Does Nikon's 6MP CCD produce better quality than Canon's 8MP CMOS?

[HD650]

Greetings all, I am currently wondering which DSLR to buy. I have been checking out the reviews over at here when I was already decided on getting the Digital Rebel XT. Then I started to wonder which was better, CCD or CMOS. So I did a quick research and learned that CCD produces better picture quality that CMOS.

So my question is, does the Nikon D70's 6MP CCD produce better image quality than Canon's 8MP CMOS (at about the same settings)? Has the CMOS cuaght up to the CCD in image quality yet?

I have seen a crude side by side comparison of a CMOS and a CCD image but that didn't explain much.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

[HD650]

I just finished reading this thread. It helped a lot but I am still wondering if this rings true for the 2 models I mentioned.

[mwfanelli]

Greetings all, I am currently wondering which DSLR to buy. I have been checking out the reviews over at here when I was already decided on getting the Digital Rebel XT. Then I started to wonder which was better, CCD or CMOS. So I did a quick research and learned that CCD produces better picture quality that CMOS.

So my question is, does the Nikon D70's 6MP CCD produce better image quality than Canon's 8MP CMOS (at about the same settings)? Has the CMOS cuaght up to the CCD in image quality yet?

I have seen a crude side by side comparison of a CMOS and a CCD image but that didn't explain much.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

In actual fact, CMOS does a better job than CCD, especially with noise, and has done so ever since Canon introduced them many years ago. I have no idea what you have been reading. But it is highly unlikely you'd see any difference between the two. Stop worrying about the super-technical differences. Choose the camera you like best, the one with the best assortment of lenses you use, and the one that is in your price range.FWIW, the difference between 6 MP and 8MP is not very big at all.

[deckcadet]

Actually, Michael, CMOS is not superior to CCD. In fact, CMOS does tend to have have more noise, but you can add noise reduction on the chip itself.

Either is a toss up, and while CMOS sensors have excellent image quality, really neither does a truly superior job.

And I'd pit the 6mp CCD of the D50 for instance against any canon CMOS for noise

But I have to thank you for getting to the real point- the difference is so small as to be negligible. Try both and walk out with the one you like the feel and system for best.

[mwfanelli]

Actually, Michael, CMOS is not superior to CCD. In fact, CMOS does tend to have have more noise, but you can add noise reduction on the chip itself.

Either is a toss up, and while CMOS sensors have excellent image quality, really neither does a truly superior job.

And I'd pit the 6mp CCD of the D50 for instance against any canon CMOS for noise

But I have to thank you for getting to the real point- the difference is so small as to be negligible. Try both and walk out with the one you like the feel and system for best.

Unfortunately, the tech tests on DP Review prove this to be wrong. Although the Nikon cameras do a good job, Canon and CMOS are the low-noise champs.

[HD650]

Thank you everyone for responding so quickly. In my second reply, I forgot to post the thread link.

This thread.

I have narrowed my search down to 2 cameras. The Canon EOS Digital Rebel XT (350D), and the Canon EOS 20D. I like the feel of the 20D much better than the feel of the Rebel. The Rebel feels so small in my hands and the build quality feels like a toy. However, the price of the 20D has me thinking I can deal with the feel of the Rebel.

Also, this will be my first Digital Camera ever. Currently I own a cheap Canon EOS Rebel G 35mm film SLR with a Sigma ZOOM 28-200mm Aspherical lense. I am what you all would probably c all a photography noobie. Yet I do not want to buy a cheap camera and then have to upgrade in the near future. I'd much rather buy good DSLR from the beginning and work with that for a long while. My photoshop skills are limited but I am pretty tech savvy and learn quickly.

Does anyone have any experience with the 20D and the Rebel XT?

[deckcadet]

Unfortunately, the tech tests on DP Review prove this to be wrong. Although the Nikon cameras do a good job, Canon and CMOS are the low-noise champs.

We could debate this until we're blue in the face, but I'll leave it with the fact that the Nikon D2Hs in the tests conducted by a german photography magazine got the best noise control rating.

Anyways, Michael, there's a lot to be said for the feel and character of the noise and the images as a whole. The CMOS 'advantage' is simply canon's on-chip NR. Like Phil Askey said, "clean signal, clean image" and it is a philosophy I would not mind seeing elsewhere, but I'm more than happy with the performance of my cameras.

The ball is in your court now, I'm just the Nikon expert...advise away :thumbsup:

[Tom_Proctor]

The D50 is almost what...$200 less than the Digital Rebel? Do you expect it to top the Digital Rebel? No. But for what it does, and how close it comes to producing such a great image comparable to the Digital Rebels, i'd say it's a bargain. And it fits in most peoples hand better.

[Sebastian]

Having owned both Nikon 6mp CCD cameras and Canons CMOS 6mp cameras, I can tell you from thousands of images shot that CMOS wipes the floor with CCD. There are many reasons to love Nikon, but low-noise images are not on that list.

