300D vs. 10D (reply from old board thread)

[Hatrick]

Hi all, I'm a newbie here... please be gentle! ;-)
I just finished reading this thread from your old board: http://forums.consumerreview.com/crf...TIh.0@.efe2906
All of the points made in the thread are valid points, and I am glad I found the thread, as I am wrestling with the same decision right now. Yeah, $500 more dollars isn't ideal, but my biggest concern is with the action photography. Darkman said "If you do any action photography, this isn't the camera for you." I believe he was refering to the 300D. Well, I do a TON of action photography. I photograph soccer & track events quite a bit. So, does it really make that much difference? The $500 aside, I want to get the camera that will do the sports photography the best. I have a Canon Rebel G, two Canon lenses, and have used the D30 and D60 before (not too extensively, but enough to know I like them!) which is why I want to buy a Canon. I don't have any room in my budget for the 1D, so the 10D has to be my upward limit.

Any help and/or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

[JDub]

I think the problem that some people have had on the 300D is the sports mode that locks in the AI-Servo stuff. I've seen some amazing action shots taken with the 300D, so I would disagree. I probably won't be using the sports mode, likely just shoot in manual.

The image quality between the 10D and the 300D is in my opinion negligible, so it would come down to if the features on the 10D are worth the $500. For me they weren't. I got a 300D with the kit lens and I'm about to get a Canon 70-200 f4 L lens. The camera and two lenses for the price of just the 10D.

[Photo-John]

The AI-Servo mode is the issue with the Digital Rebel. You might want to post something on the Sports forum too, since you're interested in action photography. Personally, I always shoot in manual, and my camera is always set to AI-Servo. But that's not the way everyone shoots. And I know I could take good pictures with the Rebel, regardless of the AI-Servo issue. I just couldn't take exactly the same kind of pictures as I take with the cameras I own now.

Image quality isn't an issue. The image quality should be exactly the same as the the 10D as they both use the same sensor. If anything, the Digital Rebel might be better, since it's newer. But the 10D doesn't have any "sabotaged" features like the Digital Rebel's AI-Servo AF. And kafin8ed and I both use the 10D to photograph mountain biking, so it's definitely capable.

The question you need to ask yourself is how much you need the AI-Servo autofocus mode in exposure modes besides the sports mode. Do you use the "manual" exposure modes like aperture priority, shutter priority, or manual? And do you use the AI-Servo autofocus, or do you always prefocus? And what kind of action do you shoot? Basically, will the camera do the job you need it to do? And if not, is the $400-500 extra you'll spend for a 10D, money well-spent?

[JDub]

The AI-Servo mode is the issue with the Digital Rebel. You might want to post something on the Sports forum too, since you're interested in action photography. Personally, I always shoot in manual, and my camera is always set to AI-Servo. But that's not the way everyone shoots. And I know I could take good pictures with the Rebel, regardless of the AI-Servo issue. I just couldn't take exactly the same kind of pictures as I take with the cameras I own now.

Huh...I am surprised that you shoot with the AI-Servo mode on. I guess just because it is funky on the Rebel I figured it wasn't that much better on the 10D. Obviously Canon had to do some things to "limit" the Digital Rebel otherwise they would never sell another 10D. I haven't had the chance to take many action photos with my 300D, waiting on a new lens.

What kinds of pictures does the AI-Servo help you take? I'm just curious as I shoot 80% action/mountain bike/adventure race type photos, so maybe I should consider the 10D if the AI-Servo is all that.

[Photo-John]

Well, it probably depends on the camera. But with the EOS 3, the 10D, and the 1D, with the right lenses, AI-Servo allows you to lock right onto your subject and track super accurately. If I know I can keep my subject on the middle focus point and I'm not sure exactly where I want to take the picture, AI-Servo is awesome. It might not work as well with the Digital Rebel, though. I used to have an A2E and I noticed a big improvement when I upgraded to an EOS 3. So the camera body definitely makes a difference.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure I shot this photo with AI-Servo on. If I wasn't using AI-Servo, it was still on and I had my thumb on the CF button to lock the focus. It was taken with the EOS 1D and 70-200 f/2.8L.

[JDub]

Well, it probably depends on the camera. But with the EOS 3, the 10D, and the 1D, with the right lenses, AI-Servo allows you to lock right onto your subject and track super accurately. If I know I can keep my subject on the middle focus point and I'm not sure exactly where I want to take the picture, AI-Servo is awesome. It might not work as well with the Digital Rebel, though. I used to have an A2E and I noticed a big improvement when I upgraded to an EOS 3. So the camera body definitely makes a difference.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure I shot this photo with AI-Servo on. If I wasn't using AI-Servo, it was still on and I had my thumb on the CF button to lock the focus. It was taken with the EOS 1D and 70-200 f/2.8L.

yeah, I think the body certainly matters, no arguments here. I just didn't figure that the good photogs (like you) shot with it, but I just didn't know the AI-Servo was useful in these type of shots.

I typically lock focus on a spot where the subject will be then shoot. If the AI-Servo helps you track, then maybe it is worth having. I'll know more about the restrictive AI-Servo on the 300D when I shoot some action with it. Should make for good findings either way.

Good stuff, thanks for the feedeback.

[Hatrick]

Thanks for the help. I really appreciate it. I am definitely leaning more toward the 10D, and mainly because of the Al Servo. I use Al Servo for most of the pictures I take. The attached pictures are ones I shot with Al Servo using my Canon Rebel G and a 70-300 f 4.0 - 5.6 lens. The money I've spent on developing alone will more than make up the difference of $500 for the 10D. I'll probably have it by the end of the week!

One more thing... John - you said

But with the EOS 3, the 10D, and the 1D, with the right lenses, AI-Servo allows you to lock right onto your subject and track super accurately.

I have two lenses right now, the 35-80 that came with my Rebel G, and the 70-300 (mentioned above, made by Quantaray) that an ex bought for me. Both seem to work really well. However, I'm thinking that with the 10D, the quality of those less expensive lenses will be more apparent. What do you suggest I look for in a lens that will be good replacements for the ones I currently own that will work well with the Al Servo? Should I stick with Canon lenses or will the other brands lenses work as well.

Thanks again for your help!

[darkman]

One more thing... John - you said I have two lenses right now, the 35-80 that came with my Rebel G, and the 70-300 (mentioned above, made by Quantaray) that an ex bought for me. Both seem to work really well. However, I'm thinking that with the 10D, the quality of those less expensive lenses will be more apparent. What do you suggest I look for in a lens that will be good replacements for the ones I currently own that will work well with the Al Servo? Should I stick with Canon lenses or will the other brands lenses work as well.


John pretty much summed up what I was trying to say. Just to add a little though, when you use ai-servo with the Drebel in sports mode the camera is still in "auto" mode. Thus it chooses the shutter speed and aperture for you. Whereas, with the 10d on up, you can shoot in any manual mode with ai-servo. This allows you to have complete control doing things like freezing/blurring the action, blurring the background etc.

Personally, if you're shooting a lot of action, I would consider only USM(or other brands eq. like sigma's hsm) and FAST f/2.8 lenses. USM focuses fast and smoothely. A fast lens will also improve AF. Especially in low light. I shoot often in three gyms locally and can defianatelly tell the difference in keepers I get based on lighting conditions. Your eyes are amazing, but the camera doesn't lie! There is a 2 stop difference between the 3 gyms.

Ultimately, if action/sports was my primary intererest I would consider a 1d. It's definately desinged bottom up for action. It does cost plenty more, but worth it if it meets your needs.

Mike