5D mark II

[rongarrett]

Just read that the 5D Mark II is shipping from some of the large retailers next week. Anyone here have one on order? I have resisted ordering a new camera this year. The Mark II is my last hurdle. Please post here with your consensus of how the new camera works for you. More interested in image quality than anything else. Canon has made some fantastic claims for this camera. If all are true I won't be able to skip this year after all?

[SmartWombat]

I have not looked at the image quality.
But talking to someone who shoots video professionally he's almost impressed, but thinks the Nikon D90 is a bit of a dud.
I'd love to have one for a while to use, but no chance of affording one

[SmartWombat]

Take a look here and see:
http://www.vimeo.com/2327058

These shots don't show:
the lack of mic input on the D90
the rolling shutter while panning on the D90

The subjects seem to flatter the performance of the cameras

However there is a flame war with almost a religious fervour over the lack of a "cinematic" 24fps mode on the Canon which makes some people rule it out in favour of the Nikon (despite its failings in sound and IQ) just because the Nikon is 24fps and the Canon 30.

[NoKnees]

I must say, as much as I don't want to say video in an SLR is a good thing and all that, the Canon really impresses me. The Nikon's video looks kind of how I expected, but the Canon IQ seems to jump out, especially at night.

Anyway, we know still and video are merging closer with every round of new camera gear, as the RED cameras are showing... To me, this round goes to the Canon...

As for the 24fps vs 30, tricky subject I suppose. For the average user, I don't think it's an issue.

[SmartWombat]

I agree on the 24/30 issue - but this is a video forum and I thought it might interest (or provoke) the above-average users

Anything from RED is dramatically overpriced for most of us, and their delivery on promises in the past has been lacking. Not in terms of quality, but on delivering the product at all.
RED seem to have pre-announced the Scarlet by at least 12 months, suggesting delivery maybe next September - and then only to existing RED ONE customers.

It may kick both Nikon and Canon to produce the next generation DVSLR to fill in the gap.
Maybe a 1DSVmkIII with "professional" features like manual exposure controls and 24/25/30/50/60 rates and even timelapse/stop motion.

[rongarrett]

I've just seen my first images from a 5D Mark II. They were a night scene. Although the image was sharp, there was chromatic noise visable in the shadows. The image was shot at ISO 1000, lens 50 mm F 1.4. The photographer remarked that his old 5D would not focus on these shots at all.

Mixed thoughts?

[SmartWombat]

Sounds like the AF is improved over the original 5D then, like the 1DmkIII over the 1DmkII.
Since the 5DmkII has got the same processor, I'd expect similar performance, but not as fast. Doesn't the 5DmkII have one processor and the 1DmkIII two?

I would always expect chroma noise in the shadows, you can't make it go away, but less noticeable with proper exposure.
I'm pleasantly surprised I got anything usable with my 1DSmkII at 1600 ISO, but looks like I'm getting a company magazine spread. I would have thought the new 5D has caught up with (or passed) the 1DSmkII performance.

[rongarrett]

Just read a short review of the video part of the 5D mark II. In a nutshell it flamed Canons claims for the video function.

I was disappointed that nothing was mentioned about the cameras still image quality or ISO performance.

[SmartWombat]

I read a review online recently of the video too - I think that review is terrible.


A lot of the negative comments are because the videographers expect it to be like a video camera - aargh look guys ... it's a still camera !
Of course it doesn't have a shoulder rest like the pro lead parrot cameras, or a handle, or a tilting viewfinder eyepiece, or a matte, or remote focus knobs.
It's a still camera.
There is a solution - go buy a redrock mivcro rig for it. It completely hides your DSLR in a maze of rods and adapters to make it handle like a cinema camera.

I've seen good videos shot with the 5DmkII, but they were someone who knows video, and who decided straight off to use Nikon all manual lenses with an adapter.
That gives exposure control, and precise focus (no USM sloppiness) and they seem to be quite good lenses
The key thing is that it's a totally manual solution - I'm sure manual EF lenses would give the same control.
I don't think mom or pop who buys one will get the same results videoing the christmas party.

