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  1. #1
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    considering digital-

    i am an amateur photographer and have shot slides for 40 years. largely ektachrome, epr and epp. using mainly agfa and konica 35mm camera's [with 50mm, 80-200mm, and 500mm mirror lenses]. i love the beauty of slides. recently i have taken my favorites, scanned them with a nikon ls-40 in ps 6.0 and burned them to cd-r's. as a whole, the scans are very good and i will be having 4x6 prints made of them and placed in an album. currently, i am planning on just taking prints from now on as the job of scanning/manipulating slides to go to print is too time consuming. after viewing the prints made from my slides, i find i am not satisfied with the "quality" when i do use print film [ even in using kodak royal gold 100] as compared to my prints from slides. i'll be using some fuji superia reala 100 soon and see how it compares. question-
    1- i know nothing about digital camera's. but are there digital camera's that would produce prints close to the "quality" i desire? if so, give me the models and price range.
    2- i would want something that has a fairly large optical zoom, one my wife could operate, not too large, and i don't know what else [i'm open for suggestions on megapixels and anything else].
    3- are there websites that owners give their reviews on different models/makes?
    4- also, on this site is their a "printer friendly" way to print various threads and printing that only?
    5- please advise- thank you.

    tramp

  2. #2
    Liz
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    Smile Good decision Tramp........

    Hi Tramp

    It's good to see you around. I'm surprised you're thinking about getting a digital camera (good surprise that is ;) ). I know how hard you've been working on getting everything together and in order. What a job! I never would have the patience you've had!

    I think it would be good to give us more information so you can make the best decision. The most important decision is whether you get a point & shoot or DSLR - digital SLR. The first issue is budget. How much are you able/willing to spend? This would be the deciding factor. Some digital P&S cameras with the features you might want (long zoom) could be expensive. If you have $900 to spend, you might want to get a DSLR. The other option would be to wait a couple more months (September) when it is rumored that Canon/Nikon and others may come out with less expensive DSLR's.

    Also, what kind of photography do you do most and what would you like to do?

    Any info you can post would help in this decision.

    Liz

  3. #3
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    thanks liz, it's good to hear from you.
    1- my main pictures any more are largely people/family photo's. plus some outdoor scenes largely of agriculture [tractors,livestock, fairs, old farmsteads and rural scenes].
    2- questions-
    a- what is the general price range/mega pixel range of each [digital p&s and dslr's]?
    b- define the differences of each [digital p&s and dslr's]. plus their advantages and disadvantages .
    c- what makes and models would produce a print that would "compare" to a print scanned from a slide as far as "visual" quality is concerned?
    d- price is no issue at this time as i'm just wanting to get an "overall" view/information on digital camera's.
    e- should i buy one someday i wouldn't want to be disappointed in its prints, having been "spoiled" by the quality of prints from slides.
    f- keep on being the "care giver" you are.
    g- thank you-

    tramp

  4. #4
    Liz
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    Cool Reviews on digital cameras for Tramp

    Tramp - I realized (3 days later) that I didn't give you the information about checking other people's reviews on digital cameras - it's on this site under "Reviews" link at the very top of the page.

    Link to Digital SLR reviews
    http://www.pcphotoreview.com/Profess...S_3127crx.aspx

    Link to Point & Shoot reviews
    http://www.pcphotoreview.com/pscCame...S_4337crx.aspx

    BTW, the P&S reviews are for 4 - 5 megapixels....if you are interested in more or less MP's - just go to Reviews > Digital Cameras > and pick out the ones you want to view.

    Liz

  5. #5
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    I think if you have been seriously shooting slides for most of the time, it is going to be hard to move away from that. With that being said, Fuji Reala is a very good film as it Fuji NPH 400 film as well, which is used by many wedding photographers for the reasons of faster film, little grain and good colour saturation.

    If you have been used to an SLR camera for so long, I can assure you that a point and shoot camera although able to take very good images might disappoint you to the level of more frustrations as well.

    Go Digital and get a medium range DSLR from either the Canon Digital Rebel, 10D range or the Nikon D70 or D100 and hopefully you have the glass to suit the camera of choice I don't know what camera you have been using.

    As a professional photographer said this evening in a show, it isn't just the camera that makes for a good shot, but the lens you buy. So make sure you buy a very good lens.

    This advice from him, I think is very sound advice and he makes a very good living around the world taking photos, just can't remember the name at present.

    Best thing to do, is go in, feel the cameras that are available, try them out. If you can hire a camera for a day or weekend and try them out with the type of shots you take, well and good. The proof is in the pudding, so to speak and digital is a learning curve as it isn't just the taking of the shot, but also the post production as well.

    I personally, have a Canon EOS30 with canon lenses. I moved up from an old Pentax manual camera I have had for 30 years or so. Never really took a lot of photos, but never really understood the processes of photography either. So about 4 years ago now, I puchased the EOS30, spent a couple of thousand on lenses and started taking photos.

    Digital age, arrived and I got a Kodak camera which I was never really happy with and didn't use all that much. I then decided about 18 months ago to purchase a Canon G3, as I heard that was a good camera with most camera features and had a hot shoe for a flash, very important to me. I used it, shutter lag really got to me, after using my EOS30 and I suppose I got a little frustrated with my photography because of it. I also was able to use my lenses that were sitting in my photography bag.

    So just before Xmas last year I took the next step in evolution and purchased my Canon 10D and have been very happy with my photography now, learning is so much easier, with proper lenses, no shutter lag, and the ability to view the images after taking them and deciding, should I keep that, discard it and try again and change settings to make it a better shot hopefully.

    Really it is hard to advise anyone about what would suit them, as it is just the gut feeling you have when you select something and then you find out you made either a correct or not so correct judgement call.

    I hope that helps in some way to guide you.

  6. #6
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    thanks peter. your reply is appreciated. my gear is-
    konica ft-1 w/50mm konica 1.8 lense
    tamron 80-200mm 3.8 zoom
    tokina 35-105mm 3.5-4.3 mm zoom
    tamron sp 500mm 8.0 mirror lense [used very little] mostly on sunrise/sunsets.
    sunpak 422d flash
    yaschica t-4 super 35mm 3.5 p&s
    when you talk about glass i assume you mean the "quality" of the lense glass itself? questions [always questions] -
    1- does the larger amount/size of "glass" in a 50mm [and larger] lenses necessarily result in a "visually" better quality print as compared to the smaller glass/lense in a 35mm p&s [digital or non-digital]?
    2- you mentioned it may be hard for me to move away from slides. why?
    3- what "is" the learning curve you referred to in digital? explain.
    4- you spoke of "post production". are you saying that even digital photos have to be run thru ps to "optimize" [just as slides do]?
    5- do all digital p&s have shutter lag [like my yashica does]? do the dslr's have shutter lag?
    6- i had always assumed since sony digital camera's had zeiss lenses that their print quality should be excellent. how does one find out which digital camera's have good enough lenses for "excellent" prints
    7- will my current old 35mm lenses fit on to the current dslr"s? is a "mount' required?
    8- currently i just don't know enough about all the digital p&s/dslr"s brands/models to get it narrowed to choosing "one" out of a possible half dozen.
    9- my end desire [in whatever digital camera i choose} is excellent print quality.
    10- please advise-

    tramp

  7. #7
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    Tramp I don't know the answers to a few of your questions and hopefully someone like Charles Hess or those with greater knowledge of the gear you have will chime in with some answers as well.

    I found with compact Digital Cameras I have used, the lag was significant to frustrate me. Certainly the image quality I have printed up to A4 size print have been more than acceptable to me, and that is printing them myself on my printer.

    Yes Zeiss lenses are considered top notch lenses, but that doesn't mean they will give you the best image. With Digital, the beauty of it is, you can see the image immediately and decide hopefully correctly at the time whether to take a new image or keep the one you have taken.

    I haven't found any lag problems with the Canon 10D I have, compared to the lag of the Canon G3 (which actually might suit your needs as it has complete camera controls like a normal camera which attacted me to that camera in the first place, as well as having a hotshoe for external flash).

    What I meant about moving from slide to digital, the look is different and that might need some adjustment on your part. I haven't used slide film myself in probably over 30 years as I never could quite get the hang of it, but then I grew up using a Box Browne Kodak camera and was a bit of hit and miss. I have stuck with mostly straight colour everyday film until about 2 1/2 years ago and started using mainly Fuji Reala 100 film and Fuji NPH 400 film. Now I have digital with the 10D, film is right on the back shelf for me, though I still have my film cameras.

    To me, probably the lens you spoke of, the 50mm f/1.8 is your fastest lens, the others are slow consumer type lenses.

    With quality glass I am speaking along the lines of Canon "L" class lenses, although there are some of thier consumer glass that can come close to the "L" class of lenses, like the Canon 28-135 f/3.5-5.6 Image Stabalising Lens.

    Better glass will/should result in better quality images, but that is subject to the proficiency of the operator as well, as it always has.

    If you want excellent print quality you need to get the right tools, and to me that means something similar to a normal SLR camera, like a 10D, Nikon D70 or D100 as a starting point. What is your budget, I haven't seen that from memory of this thread, which might help with guidence as well. There are Digital Leica Cameras that would be a good choice as well, again we are talking some $$$$'s there as well.

    Yes there are steps within Photoshop that need to be done with digital images, just like when you scan images from slides into PS as well. Getting the White Balance correct as well, is another issue that needs addressing, just like when getting the balance correct in slide film, and normal films as well, sometimes corrected in the Dark Room. So think of PS as your digital Dark Room.

    Don't rush into getting a camera until you have read a reasonable amount of reviews, ask questions here, even go to other places like http://www.dpreview.com, which has a lot of info and reviews of equipment, although sometimes the comments of people can be a little off putting as well.

    It is a hard decision to make, but seeing you are in the US, you have more avenues to get things, play with them, and return if not satisfied, something we don't totally have control over here in Australia.

  8. #8
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    thanks again,peter. your perpective once more is appreciated.
    tomorrow i'm going to a "tractor pull" at henry, illinios. this is in north central illinois at a small rural town along the illinios river. i'll be taking my tamron 80-200mm zoom. also i'm trying out one of my neighbors first digital camera. a fuji 2600 zoom [2.0 megapixel]. he has a new digital fuji s- 5000. this will be my time ever handling a digital. he offered to let me use it as long as i wnted, so i thought that would be a good way initially to get some familiarization with control,etc.
    i would assume you have tractor pulls in your country. in case you are not familiar, they are tractors of all ages usually owned by farmers whose hobby is competing against one another in pulling a weighted sled. there are various weight classes in both the antique pulls and newer tractor pulls. some of the newer/heavier weght classes are very competative, with high powered engined. i haven't seen any in recent years, but 20 years ago some farmers had world war 2 allison v-12 aircraft engines mounted in their tractors. also, some may be two or three 450 cubic inch v-8 engines mounted in a row. many of these farmers are really ingenious in there mechanical ability.
    anyway, it's another event that makes for good photography.
    btw. i was 11 years old when pearl harbor came along. world war 2 had a big impact on me and i've got an office full of non-fiction books on it. many are pow /holocaust/russian prison camp survivors memoirs. i've picked up books on that time period when my wife and went to russia/china/singapore/germany/england and israel. we've always wanted to come to australia, but at our ages [73/70] it's becoming more remote. i'd like to see what memoirs your country has on australian pow held by the japanese.
    i see you are a nurse. i'm a retired farmer. my wife is a retired rn and she worked for 20 years in a state hospital with the mentally ill/mentally retarded. her favorite nursing is with the mentally retarded.she says they are some of the most loveable people she knows.
    God go with you and your family, peter. hopefully, we'll dialogue more another day.

    tramp

  9. #9
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    Never a problem to supply info to you Tramp, and at your age, you seem to be coping with it pretty well, not that you are that old, only a spritly 23 years difference in our ages, but I would say, probably similar values, compared to the youngsters of today.

