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  1. #1
    Liz
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    Help! which p&s for friend.....

    I'm looking for a p&s for a good friend. I've been checking reviews, etc. till I'm blue in the face! I need some help deciding! Here is the criteria:

    Panasonic or Canon would probably work best because I can teach her how to use it properly!

    IQ - most important (sharp/good color jpeg)

    good results (straight out of camera on auto (she doesn't like to fool too much with settings or post processing)

    Good low light/indoor images

    Wide angle & decent zoom (approx: 25 (or 28 - 160 (35mm comp)

    Decent price $200 - $300

    She is going on vacation to Florida. She has a Panasonic TZ3 which is a decent camera but the color is not great - needs lots of tweaking, setting changes, post processing. Not so great straight out of camera. The zoom is nice & long, but images are quite soft and blurry at the middle/longer end.

    Thanks for any advice and/or suggestions.

    Liz

  2. #2
    Captain of the Ship Photo-John's Avatar
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    Re: Help! which p&s for friend.....

    Liz-
    For image quality I think Canon is about as good as it gets. My second choice would be Sony. I like the Panasonic compacts but the image quality frustrates me a little. For that reason I always end up buying Canon compacts. I *want* to choose a Panasonic for the features and performance. But I always end up with Canon because of the image quality. If I did buy a Panasonic I'd buy either a ZS or FX Series camera. In my opinion, that's the good stuff.

    I have always been impressed by Sony but never really liked their UI. My time spent reviewing the Sony TX5 has me thinking again. The TX5 was, hands down, my favorite waterproof camera ever. And it has me thinking I'd like to try their non-waterproof pocket superzoom, the Cybershot HX5V. The image quality probably isn't up to Canon standards. But I bet the performance and features are excellent and the image quality should still be very good - for a point-and-shoot.

    As far as canon goes, I'd have your friend look at the Canon PowerShot SX210 IS. I think it's probably got the best range of features and the price is right at under $300 (street). If you want the best image quality you'll have to step up to either the PowerShot S95 or the SD4500 IS, which I'm testing right now. They're both more expensive but they use Canon's "HS System," which arguably delivers the best image quality currently available for point-and-shoot cameras. I loved last year's S90 and the S95 is basically the same except it has HD video now. I bought the SD4500 IS because it has the HS System, a 10x zoom lens and full 1080p HD video. However, after I bought it I discovered that the lens is only 36mm at the wide end. So if you want really wide, it's not the best choice.

    That should give you some direction. Or confuse you more. If nothing else, it gives you a range of options to consider. I like Canon but I think Sony is worth taking a closer look at these days. I'm impressed with whaht they're making this year.
    Photo-John

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  3. #3
    Liz
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    Re: Help! which p&s for friend.....

    Thanks John......I'm checking them out.

    What about the SX200 (vs 210). I found a used one for $225 - like-new.

    How much of an Image quality difference is there between this one and the S90 or 4500?

    Thanks.

    Liz

  4. #4
    Captain of the Ship Photo-John's Avatar
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    Re: Help! which p&s for friend.....

    I haven't compared the SX200 and SX210 Liz, but I expect the SX200 is fine.

    Image quality is sort of hard to judge. The S90 and S95 have RAW - but that would mean your friend would need to process the RAW photos. The biggest issue with point-and-shoot JPEGs is how much compression is used to make the JPEGs. The higher end cameras have less compression in a super-fine JPEG setting. I can't remember but I expect the S95 has that. My old SD950 IS, which I gave to my mom, had a super-fine setting. I was disappointed to discover that the SD4500 IS does not - that's indicative of its consumer-oriented design. I do think the image quality is good with the SD4500 IS, though. The lack of a real wide-angle lens is the bigger issue for me.

    Here's a link to a gallery of SD4500 IS images. I haven't posted many yet but I'lll probably post a bunch today since I'm working on a review: http://gallery.photographyreview.com...XUS+1000+HS%7C
    Photo-John

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  5. #5
    Liz
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    Re: Help! which p&s for friend.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Photo-John
    I haven't compared the SX200 and SX210 Liz, but I expect the SX200 is fine.