Whatever Canon does with their tech, it consistently produces cleaner and more detailed images than what Nikon does with theirs. And some German article doesn't change that. ;)

One thing to consider, and a big reason for my switching, is low-light color handling. My D100s and the D2H (not sure about Hs) both exhibited a magenta shift in the blacks at higher ISOs. Since I shoot a lot of high ISOs, it meant a lot of post porcessing to get color right, which meant more work and less money. Sportsshooter.com had a lot of threads about people using IR filters to help reduce that effect on their D2H cameras. I have never heard of anything like this with competing cameras. For me, this alone was a huge timesaver and good reason to switch.

[Tom_Proctor]

Yeah, I just had a guy own me on some other forums talking about the rebel & d50 only because he makes movies worldwide such as the new world trade centers movie coming out soon.

Now remember that I was talking about the D30 from Canon. The nearest comparison to this camera from NIKON is going the be the more expensive Nikon D200 (which is supposed to be a more advanced model in the Nikon Range). Normally, CMOS chips are cheaper to make than CCD chips. In mobile phones, the CMOS chips are fairly poor quality. But Canon make their own CMOS chips and they are considered to be the finest imaging chips of their kind, exceeding CCD chips entirely. Canon's CMOS chips specifically out perform the CCD and rival sensor chips in the area of Noise Reduction, especially at low levels of light and longer exposures.


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Quote from a Canon acquaintance in response to my questions:
"...and this is NOT simply due to 'superior' or 'more' noise reduction during processing of the captured data (via Digic processor, for example). Canon actually reduces noise during INPUT (capture) using on-chip, per-pixel circuitry designed to reduce noise so they start out with the cleanest image possible, before it ever hits the processor. It's one of the pay-offs they've reaped by spending gobs of cash on developing CMOS technology in-house while others have chosen the path of the CCD and farmed alot of that work out to Sony. :-)"

Read about it here where I found a similar article whilst browsing earlier today: http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/D30/D30A4.HTM

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"On the other hand, tests (see Dpreview.com) have shown that the noise level of the EOS 5D (and the EOS 20D/30D) at high ISO settings is somewhat lower than that of the Nikon D200. The D200 is also around $300 more expensive than the EOS 30D"

Source: http://www.photo.net/equipment/canon..._vs_5D_vs_D200

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Canon D30 (from www.DPreview.com ) PROS:
# Excellent resolution, very good per-pixel sharpness
# Good tonal and color response, same as EOS 20D 'Parameter 1' in Standard PS
# Now with four metering modes, spot metering very welcome
# Trademark Canon CMOS noise free images, remain detailed even at high sensitivities
# About a third of a stop more sensitive than indicated
# Confidence to use camera at high sensitivities (ISO 1600, 3200)
# Excellent long exposure capability, no noticeable hot pixels at 30 seconds with NR off
# New Picture Styles make it easier to get 'ready to use' results straight from the camera
# Wide range of image parameter adjustment (-4 to +4 for most)
# Instant power on time, excellent operational speed, always feels responsive
# Five frames per second continuous shooting, excellent buffering, fast CF throughput
# Good nine point auto focus system, works well even in low light
# Selectable color space (sRGB / Adobe RGB)
# Supports both EF and smaller, lighter EF-S 'digital' lenses
# Excellent build, very robust, good ergonomics (although buttons a little small for gloves)
# Built as a Digital SLR from the ground up
# Proper RAW+JPEG with immediately selectable JPEG image size
# Much less of a 'dust problem' than CCD-based digital SLRs (less static? distance to LPF?)
# Excellent supplied software bundle, remote capture and good RAW conversion (DPP)
# Quick magnification up to 10x (perfect for checking focus), easier panning (joystick)
# Excellent battery life, light weight and small batteries (now more powerful)
# High pop-up flash, should make red-eye less of a problem
# E-TTL II flash metering, includes distance information from lens
# New large 2.5" LCD monitor
# Playback jump by 10, 100 images or by shot date
# USB 2.0 Hi-speed connectivity
# Orientation sensor
# Optional WFT-E1 wireless transmitter (802.11 b/g)
# Value for money

Nikon D200 (from www.Dpreview.com ) CONS
* Higher noise at ISO 1600 and 3200 than we would like, mostly in shadows
* High ISO noise reduction works but at the expense of detail
* Default sharpness is too mild, first impression to a new user may be negative
* Insufficient number of image parameter adjustments with little latitude
* Disappointing automatic white balance performance under artificial light
* Some cameras affected by vertical banding issues
* No RAW adjustment with supplied Picture Project, only simple conversion
* Nikon Capture should be included with all 'pro' and 'semi-pro' cameras
* (Still) Very poor memory management and performance from optional Nikon Capture

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So what we can deduce by this information is that Nikon's CCDs, even when used in their higher end cameras, produce visible levels of noise not see in the Canon models of similar or even lesser comparison units. This is because Canon build their own very advanced CMOS chips inhouse and they exceed anything available on the market by rival manufacturers when it comes to processing signals and noise. The Digital Imaging Core from Canon makes light work of converting the captured image signals to produce end results - which in turn are sought by the world's elite photographers and industry professionals.

This is why most news press photographers are seen touting Canon DSLRs and why sports Photographers prefer the Canon's although lens range plays a large part in the latter.