you do your biking in daylight. Why not settle for a more modest aperture and increase the ISO a bit?

Today f2.8 lenses are intended for professionals who need to be able to shoot at any time including in less-than optimal light conditions. They are difficult to make, big, heavy and expensive as you have discovered.

I appear to have fallen in love with action pictures with a very shallow depth of field, especially shot at some distance. So it's really more about the creative aspect, as well as IQ (as I said, hopefully...a higher-end lens would hopefully also improve IQ in general). Also, stuff like indoors Judo, maybe the odd family gathering/wedding, and what not, where even at ISO 3200 you might struggle to keep your shutter speeds fast enough to freeze action, unless you can keep the lens wide open even while zooming in.

I guess I sound like I would like to have my cake and eat it (AND get it on sale )...sort of hoping I would discover that one gem of a lens, you know...maybe it doesn't really exist. In which case I'll have to settle for the smaller aperture. And that will probably turn out to be more than good enough for me...but since I'm shopping around, I thought I would properly research the issue first.

[iceman2058]

After some more research, I've come across this:

Nikon | Imaging Products | AF Nikkor 180mm f/2.8D IF-ED

Looks like a pretty good compromise, seems to produce excellent IQ, it's fast, and it's not excessively big or heavy (at 750grams). Pricewise, it's in the budget.

On the APS-c D7000, it will be quite a powerful zoom as well with the crop factor.

Am I missing something, or does this seem to tick my boxes (the trade-off being the lack of zoom in this case)?

[Franglais]

After some more research, I've come across this:

Nikon | Imaging Products | AF Nikkor 180mm f/2.8D IF-ED

Looks like a pretty good compromise, seems to produce excellent IQ, it's fast, and it's not excessively big or heavy (at 750grams). Pricewise, it's in the budget.

On the APS-c D7000, it will be quite a powerful zoom as well with the crop factor.

Am I missing something, or does this seem to tick my boxes (the trade-off being the lack of zoom in this case)?

It's quite a powerful telephoto lens. Zoom means you can change the focal length which of course you can't on the 180mm. And that's a huge trade-off. This was a great lens in the 90's and then f2.8 telephoto zoom lenses arrived and wiped them out. When you're dealing with a moving subject then the ability to zoom in any out and follow the action is essential IMHO. (I think the 180mm is too long for most sports with the D7000 - but it depends on what images you have in mind)

Check out the 80-200 f2.8 and the 80-200 f2.8 AF-S. Both of these lenses are discontinued but fairly readily available at a much more reasonable price than the 70-200 f2.8. Of course they are big and heavy but that's the laws of optics.

http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/lens..._28d/index.htm

[wfooshee]

I agree that a 180mm fixed is not going to be as useful as you'd think. But long and fast lenses are going to have a LOT of glass in them, big at the front for that light-gathering ability.

For my own personal use I have Nikon's 70-300 VR, but it's only f/4.5-5.6. Still, it's not bulky at all, and the VR makes it VERY nice to use.

I find myself using it on the low 100s zoom range most of the time, though, in my most-used activity of races and air shows. There are some shots at 300 that I just never could do until I got it, but I'm sure glad I stayed with a zoom instead of a long prime!

Of course, most of that activity is outdoors in bright light.

[iceman2058]

It's quite a powerful telephoto lens. Zoom means you can change the focal length which of course you can't on the 180mm. And that's a huge trade-off. This was a great lens in the 90's and then f2.8 telephoto zoom lenses arrived and wiped them out. When you're dealing with a moving subject then the ability to zoom in any out and follow the action is essential IMHO. (I think the 180mm is too long for most sports with the D7000 - but it depends on what images you have in mind)

Check out the 80-200 f2.8 and the 80-200 f2.8 AF-S. Both of these lenses are discontinued but fairly readily available at a much more reasonable price than the 70-200 f2.8. Of course they are big and heavy but that's the laws of optics.

Nikon | Imaging Products | AF Zoom-Nikkor 80-200mm f/2.8D ED (2.5x)

Yes, I apologize for my very sloppy interchangeable use of the terms "zoom" and "telephoto" which of course are not the same thing (but you knew what I meant... :blush2: ).

I have looked at the 80-200 AF-D, which gets stellar reviews, at the right price point. Equally, there's a Sigma equivalent at a good price (for the non-OS version at least)...probably come down to what I can dig up and at what price.

I fully understand the limitations of taking a prime lens approach to this situation - it would be used for "static" scenes, where the shot would be set up well in advanced, most likely even pre-focused manually (or at the very least locked), thus negating the need for being able to follow a subject with zoom. As I said, I realize this will add constraints, but in my mind, it will deliver superior IQ (OK maybe not by much or even noticable at my level), and the constraint might actually spark creativity...

[Franglais]

I just checked out photozone.de for the reviews on these lenses on APS-C cameras.