    Image quality is sort of hard to judge. The S90 and S95 have RAW - but that would mean your friend would need to process the RAW photos. The biggest issue with point-and-shoot JPEGs is how much compression is used to make the JPEGs. The higher end cameras have less compression in a super-fine JPEG setting. I can't remember but I expect the S95 has that. My old SD950 IS, which I gave to my mom, had a super-fine setting. I was disappointed to discover that the SD4500 IS does not - that's indicative of its consumer-oriented design. I do think the image quality is good with the SD4500 IS, though. The lack of a real wide-angle lens is the bigger issue for me.

    Here's a link to a gallery of SD4500 IS images. I haven't posted many yet but I'lll probably post a bunch today since I'm working on a review: http://gallery.photographyreview.com...XUS+1000+HS%7C
    I'm looking at a used "like-new" S90 for $275 - seems like a good deal. The S90 is still going for $340 or more.

    I can't "super fine" setting information/option in the list of specs in the S90 or S95. Where do I look?

    Liz

  6. #6
    Be serious Franglais's Avatar
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    Re: Help! which p&s for friend.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Liz
    I'm looking at a used "like-new" S90 for $275 - seems like a good deal. The S90 is still going for $340 or more.

    I can't "super fine" setting information/option in the list of specs in the S90 or S95. Where do I look?

    Liz
    From the S95 instruction manual:

    You can do "Standard" or "Fine" compression settings. "Fine" gives you a file which is about 2.5MB which corresponds to the "good balance" setting I usually use when converting from RAW.

    I'm just finding my way around the S95. My impression is that under it's point-and-shoot appearance it's a really serious machine designed for experts. Your friend would probably never use the features I'm interested in (starting with RAW) and she might even be disappointed that the lens is "only" the equivalent of a 28-105. Not what you want if you are oing on a safari or doing motor racing.

    The lens on the S95 is excellent. On Friday I borrowed a Nikon D3S with the new 28-300VR lens and did a quick comparison with the S95 - pixel-peep the fine detail and there's hardly any difference.
    Charles

    Nikon D800, D7200, Sony RX100m3
    Not buying any more gear this year. I hope

  7. #7
    Liz
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    Re: Help! which p&s for friend.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Franglais
    From the S95 instruction manual:

    You can do "Standard" or "Fine" compression settings. "Fine" gives you a file which is about 2.5MB which corresponds to the "good balance" setting I usually use when converting from RAW.

    I'm just finding my way around the S95. My impression is that under it's point-and-shoot appearance it's a really serious machine designed for experts. Your friend would probably never use the features I'm interested in (starting with RAW) and she might even be disappointed that the lens is "only" the equivalent of a 28-105. Not what you want if you are oing on a safari or doing motor racing.

    The lens on the S95 is excellent. On Friday I borrowed a Nikon D3S with the new 28-300VR lens and did a quick comparison with the S95 - pixel-peep the fine detail and there's hardly any difference.
    Thanks for your input, Charles. I think the S90 is similar to the S95 - with the upgrade having some added (really nice) features. Regarding the zoom, I explain to Judy that she would be getting a shorter zoom, but the IQ would be better than what she has.

    Right now she has a Panasonic TZ5. It is mostly an "auto only" camera - virtually no manual. However, I don't know if she got a lemon or what, but on auto (or iAuto) the IQ is absolutely awful. I read some reviews on the camera and they aren't bad, so I don't know what is wrong. The reviews say the camera works well in auto, but these images are soft, incredible noise in low light which basically ruins even the small prints. Most of them have a yellow cast. I haven't checked the camera out to see if I could find anything. However, if she is using it on auto, I don't know how it could be this bad when the camera is supposed to deliver quality images on the default settings.

    I don't know any other camera that would be good for her. I didn't realize how many compromises in less expensive p&s cameras.

    Thanks again. Glad you're enjoying your S95!

    Liz

  8. #8
    Captain of the Ship Photo-John's Avatar
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    Re: Help! which p&s for friend.....

    I pretty much agree with Charles. I think the features that set the S90 and S95 apart from other point-and-shoots won't be of any value to your friend. The S90 doesn't need a Super-Fine JPEG setting because it has RAW. But you're friend probably won't use RAW because it means more thought and some post-processing effort. I think you're better off getting her a standard point-and-shoot with an emphasis on features. I think a camera in the Canon PowerShot SX line is the way to go.

    On the other hand, some experimentation with the Panasonic might be in order first. Show her how to manually select the ISO and the white balance and see if her photos improve. My experience with Panasonic iAuto has been mostly positive. But I could see if being problematic in low light and indoors. On the other hand, it's probably doing better than she would on her own.

