What do you mean I didn't take the pictures?

[fx101]

Last week I took a ton of pictures a few of which turned out spectacular and I decided to edit and print. Well, I have printed at pro labs for many years now (and I recently posted a thread in the film photography forum on digital c-tone printing for film users (or digital)) ; however, I have never had an experience like the one I had on Sunday. I edited a few of my pictures and had them sharpened for inkjet printing in Nik Sharpener pro. The images were taken with my D200 and a Sigma 15-30mm lens. I was paranoid about leaving my $250 16GB CF card with the guy at Walmart so I decided to burn my image files onto a DVD. I just wanted to make a few prints to see how they would look (I wasn't proofing anything in particular) so I wanted to get 15 8x10's made because they were pretty cheap. I hand the guy the disc and he says OK we'll get these to you in a little over an hour. I said I would pick them up later that afternoon and he says that's ok they'll take down my name and phone number and I could pick them up whenever. So I went and did some errands
(this was the morning by the way) and so forth. I had company at home when I got a phone call from Walmart at 4:00 o' clock. "Sir. There's a problem and we can't print your pictures right now. We need you to come to the store if you want your pictures to be printed." I ask "ok Why?" and he says "I'm not particularly certain but you need to come to the store." Perplexed as I was I left some family members to attend our friends while I was gone. When I get to the photo center I ask what the problem is. A lady comes over and she says "you didn't take these pictures so we can't print them." I responded by logically asking "What do you mean I didn't take the pictures?" Apparently, she said that the lighting and colors looked professional and that it was a crime to print copyrighted images and whatnot. So then I clearly stated that I was the photographer and flashed my license. She didn't believe me . So... I go to the car and grab my camera and show it to her (a D200). She said it was a nice camera but it proved nothing. I even had the RAW files on the card but she said that I could have loaded them on there so it did not prove I had taken them and she had the right to deny printing services . It was probably the most arrogant comment I have heard in days-- who does she think she was implying I was not professional enough to take those pictures? And who does she think she was challenging the validity of RAW files? How do you illegally obtain raw files? You don't. So I ended up having a long fight with her and her manager. She ended up calling the district walmart office and basically they told her I could print out a waiver that I would sign to affirm that I was the photographer. I guess the photographers in the area must be pretty bad if they haven't seen nice bokeh before . So if you ever print at walmart carry a disclosure with you.

[almo]

Last week I took a ton of pictures a few of which turned out spectacular and I decided to edit and print. Well, I have printed at pro labs for many years now (and I recently posted a thread in the film photography forum on digital c-tone printing for film users (or digital)) ; however, I have never had an experience like the one I had on Sunday. I edited a few of my pictures and had them sharpened for inkjet printing in Nik Sharpener pro. The images were taken with my D200 and a Sigma 15-30mm lens. I was paranoid about leaving my $250 16GB CF card with the guy at Walmart so I decided to burn my image files onto a DVD. I just wanted to make a few prints to see how they would look (I wasn't proofing anything in particular) so I wanted to get 15 8x10's made because they were pretty cheap. I hand the guy the disc and he says OK we'll get these to you in a little over an hour. I said I would pick them up later that afternoon and he says that's ok they'll take down my name and phone number and I could pick them up whenever. So I went and did some errands
(this was the morning by the way) and so forth. I had company at home when I got a phone call from Walmart at 4:00 o' clock. "Sir. There's a problem and we can't print your pictures right now. We need you to come to the store if you want your pictures to be printed." I ask "ok Why?" and he says "I'm not particularly certain but you need to come to the store." Perplexed as I was I left some family members to attend our friends while I was gone. When I get to the photo center I ask what the problem is. A lady comes over and she says "you didn't take these pictures so we can't print them." I responded by logically asking "What do you mean I didn't take the pictures?" Apparently, she said that the lighting and colors looked professional and that it was a crime to print copyrighted images and whatnot. So then I clearly stated that I was the photographer and flashed my license. She didn't believe me . So... I go to the car and grab my camera and show it to her (a D200). She said it was a nice camera but it proved nothing. I even had the RAW files on the card but she said that I could have loaded them on there so it did not prove I had taken them and she had the right to deny printing services . It was probably the most arrogant comment I have heard in days-- who does she think she was implying I was not professional enough to take those pictures? And who does she think she was challenging the validity of RAW files? How do you illegally obtain raw files? You don't. So I ended up having a long fight with her and her manager. She ended up calling the district walmart office and basically they told her I could print out a waiver that I would sign to affirm that I was the photographer. I guess the photographers in the area must be pretty bad if they haven't seen nice bokeh before . So if you ever print at walmart carry a disclosure with you.

I have been printing at wal-mart for years, and while I have heard of this almost as long as I have been using them, I have never encountered it. Now I am not one to toot my own horn, but some of the stuff I have printed certainly would apear professional when compared to the average image printed at wally world.

I must admit though, I have never carried the files in on a cd/dvd. I always use my WalmartWire account to upload the images directly to the wal-mart server, then I pick them up a few days later at my local store. Maybe the fact that I use that account sets me apart. Who knows.

Here are a few images I've had printed there...

[Old Timer]

Ask JS about it over the sports forum he had to bring legal action against Wal Mart for printing images of his with out his permission. He might be to blame. Just protecting those that are trying to make a living with their talent and a camera.

[gryphonslair99]

The entire problem I see in this situation boils down to one simple thing. - Walmart

They may be convenient, but they are the most troublesome company I have ever dealt with. After they refused to exchange a new shirt that my son received as a gift, still in the package, with the sales receipt, because they didn't carry that shirt at that store, my mom bought it in Kansas City, I have not set foot in one of their stores since.

Check your area for a good local printer. I have one that is on the way to work. The owner is excellent, and has been in the business long before digital. Her prices are very reasonable and the quality of the prints is outstanding. I can drop stuff off on the way to work and pick it up that evening on the way home.

[mn shutterbug]

Personally, I can't understand why anyone would go to Walmart for anything.

[Frog]

Someone else posted about this problem with another printer not too long ago. How does one prove the photos are theirs ?

[almo]

Someone else posted about this problem with another printer not too long ago. How does one prove the photos are theirs ?

Smith & Wesson

[Xia_Ke]

Yep, that just helps solidify my HATRED of Walmart :mad2: Frog, I think SmartWombat had a similar problem a couple weeks ago though I don't think it was Walmart.

Another reason to shoot film, they can't argue much if you have the original negatives...LOL

[almo]

...they can't argue much if you have the original negatives...LOL

You are talking about people that can't find the shoe section when they are standing in it. I wouldn't put that past them.

[Xia_Ke]

You are talking about people that can't find the shoe section when they are standing in it. I wouldn't put that past them.

ROTFL... Good point...LOL

[ken1953]

This issue comes up every so often and WalMart is stuck between a rock and a hard place. They are supposed to have waivers for pros to sign, but most of their photo personnel are improperly trained to handle the situation. The problem they don't understand is that "all" photographs, whether professional or amateur are copyrighted so they, by most of their logic, can't print any photographs unless they prove the photographer.
That being said, Walmart needs better training in their photo department and we as photographers need to be a little more understanding of their dilemma and try to educate them when we run into these individuals who haven't been trained, properly.

[almo]

This issue comes up every so often and WalMart is stuck between a rock and a hard place. They are supposed to have waivers for pros to sign, but most of their photo personnel are improperly trained to handle the situation. The problem they don't understand is that "all" photographs, whether professional or amateur are copyrighted so they, by most of their logic, can't print any photographs unless they prove the photographer.
That being said, Walmart needs better training in their photo department and we as photographers need to be a little more understanding of their dilemma and try to educate them when we run into these individuals who haven't been trained, properly.

I understand your point Ken, but we can not educate them in any real capacity. The reason for this is simple: They can not take our word for anything. It would have to come down from the corporation. That is where the fight must be waged. I myself have tried having this discussion with workers at several big chain photo labs and they all say the same thing, well that is what I was told. End of discussion. They won't hear anymore. And who can blame them really? They don't care if you get your prints. They care if they have a job to go to the next morning.

Look, there are plenty of fish in the sea. If one lab won't print them, there is another right down the road. Besides, it might be a bit annoying, but I'd take it as a compliment to the quality of my work.

[Didache]

Besides, it might be a bit annoying, but I'd take it as a compliment to the quality of my work.

Indeed. No point in getting upset about it - and it IS a compliment, even if it is annoying.

Another side to it though: I do all my own printing these days but when I used film and relied on commercial printers I built up a good relationship with a local company who knew my work, knew how I liked it printed, and bent over backwards to produce prints according to my specification. I know that some people have no choice but to go with the big multiples, but nothing imo beats a good working relationship with someone who knows his customers. It may cost a little more but it's usually worth it.

Cheers
Mike

[readingr]

Another alternative is to use the Canon 5D or 1 series and get the Canon product that proves that the CF card with the photo on it was used to take the photo using the camera you have in your hands. Used by the legal services to prove the point in law courts, so not even walmart can argue with that.

However its expensive kit.

Roger

[fx101]

I have a D200 (not a D300 or 1 series canon) so the image verification thing isn't possible. RAW files are pretty much digital negatives-- I don't know how having the RAW files doesn't prove you're the photographer. No professional in their right mind would give those away. If I sell digital versions (300dpi) then I give them .tiff files. The annoying thing is that they didn't know there was a waiver that I had to sign so instead they badgered me about it to the point where I felt like going on a tyraid (but I didn't ). Some people are wondering why I even went to Walmart and that is that I needed some quick prints-- nothing I was going to frame or anything (see my post in the film section "c-tone prints" for my methods on that) but just to see how they turned out. I never go to Walmart anyways because we have the best supermarket in the world over here=Wegmans but anyways the point is that these people are trained to look for professional prints but aren't trained in what to do when they have some. I do sell prints (and have some up at a gallery) so I would be considered a professional I guess (although it's more of a hobby than a profession) but I would figure that these people could have at least told me over the phone what the fuss was about so I could give them my own printing release form. Once you're at the store no such manœuvre is possible. I admire that they're respecting copyrights, but at least they should get over their daftness and be logical when the actual photographer is there and has multiple pieces of proof that show that he/she took it.

[Lori11]

It seems its not really the prinitng but the rudness you had to put up with. I can take no for an answer, but being rude to a customer is unacceptable period. Smaller local business is struggling, use them! Its good for your community also

[fx101]

It seems its not really the prinitng but the rudness you had to put up with. I can take no for an answer, but being rude to a customer is unacceptable period. Smaller local business is struggling, use them! Its good for your community also

Oh trust me I will. There's a great little lab I found that does excellent proofs on an epson 9800 for about $9 per 8x10. The quality is definitely "gallery level" although I prefer it for proofing since C-tone printing on glossy papers eliminates the bronzing found on inkjet prints. I use them for my B&W stuff though because they are downright stunning. The issue is that I wanted some quick "supermarket quality" prints that were really cheap just to see what I would want to work with and proof later on. It's not competition because I would never use supermarket prints to frame-- the quality is just not there so I'll be using my local lab anyways for proofs. The rudeness is what really got to me. If you don't know the procedures then calmly ask; don't attack the customer.

[Lori11]

you want cheap and quick, Wallgreens online rocks.......use the other place for the really good stuff

[dumpy]

I would've just left and gone to weggies to make the prints. Speak with your $$.

[Canuck935]

I used to run a photo lab at a local Target store. Our policy was similar, and it was there to protect ourselves from being sued over printing copyrighted work without permission. You'd be surprised how many people would scan prints they got from studio's and such and tried to make copies.

If an image had a copyright mark on it or even looked professionally taken (in our opinion), then we would not print the image(s) until we received permission. Images that had copyright markings we would require a photographic release form from the studio or photographer whose name was on the image. If there was no markings but it looked professional we would still print the image(s) with a photographic release form signed by whoever ordered the prints.

Simple and easy. It sounds like the staff at the store you went to was indeed poorly trained. Like others have said, find another lab. Besides, I don't think you want poorly trained people making your prints anyway..

[SmartWombat]

So if you ever print at walmart carry a disclosure with you.

I had exactly the same experience at Costco here in the UK.
The regular staff know me and do really good work for me. They even clean the machines when I bring in an order for 100 or so prints, as well as turning off the automatic adjustments and letting me work with the printer profile and my own adjustments.
The jobsworth they had on the counter that night was an idiot - even thought my DTM shots were F1 photos (I had to correct their waiver form).

I now have a signed disclaimer on file there, but if they cause any more trouble the store manager will get involved. After that, I take my business elsewhere.

[AgingEyes]

I used to run a photo lab at a local Target store...

Sorry to jump in with a OT question, but could you tell me what the labs do with my files after they've printed them?

[fx101]

Sorry to jump in with a OT question, but could you tell me what the labs do with my files after they've printed them?

Well I figure a high volume place isn't going to bother backing up your stuff (although somebody could theoretically steal files).

I had exactly the same experience at Costco here in the UK.
I now have a signed disclaimer on file there, but if they cause any more trouble the store manager will get involved. After that, I take my business elsewhere.

I might just try that, although I'll tell you right now that Walmart just lost their business with me. Wegmans, target, or even my pharmacy is a better bet.

Simple and easy. It sounds like the staff at the store you went to was indeed poorly trained. Like others have said, find another lab. Besides, I don't think you want poorly trained people making your prints anyway.

You're right about that. The prints weren't really that good. There was banding and the machine clearly wasn't profiled properly. It goes to show you that less than stellar staff can degrade even the most beautiful photos (not to embellish or anything).

You want cheap and quick, Wallgreens online rocks.......use the other place for the really good stuff.

I'll try them out. I still will go to my local lab for proofs (the guy knows me and does an excellent job) and B&W printing though.

Actually, as bad as the walmart prints were, I found a pair I want to proof (at my local lab) and possibly get Cibachromed (if my wallet doesn't strangle me first) at Elevator Digital or if not sent for a chromira job at West Coast Imaging.

The staff wasn't only bad at the photo lab. When I was checking out I bought some roast beef and the lady said she didn't know what it was and so she had to call the deli. WHO DOESN'T KNOW WHAT ROAST BEEF IS?! Even if you don't, you would know if you worked at Walmart presumably.

[Asylum Steve]

"What do you mean I didn't take the pictures?"...

...but I like that they err on the side of caution when trying to protect shooters' copyrighted images. Stealing and illegally printing pics is an epidemic right now.

Yeah, I understand that on the surface you want to strangle these folks for being so dense, but truth is they are paying you a supreme compliment. Or at least your photos...

To me it's simple: if you can't quickly and easily convince them that you shot the shots, I wouldn't waste time trying. I'd simply find another place to have prints made.

BTW, you should actually feel sorry for them. Imagine if you had to work at that job... :cryin:

[Desertdog]

Random side question, but what kind of license did you show them? Where do you get one?

Also what about the photographic release forms etc ? If someone could explain all the legal documentation that goes with being a pro photog (not that I'm anywhere close to that), it would be awesome for us noobs