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View Poll Results: How would you use the Travel Forum? (please vote more than once)

Voters
31. You may not vote on this poll
  • I would VISIT a Travel Forum as much as I do my current favorite.

    9 29.03%
  • I would visit it often, but not as much as my current favorite.

    7 22.58%
  • I would visit seldom compared to others.

    6 19.35%
  • I would rarely visit.

    7 22.58%
  • I would often POST in a Travel Forum.

    3 9.68%
  • I would occassionally post in a travel forum.

    7 22.58%
  • I would seldom post.

    1 3.23%
  • I would rarely post.

    6 19.35%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Travel Forum

  1. #26
    Senior Member racingpinarello's Avatar
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    Re: Travel Forum

    After reading some of the threads I can totally understand about the dilution a new forum would create. So, I think it's a good ideal to not open a Travel forum up.

    I must say that travel photography, to me, is about capturing the essence of the location. What makes it tick? Where do locals go and do? What makes that location great? A photo of me by the Eiffel Tower does not create compelling photography nor does it make anybody want to go there.

    The number one comment I get from visitors to my website or friends is that the photos create a compelling wish or desire to visit. I've compelled at least 10 of my direct friends to travel to Argentina. That is travel photography.

    Does it need it's own forum, maybe not but good travel photography is about capturing the vibe of the city on film.

    Loren
    Loren Crannell
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  2. #27
    Liz
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    Moderator Emeritus Liz's Avatar
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    Re: Travel Forum

    Great post, Loren. Well said - a lot of food for thought. Thanks.

    Liz

    Quote Originally Posted by racingpinarello
    After reading some of the threads I can totally understand about the dilution a new forum would create. So, I think it's a good ideal to not open a Travel forum up.

    I must say that travel photography, to me, is about capturing the essence of the location. What makes it tick? Where do locals go and do? What makes that location great? A photo of me by the Eiffel Tower does not create compelling photography nor does it make anybody want to go there.

    The number one comment I get from visitors to my website or friends is that the photos create a compelling wish or desire to visit. I've compelled at least 10 of my direct friends to travel to Argentina. That is travel photography.

    Does it need it's own forum, maybe not but good travel photography is about capturing the vibe of the city on film.

    Loren

  3. #28
    light wait photophorous's Avatar
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    Re: Travel Forum

    Loren,

    I hadn't thought about it like that. You make a good point.

    Paul

  4. #29
    don't tase me, bro! Asylum Steve's Avatar
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    Thanks...

    Quote Originally Posted by photophorous
    I'm picking up what you're putting down, Steve. I was trying to figure out a way to say pretty much the same thing you said, but I gave up. Photography is photography, whether your at home or traveling...
    Nicely put. I think this would make an interesting philisophical discussion.

    I mean, we can't really deny the travel aspect of our photography. When it comes to my life and personal journey, yes, of course my China photos are all the more significant because they reflect the great adventure I had traveling through the Orient for three weeks.

    The same goes for the other foreign countries I've been to. Very likely once-in-a-lifetime stuff...

    But are the photos themselves any more substantial because I traveled a great distance to to take them?

    So, say a guy from Australia travels to New York and creates some very artistic or powerful pictures of the city. Now, even taking into account he has a different "eye" than the locals, is his traveling distance a factor in how you perceive his images?
    "Riding along on a carousel...tryin' to catch up to you..."

    -Steve
    Studio & Lighting - Photography As Art Forum Moderator

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  5. #30
    Senior Member OldSchool's Avatar
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    Geez, with all this talk on travel...

    Someone needs to submit a photo....
    Cheese,
    Tim
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Travel Forum-travel.jpg  
    Samurai #17 |;^\

  6. #31
    Viewfinder and Off-Topic Co-Mod walterick's Avatar
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    Re: Travel Forum

    Quote Originally Posted by racingpinarello



    The number one comment I get from visitors to my website or friends is that the photos create a compelling wish or desire to visit. I've compelled at least 10 of my direct friends to travel to Argentina. That is travel photography.