- the 180mm f2.8 is very good. The resolution is almost constant at all apertures, center and edges. I like this sort of lens
- the 80-200 f2.8 is very nearly as good. In real life I find you just can't see this sort of difference unless you go pixel peeking at 200% which is stupid
- the 70-200 f2.8 has higher resolution than the 180mm a lot of the time. Gosh

If I had the 180mm then I would use it to pick out individual players at quiet moments in the game. That seems like a nice subject. But I would be extremely frustrated at not being able to follow the action by having a range of focal lengths. I hate carrying around big lenses but if I were you I would go for the zoom lens

BTW I have the 80-200mm f2.8 AF-S which is a monster but I find it's great

[iceman2058]

I just checked out photozone.de for the reviews on these lenses on APS-C cameras.

- the 180mm f2.8 is very good. The resolution is almost constant at all apertures, center and edges. I like this sort of lens
- the 80-200 f2.8 is very nearly as good. In real life I find you just can't see this sort of difference unless you go pixel peeking at 200% which is stupid
- the 70-200 f2.8 has higher resolution than the 180mm a lot of the time. Gosh

If I had the 180mm then I would use it to pick out individual players at quiet moments in the game. That seems like a nice subject. But I would be extremely frustrated at not being able to follow the action by having a range of focal lengths. I hate carrying around big lenses but if I were you I would go for the zoom lens

BTW I have the 80-200mm f2.8 AF-S which is a monster but I find it's great

Thanks for that, I appreciate the help. I'm pretty much sold on the zoom lens (almost begrudgingly, I was sort of looking forward to the "exotic" nature of the long prime...). Shopping around, it's not all that easy to find the 80-200....I have however found a couple of good deals on the similar Sigma. Photozone.de call it "a viable alternative to the 80-200, but not necessarily superior"...based on the review (link below), would you say that is true enough, or it's worth looking harder for the Nikon? (price difference is not insignificant):

Sigma AF 70-200mm f/2.8 EX DG HSM APO macro (Nikon) - Review / Test Report - Sample Images & Verdict

thanks!

Johan

[Franglais]

That test report dates from 2007. I don't follow Sigma lenses. There may have been several versions. Prices as far as I can see from the B&H web site are:

Nikon 180mm f2.8 = $899
Nikon 80-200 f2.8 non AF-S = $1089
Sigma 70-200 f2.8 = $1399

The Nikon 80-200 f2.8 is a good choice IMHO because it is only slightly more expensive than the 180mm. It is still in the catalogue and you can still order a new one from B&H. However as far as I am aware manufacturing was stopped in about 1999 so it's been sitting in a warehouse for 12 years. But as Nikon only made one version you're sure it's the same lens as the one tested.

With the Sigma I don't know how many versions there have been.

[iceman2058]

I was looking at the non-OS version of the Sigma which is significantly cheaper. Still undecided...

[armando_m]

From reading reviews I understand the OS version of the Sigma is significantly better than the non OS version, with image quality close to the Nikon equivalent
Fast focus
and excellent OS

[Franglais]

... I'm pretty much sold on the zoom lens (almost begrudgingly, I was sort of looking forward to the "exotic" nature of the long prime...).
...

"Exotic" is not the word that comes to mind. I see it more as a collector's piece. It used to be leading edge technology then it got overtaken by zooms. Much bigger but much more practical.

The "exotic" equivalent today is the 200mm f2 but that's in another price-range.

[Levi1990]

Depending on what your budget is, I would go with a 70-200mm. I went with the Tamron version and it's done me well. Tack sharp, no problems with the autofocus, nice professional weight to it and doesn't feel cheap in the hands.

Another thing I found out is that while testing out my teachers Nikon 70-200 and my Tamron version on his full frame Nikon D700, the Nikon vignettes more than the Tamron does. Plus you can't beat the Tamron with it's $700 price tag compared to the Nikon's $2,200 price tag.

But really, I think it all comes down to what subject you're shooting really. If you're shooting sports, the Tamron is not for you. But I bought mine for a long portrait lens and some wildlife shooting and it works great for that.

[iceman2058]

Well, went out for a stroll in the town I was visting yesterday, and stumbled upon a pristine Sigma 70-200...pulled the trigger even if it's not the OS version. So far, I'm loving it... ;)

Very happy to have gone with a zoom, in the first 5 minutes of playing around with it I realized just how tough it would be to deal with a fixed 180mm for example...

I'll get to posting some pics and stuff later.

Thanks all for the input, much appreciated!

[iceman2058]

As promised, here are a few samples. 3 sets of 2 shots, first the whole shot, then a crop showing detail. I'm pretty stoked, looks like there is some fun to be had with this lens. All shot at f2.8, various focal lengths. Moderate processing in Lightroom 4, quick n' dirty :-)

Trailbuilder's shoes (185mm, f2.8 ISO 160):

Full shot:


Crop:


Blue pots (130mm, f2.8, ISO 160):

Full shot:


Crop:


Fruit bowl (70mm, f2.8, ISO 2500):

Full shot:


Crop: