ViewFinder Photography Forum

General discussion - our photography living room. Talk about aesthetics, philosophy, share your photos - get inspired by your peers! Moderated by another view and walterick.
ViewFinder Forum Guidelines >>
Introduce Yourself! >>
PhotographREVIEW.com Gatherings and Photo Field Trips >>
Results 1 to 22 of 22
  1. #1
    Moderator of Critiques/Hearder of Cats mtbbrian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    3,972

    Salt Lake Photographer Settles With City..

    I thought I'd share an article I read in today's Salt Lake Trib about a photographer who sued the city who had wrongfully searched her and detained her.
    She was on a public sidewalk photographing and was approached by a uniformed police officer.
    From what it sounds like, the city isn't exactly admiting wrong doing, but isn't saying they they were right either.

    Discuss...

    http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_3282390

    Brian
    My "Personal" Photography Website...
    高手
    My Moderator Bio Page...
    Nikon Samurai #2 - Emeritus
    See more of my photography here...

    “A great photograph is one that fully expresses what one feels, in the deepest sense, about what is being photographed, and is, thereby, a true manifestation of what one feels about life in its entirety...” - Ansel Adams

    "Photography Is An Act Of Life" - Maine 2006

  2. #2
    Senior Member srobb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Mt. Sterling KY
    Posts
    613

    Re: Salt Lake Photographer Settles With City..

    All I can say is yay fir her and that is really sad. Not sure if this is, but incidents similar to this are absolutely ridiculous and brought on by all the "new powers" handed down from Homeland Security policy. I realize she may have been scared into doing it, but I would never have surrendered the other info. They had no right for all that.

  3. #3
    light wait photophorous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Posts
    1,910

    Re: Salt Lake Photographer Settles With City..

    That's messed up. A lot of people wouldn't know exactly what their rights are in that kind of situation, and would have just given the information with out a fight. That's what makes this so bad. A police officer can get away with that kind of thing most of the time. Good for her, but I would like to have heard that the officer was reprimanded.

    Paul

  4. #4
    Captain of the Ship Photo-John's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Salt Lake City, Utah, United States
    Posts
    15,422

    Send A Message

    It sounds to me like she should have pursued this further. I think the ACLU would have been interested in this case. The more publicity this gets the better.
    Photo-John

    Your reviews are the foundation of this site - Write A Review!

  5. #5
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    McCordsville, IN
    Posts
    4,755

    Re: Salt Lake Photographer Settles With City..

    If you folks only knew what police CAN get away with! I know from first hand experiance what they can do after working at a couple departments, and how far they will go to cover their tracks.

    JS

  6. #6
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Posts
    44

    Re: Salt Lake Photographer Settles With City..

    Good for her, but I'd like to hear the full story. I may be biased since I'm a copper in a "large midwestern city," and can't imagine why a copper would jack-up someone on a public sidewalk taking the typical ordinary photograph. The article definitly does not paint the entire picture of what she was doing or what type of pictures she was taking. Could she have been photographing a "restricted site" (as per Homeland Security). That's not neccessarily illegal, but raises an eyebrow. Did someone call the police because of her "suspcious behavior?" Believe me, citizens are by far, the worst when it comes to calling the police regarding suspicious people. They're just "suspicious." Then when we get the assignment and find Ms. Photographer minding her own business, the outcome definitly depends on her and her attitude.

    This entire situation wasn't worth it from either end. Names of Joe Blow citizens don't go into a national database telling other coppers all the police contacts this person has had. She would've been better off telling the coppers that she's a photog and answered questions regarding what she was doing. She would've been on her way with no problem. At least that's my stance. Now, sure, there are some... maybe more than some crappy cops out there, I guess it's having the faith that there are more good than bad.

  7. #7
    Ghost
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Crystal Lake, IL
    Posts
    1,028

    Re: Salt Lake Photographer Settles With City..

    Yep. Life sucks doesn't it.

    I'd ahve just given up the information. It's not worth fighting it. So they get one over on me, big deal. At least I'm not sueing for lawyer fees and who knows what other problems it'll cause me.

    And yes, I realize that's the bad thing about all of this. People like myself letting myself be taken advantage of, or my rights abused.

    We only live once, if this a statement one wants to make with their lives, so be it. Much respect to them. I've got other battles I'd rather fight at the moment.

    I do hope she asks for a bit more money than this is costing her though.

  8. #8
    Captain of the Ship Photo-John's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Salt Lake City, Utah, United States
    Posts
    15,422

    Thanks!

    efjeld-
    Thanks a lot for posting in this thread. It's good for us to get what might be considered the "opposite" perspective. I think that public and authorities in this country have been pumped up to be reactionary towards photographers on the street. And there has been some ridiculous talk about restricting photography of landmarks, trains, subways, airports, etc. It's understandable but I doubt the effectiveness of it as an anti-terror strategy. But your reply points out some of the legitimate reasons why she might have been stopped. The police may or may not have been out of line. And her behaviour may or may not have been part of the problem. I guess for me, the really interesting part of this is the fact that we're now in a climate where photographers need to worry a little about taking pictures in public places. There was a time when I might have taken my camera out in an airport without thinking twice. Now, if I do take pictures in an airport, I'm always a little nervous. And I'm just waiting for the day when someone challenges me for taking pictures in a public place.