    Loren
    I think Loren hit the nail on the head.
    Walter Rick Long
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  7. #32
    Viewfinder and Off-Topic Co-Mod walterick's Avatar
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    Re: Blog!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Asylum Steve
    What's funny is that after thinking it over, perhaps a Travel Forum wouldn't be such a bad idea after all, as it is a topic that many members here share on many different levels, regardless of what you want to call the photos.
    There, see, Steve just talked himself in a circle and now he agrees with the idea

    I think it would be a successful forum. Successful meaning effective in accomplishing its goals, and being a place people would consistently go to use.

    The problems arise when you look at the effect it would have on the other forums, and whether or not it would sit still for long periods of time, thereby classifying it as a "dead" forum.

    If created, it would be a synthesis of Off-Topic, Viewfinder, and Nature. It would carry the verbose nature of the OT forum, the community nature of the VF, and the photographic- and awe-inspired qualities of N&W. But it would also push the definition of what a photography forum is because a lot of its content would be educational and not photographic.

    We'll see. It's in the hands of the powers that be right now. I think maybe in the future we'll see one, but not anytime time soon.

    In the meantime, that doesn't stop us from posting travel threads in the Viewfinder

    Rick
    Walter Rick Long
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  8. #33
    Viewfinder and Off-Topic Co-Mod walterick's Avatar
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    Re: Thanks...

    Quote Originally Posted by Asylum Steve
    I think this would make an interesting philisophical discussion.
    Since we're discussing the philosophy of travel photography...

    Can a resident of New York City take a travel image of New York City?

    The answer to that may help us define what "travel photography" is
    Walter Rick Long
    Nikon Samurai, Mamiya Master, Velvia Bandit


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  9. #34
    don't tase me, bro! Asylum Steve's Avatar
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    Re: Travel Forum

    Quote Originally Posted by walterick
    I think Loren hit the nail on the head.
    Now, you see, I completely disagree with this. Again, Loren, I respect your work and your opinions, but I will almost always seperate the photography from the circumstances behind it.

    Again, I go back to my philsophical question. Like most photographers, the majority of what I shoot is in my own back yard (figuratively, not literally). So say a picture I took in town for a reason that has nothing to do with travel inspires someone to come halfway around the world to visit the spot.

    Would that make the work a "travel" picture?

    I've always been inspired by the work of Henri Cartier-Bresson, especially his b&w images of Paris. I have to say seeing those photos makes me want to hop on a plane to France with a brick of b&w film.

    So, is HC-B a "travel" photographer? And is his work considered "travel" photography?

    Fashion photogs get flown around to cities all the time to do shoots in every type of setting and location known to man. Sometimes the look of a location is crucial to what the picture is trying to convey, sometimes it is not a factor at all.

    In light of that, do we consider fashion photography as "travel" photography, and if so, what if the photographer him or herself didn't actually have to travel that far?

    In my book, the answer to all these questions is no...

    I'll say it again: I don't think travel is a type of photography, unless it is specifically documenting the travel aspect of a trip.

    IMO, capturing the culture, flavor, emotion, and beauty of people and places anywhere in the world puts the photos in the same catagories as if someone who lives there took them...

    And the "travel", while a huge part of one's personal journey, is not really the subject of the photos.
    "Riding along on a carousel...tryin' to catch up to you..."

    -Steve
    Studio & Lighting - Photography As Art Forum Moderator

    Running the Photo Asylum, Asylum Steve's blogged brain pipes...
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  10. #35
    light wait photophorous's Avatar
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    Re: Travel Forum

    I understand Loren's description of what Travel Photography means, and it makes sense to me. It's a perfectly respectable form of photography. But, it seems like very specific type of photography. I don't think most people take Travel photographs with the intent to sell people on a location. Most people just go on trips for fun, and try to take advantage of the new and inspiring scenary to do their usual thing, photography. If you look at the number of people that actually participate in Travel Photography as Loren describes it, I doubt there'd be anywhere near enough people to fill up a forum. Most of us just don't have the means to travel that much. I might get to post my work once per year, or twice if I'm lucky. This is why I think the forum would consist mostly of discussions about where to go and what to see. Again...there's nothing wrong with that. If that's what people want, let's do it.

    ...6 cents, and counting...

    Paul

  11. #36
    Senior Member racingpinarello's Avatar
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    Re: Travel Forum

    HCB's photos were about the people and the personalities that he captured. His famous photos could have been shot anywhere, and they still would be classics. Why? Because his skill to capture those events on film, and being close to the subjects are legendary.

    Fashion photographers, they had better capture the essence of the clothing, or whatever they are being paid to sell. I remember seeing a National Geographic special on Max Vadukal and one of his shoots in Naples. He incorporated Naples into his shoot, but in the end it's about the model and the clothing. The end result is, "Can I afford that suit?" , not "Wow, I want to go to Italy."

    Around the corner from me is Sunset Magazine and the travel photographer's mission is to make people appreciate the locale. You can be a local, or a visitor but the goal is have people appreciate the city, restaurant, or even a neighborhood. I've been lucky enough to speak with the photo editor some time ago and when I have more free time from corporate america I would like to do some work for them.

    I guess that I am a photographer who is just lucky to travel, but some of my favorite pictures are from the Bay Area where I have lived almost my entire life. Photography is about luck, intent, and desire. If a photographer's intent is to capture a location, then I do see it as travel photography.

    My suggestion would be to have travel photography as monthly project - Titled Where and Why? I will even put up a $50 gift certificate to BH Photo for the person who best captures the essence of any location. It can even be the coffee shop around the corner and if you can make it compelling then that is cool.

    If it's a goal, we'll have at least 3 judges.

    Loren
    Loren Crannell
    LC Photography
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  12. #37
    don't tase me, bro! Asylum Steve's Avatar
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    Re: Travel Forum

    Loren, like I said...semantics.

    I agree with you on all your points. But your mention of Sunset Magazine now incorporates the travel industry, a commercial enteprise that is a whole 'nuther animal entirely...

    That is exactly what I said travel photography is: photos that emphasis the TRAVEL ASPECT of a people or place. So I guess it's really not the photos themselves, but how they are used that determines how we catagorize them.

    IOW, your photo of the two dancers in Argentina, to me is not a "travel photo", but rather a beautiful portrait. But say a commercial travel publication uses it to help illustrate a story on Buenos Aires for the North American market.

    Well then yes, for that moment it does become a travel pic...

    It's the context. If you were to call my Destination: China series "travel pics", I would find that slightly insulting, as they are being presented as fine art. Sure, the name itself implies travel, but that was simply a decision to make labeling and marketing the show easier (and, of course it infers my personal connection to the work).

    BTW, I like your idea of a monthly contest. And I'd be happy to serve as a judge if we can make it happen...
    "Riding along on a carousel...tryin' to catch up to you..."

    -Steve
    Studio & Lighting - Photography As Art Forum Moderator

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  13. #38
    Senior Member srobb's Avatar
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    Re: Travel Forum

    I voted for the forum and will now place myself between Steve and Loren. I agree totally with Loren and can also the point Steve is making. For me, though, there can be a slight difference in someone just taking snapshots of a place and someone that works as a Travel writer/photographer. These people are out to do just as Loren suggested; capture the spirit of a city, or even a region.

    I would love to get into doing that myself, but not sure if it will ever happen. I see one big problem with posting travel related topics in the other forums mentioned. I for one would not want to filter through all the non-travel related posts just to find the travel ones. They would have to be stickied somehow and that, depending on interest generated, could mean almost the whole first page with nothing but sticky topics.

    Guess I will just wait and see what happens.
    "No man has the right to dictate what other men should perceive, create or produce, but all should be encouraged to reveal themselves, their perceptions and emotions, and to build confidence in the creative spirit." --Ansel Adams

    "Sometimes I do get to places just when God's ready to have somebody click the shutter." --Ansel Adams



  14. #39
    Viewfinder and Off-Topic Co-Mod walterick's Avatar
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    Re: Travel Forum

    There is a fundamental difference between Loren and Steve's statements here:

    Steve is saying: "Travel photography is: photos that emphasis the TRAVEL ASPECT of a people or place."

    Loren is saying: "The travel photographer's mission is to make people appreciate the locale."

    I think this is the essential point in this discussion. I'm pulling your statements out of context here guys so correct me if I'm wrong.

    What is a travel photographer doing?
    I think Steve would answer, "There is no such thing as a travel photographer. Just a photographer who puts his photos in the context of travel after the fact.
    I think Loren would answer, "A travel photographer is a photographer with the intent of capturing the essence of a place, and selling the viewer on wanting to go there."

    If I am correct in putting words in your mouths, then I think this is the fundamental difference in your arguments and statements.

    Steve, I respect your point of view. Why call it travel photography if nearly anything could be made to fit the scope of a travel photograph? I think the definition of travel photography and in turn a travel photographer lies in not what he is shooting, but why he is shooting it. By your definition, yes, every photograph could be a travel photo. But what defines the genre is not the subject on the film, but the flavor that's brought about by that subject on film. To use the example you spoke of, a fashion shoot in front of the Eiffel Tower would not qualify for a travel photo because 1) the intent of the photo is not to capture the essence of the Eiffel Tower, and 2) the intent of the photographer is not to make people want to go to Paris. Are you sensing the difference?

    I ask this question again: "Can a citizen of New York City take a travel photo of New York City?" The answer is yes. Because travel photography is not dependent upon the photographer travelling. Just capturing the essence of a place, with the intent to inspire people to go there.

    I hope I am coming across clearly without sounding pretentious ;)
    Walter Rick Long
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  15. #40
    don't tase me, bro! Asylum Steve's Avatar
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    You got it...

    Rick, I can't speak for Loren, but I think you've captured what I was trying to say quite well.

    In a nutshell, to me travel photography means one of two things: an amateurish label used by people that take light-hearted pics of their trips, and a commercial industry term for photos being used precisely as you say, "for the flavor that's brought about by that subject on film"...

    I feel photos are not "travel photos" by nature, but only when they're used a certain way...

    BTW, what is this term film? I don't think I'm familiar with it...
    "Riding along on a carousel...tryin' to catch up to you..."

    -Steve
    Studio & Lighting - Photography As Art Forum Moderator

    Running the Photo Asylum, Asylum Steve's blogged brain pipes...
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  16. #41
    Ghost
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    Re: Travel Forum

    Where's the option that says I wouldn't visit at all? That's the one I choose.

    I've seen travel forums popup in other forum sites I visit and from my perspective they've always been unsuccessful. Not that people don't post, just dead-ish forums.

    I also think this site has gone forum happy. I think there are too many.

    I know I sound cranky lately, I'm just trying to post quickly.

  17. #42
    Princess of the OT adina's Avatar
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    Re: Travel Forum

    I would say there's quite a few forums already, and to add one more will pull away from what is here.

    Say you go on a trip and want to share your photos. We went to NC in January, those photos went in Viewfinder (which is described as our living room) Were they great photos? Eh... but it was a fun trip and I posted photos.

    Say you travel to some wonderously beautiful nature type spot. You've got a gorgeous photo that you want to share. That would be either nature/wildlife or viewfinder, depending on what you want. Do you just want to share your shot? Or do you want to discuss the nature aspect of it.

    Okay, you've got something like Steve's Florida work (which I just saw, reallly cool, if you haven't seen it go to his site and take a look). To me, I'm assuming that he is working on this as an artistic project. He's not sharing a photo of his back yard saying "hey look where I live" or "this is what I did today" or "hey look at the rare two headed green billed woodpecker" Those would go in the art forum, because he created them with the intent that they would be art.

    Looking for good Thai food in Denver? Off topic, because that's what it is.

    Looking for some insight as to where to travel? Ask in Viewfinder, there's sure to be someone who's either been there or lives there (we will make it to Phoenix)

    I think we have enough forums. Aren't there like 20? I probably regulary visit 3. When these boards are moving so fast that you have to go to page 3 to find a post you posted an hour ago, then maybe seperate some of the questions/comments into another catagory.