    Australia is a different place, compared with probably most other coutries around the world, not that I have been to any of them, not really a traveller.

    We have our Deserts, Coast Lines, where probably 80% of the population live, Rain Forests up the far north of Australia, down to Tall Timber areas of Tasmania and parts of Southern Western Australia.

    Florida is probably the equivalent to us of South East Queensland, which is about 13 hours north of where I live by fast car.

    It is hard to describe Australia as it changes depending on where you are located and can change suddenly as well.

    Most people that I have conversed with describe Australia as a mixture of many different countries and that I think would be because of our diverse culture that we have, pretty much like in America as well I would think too, but not the same with nationalities like Jamacia, Mexico, Columbia etc, which haven't seemed to like coming over here to Australia as it is considered at the ends of the Earth by some.

    Sydney, most likely is something like San Francisco maybe, with a bit of New York and probably Boston look about it, that is probably the only way I can describe it to people, but it is a sometimes pretty and sometimes ugly place to live. The harbour is considered by so many I have talked to as the prettiest place in the world, but that is a subjective thing isn't it.

    Living in Sydney, getting out the country areas is a long trip now, as the produce areas shrink further and further into the west as Sydney grows and grows more and more up and down and out from the coast. It won't be long before the travelling time from the coast to the edge of Sydney will take probably 4 hours by car, the way it is growing outwards, much like a circle but with one side missing.

    I don't think we have Tractor Pulls here in Australia, they seem to do things a little different in the country, more like Camel Races, Rodeo related things and car racing which is big here. Being and Island nation, we seem to be very much into sports here, with Soccer becoming one of the biggest sports, considering the amount of other types of football played here, although not your Gridiron type of game, more a passing, running and kicking game.

    I think if your friend will allow you to use the digital camera for a while that will be great, and allow you to see and feel the difference that there is with digital not just camera wise, but image wise as well.

    At 73, it is interesting that you are embracing this change, but I haven't any problem helping you if I can at it.

    One the POW side of things, I had the opportunity to meet and look after many an ex-serviceman and woman in my nursing times and early childhood and the thing I found with them, was the fact they didn't talk about their experiences very much at all. I once spent some holidays with an ex POW of Changi Prison and he never talked about the horrors that happened to him, I didn't know till a lot later in life that he was an ex prisoner, I knew about the wars, both my parents were born in 1913, so I heard lots of stories about those times as a young child, but not when a young man.

    I joined the armed services here in Australia in the early 70's for a time, around the middle to end of the Vietnam War, but am not sure how I would have coped with the whole war experience at all. Now on reflection, I don't think I would have done well at it, as I think there are those that can and those that are unable to, and I don't see that as a failing. Heros are born heros, you don't just become one, they are there in all walks of life and appear when needed, just because they can. Often in reflection, people say, hey, they have always been that type of person, not a hero, but just that type of person. I'm sure you will know what I mean.

    You wife obviously is made of the right stuff, because it takes a special kind of person to Nurse, especially mentally ill/retarded people, something I couldn't get a strong desire to do. My introduction to the afflicted scared the hell out of me, when I was introduced to the criminally insane ward in one of our major psychiatric centres in Sydney during my nursing training in 1976. I could only spend 1 day at that place and asked to return to the hospital I was training at. My wife has worked in that area, but she found it a totally different experience.

    I found with my nursing I had an interest more with people suffering from heart disease, renal problems and also with assisting in surgery as my areas, my last position was actually in the Major Repatriation Hospital Operating Theatres not far from where I live, which has now moved over to be a major general hospital, as the verterans deminish in numbers.

    I hope you have a great time with the tractor pulling competition, you get some great pictures and enjoy life.

    To both of you, with kind regards,

    Peter, Jossie, Norel and Jorgia.

  10. #10
    nature/wildlife co-moderator paulnj's Avatar
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    pete.........

    I must say..

    BOTH you and tramp are GREAT guys!!!! I have always loved reading TRAMP's post!