Having to press the AF button to make it autofocus doesn't seem to me to be a huge problem. Particularly since serious users will probably fit a follow focus rig and work exclusively in manual focus.

Of course the AF noise is picked up by the in-camera mic.
That's why Canon put in the mic input socket.
Or if you're doing it more professionally, the audio will be recorded using external mic on an audio recorder and then synchronised in post.

The point about the lack of post-production tools is valid.
But then if you're using RED ONE cameras the tools for that are only just emerging too - and that is a pro camera costing 20x the 5DmkII price.

The tools will need to improve, because the people who buy a camera and just take an 8G card full of two continuous 12 minute streams of data are going to have to edit it.
Because of that, the 4G file limit (about 12 minutes) doesn't seem a problem to me.
Have you ever seen a film with a scene that long in a single shot ?

I foresee a lot of bad home movies made with the 5DmkII just as there were a host of bad home movies on 8mm. It's a different skill set. Sure, those users might complain about the 12 minute/4G limit. But they need help, to improve their video making.

I have a suspicion that the time limit may be linked to sensor heating in continuous operation, and the effect on focus if the metal mount expands enough, or the effect on image quality. The RED one has sophisticated stuff to deal with that.

Of course, you're going to need a tripod. Not your usual camera tripod either, because it's likely to need a different kind of head on it. Unless you swap heads.
If you're not using a tripod then you'll need something better than an IS lens, I think. Those lenses are optimised for still photography, after all.
I expect sales of small steadicam rigs and gyros to increase, once people realise that making a smooth video is far different from holding a camera steady for 1/60 second and then relaxing for the next shot.
Check this out: http://blog.vincentlaforet.com/2008/...age-steadicam/


I think our video forum could become quite active, with users of the Nikon D90 and the Canon 5DmkII looking for advice.

[rongarrett]

Thanks Wombat for that imformative summary. I know nothing about video. I think the issue here is Canons hype that has most perspective buyers believing the video function will just be a matter of pushing the "video" button and recording HD video.

If all the things you mention need to take place for me to use the video function I prolly won't ever do so. I think may may be disappointed.

I still want to know how it fares as a still camera.

[rongarrett]

First reports are dwindling in slowly for the 5D Mark II, at least concerning the cameras still image capability. The video portion of the camera is being discussed rather hot and heavy in several places. Ran accross a remark by one pro reviewer that says it outperforms both the D3 and the D700 in low light capability. Course there were no tests done, just an opinion.

I really wish some of you that have this camera would give your opinions too, as relates to the cameras performance with still imagery.

Canon may very well have another winner here that will best the 5D's record?

[rongarrett]

Now there are reports of black blotchy spots under certain image conditions. Haven't found Canons answer yet?

[SmartWombat]

Firmware probably.
Particularly if it shows in JPEG images rather than in raw.

ONe customer confirmed that: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=30357355

[draymorton]

High ISO performance is disappointing, IMO. Especially after what they built this camera up to be. Anyone else have banding issues that start at 1600 and render 6400 all but completely unusable? (One reviewer said that 6400 on the II was equivalent to 800 on the I. Bull****.)

And as far as I could see, it definitely does not trump the D3/D700 at high ISOs. Wishful thinking on the part of whoever made that remark.

I don't mean to be negative, but the main reason i bought this camera was because of its much-vaunted low-light performance. Maybe I got a lemon?

[SmartWombat]

Or you're under-exposing it - I had similar problems with the 1DmkIIN.

Under-exposing and then lightening in post, the artefacts show up.
I was shooting indoors, metering on the 1DmkIIN in low light with spotlights on the stage was off, and then when they started walking about on stage instead of staying on their marks (it was a company presentation) I got shots in and out of the light.