    BTW, if there is a contest, I want to judge!

  18. #43
    don't tase me, bro! Asylum Steve's Avatar
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    Re: Travel Forum

    "These people are out to do just as Loren suggested; capture the spirit of a city, or even a region..."

    Of course, but again, remember it's a commercial designation, not a photographic subject.

    Compare the term "travel" photography to something like "stock" photography. IMO, it's the same type of term. They're both generic, and apply to the business end of photography...

    Anything can be a stock photo. It's not a subject, but rather the way the photos are used. That's exactly the way I perceive the term "travel photo".

    "I would love to get into doing that myself, but not sure if it will ever happen..."

    Ah, so would I. Getting paid to travel and take picutres...

    "I see one big problem with posting travel related topics in the other forums mentioned. I for one would not want to filter through all the non-travel related posts just to find the travel ones..."

    But that's the way it is now, and I think what many of us are saying is that it works ok...
    "Riding along on a carousel...tryin' to catch up to you..."

    -Steve
    Studio & Lighting - Photography As Art Forum Moderator

    Running the Photo Asylum, Asylum Steve's blogged brain pipes...
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  19. #44
    Viewfinder and Off-Topic Co-Mod walterick's Avatar
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    Re: You got it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Asylum Steve
    In a nutshell, to me travel photography means one of two things: an amateurish label used by people that take light-hearted pics of their trips, and a commercial industry term for photos being used precisely as you say, "for the flavor that's brought about by that subject on film"...

    I feel photos are not "travel photos" by nature, but only when they're used a certain way...

    BTW, what is this term film? I don't think I'm familiar with it...
    You have to have been around a while to know what film is

    Steve I hear what you're saying. But we are dealing with two different definitions of what "travel photography" is. A forum working under the umbrella of your definition would be unnecesary and redundant. A forum working under the other definition would be more fluid, and yet directed. Directed toward the goals of, 1) capturing place, 2) creating attraction for said place. That is different from showing snaps of the kids hanging off the egde of Grand Canyon.

    But, the beauty part is, there's space for those shots too!

    I guess what I'm saying is, in a designated Travel Forum, WE get to decide what the definition of travel photography is.

    Okay, that's my last post for awhile. I'm ready to put this idea to rest.

    Besides, I am fast approaching 2000 posts here, and I had better think of something nifty for my big 2 triple 0

    Thanks for all your comments Steve!
    Rick
    Walter Rick Long
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  20. #45
    Re Member LeeIs's Avatar
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    Re: Travel Forum

    Seems I'm a bit late for this discussion. But I'll share what I think anyhow.

    I would post in a travel forum probably even more often than I post here (view finder + critique). I've been looking around for travel forums and found a few but I'm yet to find the perfect one. I think that's because my two loves, traveling and photography haven't really converged in any of the travel forums I've been to. To me a perfect travel forum would have great content and photography to see the places the people are talking about. So having one here would be great IMO.

    Also, I was thinking about this a few weeks back. I almost posted a thread here in teh viewfinder asking why there isn't a travel photo section on these forums? There's a lot of subsections here but I was quite puzzled why a travel one was overlooked to begin with. I thought otherwise of it and deleted my post before even making it. I'm glad you bring this idea forward.

    What you outlined is even more extensive than what I was thinking. I was thinking a simple, travel photos with descripition of places, stories. All structured continent -> Country -> (maybe city, might be too much work, and probably not needed as it would dilute the content) like:

    South America:
    Brazil
    Colombia
    Cuba
    ..etc

    North America:
    Canada
    Mexico...
    U.S.
    etc.


    Like I said earlier, I for one ( if that forum ever goes up) will be a very frequent visitor & contributor. I love traveling and love talking about it all the time!!

    Oh and I'll disagree with some of what was said on the "travel photography". To me travel photo is beyond the well presented art peice of a wall hanger, rather it just documents a place and time. I love traveling for the very reason of "seeing" the world and that's the exact reason I also love looking at travel photos. It gives me a glimpse of other places, cultures, etc. I think with the number of users here we could have a nice catalogue of the world in photos.
    Liban

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