They filed for bankruptcy

I ordered my 5D Mark II from a Ritz Camera store that is within walking distance of my house. (I first tried B&H online, but they weren't even putting people on a waiting list, the list was so long.) When I ordered the camera before Christmas, I was #200. At the end of January, I was #14.

I read that Ritz filed for bankruptcy this past Sunday. I went into the store yesterday and asked about my order. The guy assured me that, although some stores were closing, that his store wasn't going anywhere, and that as soon as Canon started shipping cameras to Ritz again, which they had apparently quit doing about 4 weeks ago, that I would get my camera. And that now that the filing was complete, Canon would start shipping again any day now, and that since I was still probably #14 on the list, that I would get my camera soon.

What do you think? I don't know anything about corporate bankruptcy. Do I sit waiting for my camera through Ritz, or do I place an order with someone else (and go to the end of the line)?

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Originally Posted by opus

I ordered my 5D Mark II from a Ritz Camera store that is within walking distance of my house. (I first tried B&H online, but they weren't even putting people on a waiting list, the list was so long.) When I ordered the camera before Christmas, I was #200. At the end of January, I was #14.

I read that Ritz filed for bankruptcy this past Sunday. I went into the store yesterday and asked about my order. The guy assured me that, although some stores were closing, that his store wasn't going anywhere, and that as soon as Canon started shipping cameras to Ritz again, which they had apparently quit doing about 4 weeks ago, that I would get my camera. And that now that the filing was complete, Canon would start shipping again any day now, and that since I was still probably #14 on the list, that I would get my camera soon.

What do you think? I don't know anything about corporate bankruptcy. Do I sit waiting for my camera through Ritz, or do I place an order with someone else (and go to the end of the line)?

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You are more patient than I am! I would be screaming that I want my camera or I want my money back.

I know next to nothing about bankruptcy, so I'm afraid I'm of no help with that. I do know that just because you file bankruptcy, it doesn't mean your business goes away. Hopefully they will get your camera in soon.

I wouldn't hold my breath. They owe the majority of their debt to Nikon and Canon- literally millions of dollars in credit that they can't pay off.

I agree with deckcadet, Canon isn't going to ship anything if Ritz can't cover their bills. In my buisness if someone owes me money, whether they file for bankrupy or not they are not getting their product if i can't get paid for it.

I would file a claim if it was a prepaid or a deposit order. If your lucky you may get some of your money back. I would not hold my breath.....

I haven't been charged yet.

Just wondering if I'd be best putting in another order somewhere else.

My personal opinion is get it somewhere else - cancel the order. My reason - big chance you couldn't return it if there was something wrong with it. I wouldn't take the chance.

A friend of mine ordered something from Fortunoff online at Christmas time and paid for it with a gift card. They took the "money" and she didn't receive it. She's called them regularly and they assured her the rug is coming in and they will ship it. She called again two days ago. They told her the store is closing and the item won't be coming in - and because they are not accepting gift cards anymore, she won't get any refund. Wow! It was their fault - they never shipped the item and she paid for it when they did accept gift cards. However, I heard today they are going to start taking gift cards again for another week only (too many complaints I guess).

I only share this because Fortunoff WAS a reputable place. So you never know!

Personally, I would get the camera somewhere else!

Liz

I agree with liz, I wouldnt take the risk buying from an already wounded company. If it were me I would wait and buy from B&H

Good you hadn't pre-paid anything - let the order stand, and maybe see what happens, but I would also look into placing an order with another reputible source. As a potential customer you also have the option of cancelling your order with whoever doesn't supply product ? :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by opus

I haven't been charged yet.

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Cool. Nice of you to be patient, but you need to watch out for "you" too. Any warranty issue would be dealt with by Canon regardless of whether or not the store survived, but it would be a whole lot easier walking into the store you bought it from for help if you ever needed it. Regardless, it doesn't sound like you'd get it anytime soon from Ritz.

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Originally Posted by opus

I haven't been charged yet.

Just wondering if I'd be best putting in another order somewhere else.

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Those are the operative words!

Go place your order somewhere else.

That would make me nervous about Ritz... love B&H!

Ritz filed for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy, which is merely a reorganization. They are not going out of business (which is a Chap. 7 filing). A consumer camera store without Canon and Nikon would be dead, so I would be almost certain those companies will continue to supply Ritz for the near future. So your order is most likely safe, Opus, and since you have nothing invested but time, there's not much to worry about anyway.

let the order stand since you have no cash out of pocket, they will ship when the chapter 11 is discharged, that will take 6-12 months in the current system for a business there size.

The reality is that Ritz owes Canon (and Nikon) millions of dollars they can't repay. So why would Canon send any additional equipment to Ritz, unless they paid for it in advance (which they obviously can't do)?

Hmmm... And Ritz is about the only retail shop within a 45min drive for me. It seems that I will doing my buying online.