Trying to adjust the under exposed shots showed up banding.
But properly exposed shots were fine.

I expect the 5DmkII will be about as good as my 1DmkII bodies.

[draymorton]

Wombat, I hear what you're saying. But it seems to me that, even in well-exposed shots, I can make out noise and color banding at 1600 and see it clearly from 3200 on up - and right on the LCD! So we're talking before the image even has a chance to be dropped into DPP or ACR. And I haven't really been making a habit of lightening things up in post, as I realize that that invites noise to the party.

And regarding Canon's in-camera NR... as has been my experience, either turn it on and lose detail (even on the "low" setting) or turn it off and put up with blizzards and rainbows (i.e. noise and banding).

I sincerely hope that it's something I'm doing wrong and not the camera itself (either the body I own or the model in general). I'll try and post some examples to give you a clearer idea of what I'm complaining about.

As far as it being as good as the IDmkIIs... I've never shot with that particular body, but I can tell you that I see very little improvement in noise management from the IDsmkII, which I've used several times. From what I've seen thus far, 1600 on the 5dII seems to be equivalent to maybe 800 on the 1dsII.

That said, 100-320 on the 5dII is, under the right conditions, gorgeous. Noticably better than the 1dsmkII at 100-320. Scenes on the new camera can sometimes have an almost 3-D quality to them, which I never noticed on the 1dsII or my old 5D.

[rongarrett]

I'll ask the same question again I have asked elsewhere. Is there too much competition? Are the manufacturers rushing projects to market trying to trump the competition without proper testing and refining?

I sure hope that is the case and not just a case of sloppy manufacturing.

I wonder if jobs are being lost at Canon because of all there snafus?

One thing I have made up my mind to and that is to skip any new cameras this year. I'll be looking at adding a lens or two only.

[SmartWombat]

I have given up on using the LCD on the 1D bodies for reviewing shots.
It's just not good enough, in resolution, contrast, or colour fidelity.
I have a suspicion it uses the embedded low resolution preview jpeg from the raw shots, and so can't show the full quality of the raw image.
I just keep shooting, trust the histogram to guide my exposure, and review on a calibrated monitor afterwards.

I'm not a fan of in-camera NR.
Most people have a desktop computer with more power than the camera's processor.
The NR algorithms in your computer software can be improved by upgrades, or by trying different programs. Which I think is better than relying on the camera.
I shoot raw and then adjust in lightroom, though I don't apply noise reduction there for the SLR chots. I do use it on the G9 images though. That camera stays permanently on 80 ISO for usable images.

I think my 1DSmkII is a fraction better the the 1DmkIIN, but I would use either up to 1600.
I'd be interested in your opinion on the photos in this post shot at 1600 with the 50mm f/1.8 stopped down a little Shooting a "gig" indoors question
Maybe the small image size doesn't show the banding?

From what I've seen thus far, 1600 on the 5dII seems to be equivalent to maybe 800 on the 1dsII.

I agree the new sensors look really good at low ISO, and probably about 1 stop better than my old cameras at higher ISO. But not amazingly better, 1 stop is only twice as good


But comparing the AF I don't think on the 5D (including mkII) is as good as on my 1D bodies for motorsport - which is a lot of what I do. Landscapes though, I'd consider either of the 5D.

[rongarrett]

Wombat, have you tested for the "black dots" syndrome on your 5D Mark II? Ken rockwell says this defect is "unimportant". Excuse me? I pay $2700.00 for a semi pro camera and am expected to accept it with the defect? Unbelieveable.

I just got a new custom computer six month ago. It is much faster than my old one and I wanted the extra speed especially when uploading 500 or so images at one time. worked very well for a time. Then the card reader started locking up and making uploading large amounts of images a pain. Should I have just accepted that situation? Not on your life. Computer tech came and tried a couple more readers until we found one that worked perfectly.

I expect more from my camera company then Canon is delivering here lately. Is this a trend?