    In the HOURS we have talked, I never knew how vast your vocabulary was, nor how genuinely KIND you are though I knew you were VERY KIND(now you are VERY VERY VERY KIND in my eyes)

    TRAMP the exposure of digital is very much like E-6 film in my opinion. I shot 95% slide film for years(4-10 rolls a week on average) and found the exposure to be EXACTLY like slides when I switched to digital. I shoot my DSLR just like I would a film camera with slide film ;) but, in RAW you can get more "latitude" so to speak

    editing after the fact(PS6, RAW editing software) has been and still is my weakness , just as it was when scanning slides. I find I can do 10 files from digital in the time it took to SCAN/ EDIT one slide though

    BOTH OF YOU and YOURS..

    have a GREAT DAY!!!!

    Paul

    BTW...... tractor pulls are GREAT!!!!
    Last edited by paulnj; 07-17-2004 at 08:32 AM. Reason: forgot a few words...stupid me ;)
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  11. #11
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    thanks, paul/peter, for what you both passed on. if we keep this up we'll have the beginning of a relationship here [i think it's already begun]. which is great.people can be interesting.
    i took my friends fuji 2600, 2.0mp, 3x zoom digital camera to the tractor pull last saturday. along with my konica ft-1slr and 80-200, 3.8 tamron zoom lense [tamrons have darn good lenses]. for the first time i used fuji superia reala 100 and still have some shots left on the roll before i can get it developed. the fuji 2600 was "different" to use. i set it on it's highest resolution and the shots look pretty good on my computer screen. today i'll have them printed at walgreens [on their fuji frontier photo system] then scrutinize them. the tractor pull was extremely noisy and i couldn't really "sense" if the shutter release had gone off. to date that's been my main complaint.
    the tractor pull was held in conjunction with a county fair. where there was livestock/poultry judging going on. other entries that were judged were canned goods [vegetables, preserves, fruit], quilts, fresh flower arrangements,quilts, pies, cookies, and {would you believe} photography. i especially liked the photo's of a rodeo [bulldogging and being bucked off a bronco]. this tractor pull is one of the largest in the midwest and was televised by ESPN2. it was drama and power all the way. thoroughly exciting if you're into this type of thing.
    those that went with me were my 45 year old son, 8 year old grandson and ron & terri [married neighbors who are in their early 50's]. ron has a machine shop and met terri years ago out east at a uso her dad run [she was strictly a city girl, never having been exposed to rural farm life]. last year after i had been to a large tractor pull, i told terri, and she said ron had taken her to one when they were first married and that she would like to go again. by in large, tractor pulls are not high on the list with women, but not terri. she was so EXCITED when i invited her to go [bubbly and jumping up and down]. terri was this way during the pull and i was rewarded doubly by watching her reactions as well as the pull. guess what? talk about photography! she took 200 and some digital pictures of it.
    thanks for passing on what you did about your experience with ex-pow's. we did visit the island at singapore where changi prison was.
    in galesburg, illinois [ten miles away] i've become acquainted with a man who is 91 years old, who works four mornings a week at a local police station entering data into a computer [named henry]. he was born in germany and was in the medical corp at stalingrad during ww2, where the russians surrounded them and took 90,000 german prisoners. they all were sent to siberia and only 10% survived. he spent seven years there before being returned to germany. his statement concerning those seven years was that "he's seen it all". he ultimately made it to america by sending a letter to then president eisenhower's wife [mamie] requesting to come to the united states. he never married, was a chef, and is a wonderful "gentleman". his attitude is superb and displays no bitterness [outwardly] in what life has dealt him.
    thanks for your family names paul. my wife will be interested in your comments.
    peter - God go with both you and paul
    this "site" will run me off if i make this any longer.
    it's been fun.

    tramp

  12. #12
    nature/wildlife co-moderator paulnj's Avatar
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    family names??????

    I don't remember , but hear they are.... Almendinger( or OLMENDINGER, ALLMENDINGER....), Hamel, Mc Donald, Fitzgerald are the last 2 generations
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