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Originally Posted by brmill26

A consumer camera store without Canon and Nikon would be dead, so I would be almost certain those companies will continue to supply Ritz for the near future.

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I agree with the first part of this (before the comma) but C&N's leverage with getting money out of Ritz is the fact that they can withhold shipment. I've heard they have stopped shipping to Ritz but I don't know if that's true. I'd be surprised if they were shipping, actually. I'm not in the photo business, but in my world this is what happens when one of our customers (thankfully never us) gets behind on their account. We don't want them to go out of business, but OTOH we need to pay our bills too. C&N can't just keep throwing more gear at them hoping to avert a Chapter 7.

Well I really have no idea what their circumstances are. If someone wants to track down the court order, that may give more information as to the circumstances regarding existing suppliers. But typically, Chapt. 11 maintains previous contracts. If Canon and Nikon simply quit supplying goods, Ritz would not survive. Usually costs are cut in other ways (closing below par stores, layoffs, getting rid of dead weight like film departments), not in the supply/retail line, because if you cut off the the supply of products to a retail store...

Keep in mind as well that Canon and Nikon are huge. Ritz may owe them money, but for them it's little more than a bump. And as large a footprint as Ritz has, it would probably not be advantageous for them to pull their goods from such a large distributor. Afterall, the number of stores where you can walk in and hold a camera are shrinking fast, and I'm sure Canon and Nikon are well aware of that importance.

Chapter 11 is a chance to reorganize this way they can ask Nikon, Canon, or others to restructure the way they pay them off. Such as changing the terms of loans or changing how much they will actually pay back. Like giving Nikon pennies on the dollar.
Chapter 7 is liquidation. The will have to sell everything they have in order to pay off their debts. They may sell equipment, stores, franchises etc.


They seem to owe Nikon and Canon a few dollars.
http://www.usnews.com/blogs/the-tick...ankruptcy.html
"The filing also shows the Ritz's largest unsecured creditors are Nikon Inc. with a $26.2 million claim and Canon USA with a $13.7 million claim, according to Reuters. Shares of both camera makers have been slumping badly for months."

Ritz filed for Chapter 11 on Feb 22. On Feb 25, it gained court approval for an unsecured loan of $85 million from unnamed lenders ( though Wachovia is acting as agent in that transaction). That deal is set to be finalized March 19th.

Court papers show the company’s 30 largest unsecured creditors without collateral backing their claims are owed about $65.6 million. The three biggest creditors listed are: Nikon Inc., owed $26.6 million; Canon USA Inc., owed $13.7 million; and Fuji Photo Film USA Inc., owed $8.4 million.

I would expect shipments to resume on or around March 20. Ritz also owns Boater's World, a franchise of 137 boating equipment and supply shops which have seen decreased revenues since the climb of oil prices a few years back. Ritz also mentioned dimishing sales in it's photo finishing. I expect that neother of these will survive reorganization.

In 2001, Ritz bought Wolf Camera out of bankruptcy (oh, the irony). Ritz could conceivably sell of Wolf to remain solvent.

FWIW.

- Joe U.

B&H baby, B&H.

I buy practically all of my gear at B&H (online) and ASAP Photo in Greenville (an hour and a half drive from my house). Neither have ever let me down in any way.

I guess some of their people are pretty P.O'ed about the stuff they've been doing. Looks like somebody's spilling the beans. Kinda makes me think twice about going back there. Friend works there and showed me the website, so I figured I'd just spread the word. >:-D

http://whyritzisfailing.bravehost.com

B&H won't even take an order for the Mark II.

I spoke with the old guy at my Ritz, who is one of those guys you want working for you, he values relationships with customers and bends over backwards to keep them. I've listened to him talking to customers and he just has that extra special "touch" to make you feel good about working with him. He's got the old-time ethic.

Anyway, he told me that Canon is still shipping product to them, so they haven't stopped shipments. He called his buyer and was told that Canon has NO mark IIs. I'm # 11 on the list right now because three people before me canceled their orders. But he assured me that, while low producing stores are being closed, their store isn't going anywhere "because of customers like me." He gave me the option to cancel my order, but I told him I'd keep it standing unless I found the camera somewhere else first.

Because honestly, I've looked and it's just not available anywhere else either. Not anywhere I've looked.

retouch, what is your basis for your assertion? Just opinion, or do you have special information?

I'm not gonna make decisions based on someone's assumptions.

As an unsecured creditor (Nikon/Canon), the safest time to ship is after a bankruptcy has been filed. All transactions are monitored by the court so that only purchases and activity necessary for the reorganization will be allowed - and paid for.

The worst thing for Nikon and Canon to do would be to NOT continue supplying goods. Not only would cash flow immediately cease with this account, but it would surely force Ritz into liquidation instead of reorganization. So those $26.2 million and $13.7 million unsecured debts (prior to bankruptcy) would simply not be paid. It would be a lose-lose scenario for the manufacturers.