    If you're interested, I will have studio samples from the SD4500 IS up later today. They're already shot and I just need to add the graphics, upload them and build the page.
    Photo-John

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  9. #9
    Liz
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    Re: Help! which p&s for friend.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Photo-John
    I pretty much agree with Charles. I think the features that set the S90 and S95 apart from other point-and-shoots won't be of any value to your friend. The S90 doesn't need a Super-Fine JPEG setting because it has RAW. But you're friend probably won't use RAW because it means more thought and some post-processing effort. I think you're better off getting her a standard point-and-shoot with an emphasis on features. I think a camera in the Canon PowerShot SX line is the way to go.

    On the other hand, some experimentation with the Panasonic might be in order first. Show her how to manually select the ISO and the white balance and see if her photos improve. My experience with Panasonic iAuto has been mostly positive. But I could see if being problematic in low light and indoors. On the other hand, it's probably doing better than she would on her own.

    If you're interested, I will have studio samples from the SD4500 IS up later today. They're already shot and I just need to add the graphics, upload them and build the page.
    John,

    I appreciate your input. I'm taking your (original) advice and checking out the SD4500 - or SD4000. Any big differences?

    HOWEVER!!!! She just asked me if there are any cameras with her original criteria - with a VIEWFINDER. She saw mine on the E-PL1.....Do you know any cameras other than the oldies that have a VF? I know you can purchase a VF for the LX5 - but how do I find out what is available with a VF?

    I have to order the camera asap - she is leaving the end of the week.

    Yes, I look forward to seeing the images......from the SD1400

    Liz

  10. #10
    Captain of the Ship Photo-John's Avatar
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    Canon SD4500 IS Studio Samples

    The Canon PowerShot SD4500 IS studio samples are posted:

    http://reviews.photographyreview.com...sample-photos/

    I don't know if this camera is right for your friend, Liz. I think a wider lens is probably important. But if image quality is a very high priority, then maybe you can compromise some of the other stuff for this image quality. For a non-RAW pocket point-and-shoot, I am pretty pleased with the image quality the SD4500 IS produces.
    Photo-John

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  11. #11
    Liz
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    Re: Canon SD4500 IS Studio Samples

    :aureola:
    Quote Originally Posted by Photo-John
    The Canon PowerShot SD4500 IS studio samples are posted:

    http://reviews.photographyreview.com...sample-photos/

    I don't know if this camera is right for your friend, Liz. I think a wider lens is probably important. But if image quality is a very high priority, then maybe you can compromise some of the other stuff for this image quality. For a non-RAW pocket point-and-shoot, I am pretty pleased with the image quality the SD4500 IS produces.
    You're right about the image quality. It looks like a nice camera from my view. However, buying a camera for someone else - and making the right decision - is WORSE than buying for myself.

    I think you're right about the wide angle. The other camera I'm considering is the Panasonic LX3 which I previously owned. It's a nice camera, easy to operate and I was always happy with the images. It also has an aperture of F/2 with a 24mm lens. Although the long end is "short" at 90mm.

    She will sell her other camera, so maybe with this consideration, the LX5 would be good. The price is $438 right now which isn't bad. And if she wants to add a viewfinder, there is the Panasonic DMW-LVF-1 for $125. The zoom on the LX5 goes to 105 vs 90 on the LX3. Decisions, decisions!

    Thanks for all of your help.

    Liz

  12. #12
    Liz
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    Re: Canon SD4500 IS Studio Samples

    Quote Originally Posted by Photo-John
    The Canon PowerShot SD4500 IS studio samples are posted:

    http://reviews.photographyreview.com...sample-photos/

    I don't know if this camera is right for your friend, Liz. I think a wider lens is probably important. But if image quality is a very high priority, then maybe you can compromise some of the other stuff for this image quality. For a non-RAW pocket point-and-shoot, I am pretty pleased with the image quality the SD4500 IS produces.
    Well, I have a friend who always said when you are struggling to make a decision between 2 good options, always look for a 3rd alternative.

    After reading all the suggestions and information here, searching reviews - and with much thought I thought the Panasonic LX5 would be the best option (btw, price is now $407 at Amazon). Since I owned the LX3, and the LX5 has some nice upgraded features (zoom 24- 90 vs only 24-60 - not much, but in real life it's quite a bit more than expected). I can help her with some of the settings, although according to the reviews, iauto makes good choices as does auto WB.

    Thanks for your help

    Liz

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