    Thanks a lot for posting. And I hope you stick around. We've got a pretty diverse community here but I don't think we have anyone else who has identified themself as law enforcement. I like having all types. Keeps things interesting and encourages us all to keep open minds and be sensitive about different attitudes and cultures.
    Photo-John

    Your reviews are the foundation of this site - Write A Review!

  9. #9
    Moderator of Critiques/Hearder of Cats mtbbrian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    3,972

    On a related note...

    Earlier this year I was out photographing on a public sidewalk.
    When I hear a guy, who was in his car, shouting at me, asking me what I was doing.
    I blew him off, saying I couldn't hear him and promting him to turn. He was at a light, turning right, and there were several cars behind him.
    He final turns.
    I cross the street, thinking he would be on his way.
    I go into a store, come out and who do you think I see.
    The guy from the car!
    He starts asking me who I was, what I was doing with my camera ect..
    I told him what I was doing and had every right to do so.
    He persists as do I and he says I should check the local statues, etc on photographing.
    He was getting really annoying!

    We have lots of rights to be out photographing out in public and you don't need consent if your use isn't meant for commercial purposes.

    Anyway...
    Brian
    My "Personal" Photography Website...
    高手
    My Moderator Bio Page...
    Nikon Samurai #2 - Emeritus
    See more of my photography here...

    “A great photograph is one that fully expresses what one feels, in the deepest sense, about what is being photographed, and is, thereby, a true manifestation of what one feels about life in its entirety...” - Ansel Adams

    "Photography Is An Act Of Life" - Maine 2006

  10. #10
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    McCordsville, IN
    Posts
    4,755

    Re: Salt Lake Photographer Settles With City..

    I'd have asked to see his badge and ID for the police dept! If he didn't have them I'd tell him to mind his own business....I'm working!

    JS

  11. #11
    Captain of the Ship Photo-John's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Salt Lake City, Utah, United States
    Posts
    15,422

    Commercial Purposes

    Quote Originally Posted by mtbbrian
    We have lots of rights to be out photographing out in public and you don't need consent if your use isn't meant for commercial purposes.
    Actually, you can do a lot of commercial shooting in public - it's public! It gets tricky if you use recognizable faces or or private property for photos intended to sell something. But if I'm in public, I'm shooting and no private citizen is stopping me. Even the police will have to provide a very good reason. I would have been sorely tempted to tear into the guy that was bothering you, Brian. He sounds like a busybody in need of some correction. Of course, no need to cause myself any trouble. But damnit, some people just have it coming, don't they?
    Photo-John

    Your reviews are the foundation of this site - Write A Review!

  12. #12
    Moderator of Critiques/Hearder of Cats mtbbrian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    3,972

    Re: Commercial Purposes

    Quote Originally Posted by Photo-John
    I would have been sorely tempted to tear into the guy that was bothering you, Brian. He sounds like a busybody in need of some correction. Of course, no need to cause myself any trouble. But damnit, some people just have it coming, don't they?

    You are so right about that John. He was very much a "busy body"!
    I was tempted to squeeze off a few frames, in an attempt to scare him away or piss him off enough. I know I could out run him, I wasn't too afraid of him.
    Some people!
    Brian
    My "Personal" Photography Website...
    高手
    My Moderator Bio Page...
    Nikon Samurai #2 - Emeritus
    See more of my photography here...

    “A great photograph is one that fully expresses what one feels, in the deepest sense, about what is being photographed, and is, thereby, a true manifestation of what one feels about life in its entirety...” - Ansel Adams

    "Photography Is An Act Of Life" - Maine 2006

  13. #13
    don't tase me, bro! Asylum Steve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Middle Florida
    Posts
    3,667

    I'm glad you posted this...

    Quote Originally Posted by efjeld
    ...can't imagine why a copper would jack-up someone on a public sidewalk taking the typical ordinary photograph.
    Maybe it's the way I was raised, but we always respected and trusted police (at least until givien a reason not to). And while I'm all for a person's civil rights, I never thought it was a big deal if cops asked to see your ID. I mean, I figured that was part of their job, to be checking things out...

    Anyway, I agree that there's almost certainly more to this story than the simple description of what happened. People's versions of things, from both sides, often have a way of changing a bit after the fact, especially when lawsuits are involved.

    Well, without actually being there and in that situation, I still say I don't think I'd be so indignant if a cop asked to see my ID, even if I wasn't doing anything. Hey, I'd just talk to the guy and find out what the problem was...
    "Riding along on a carousel...tryin' to catch up to you..."

    -Steve
    Studio & Lighting - Photography As Art Forum Moderator

    Running the Photo Asylum, Asylum Steve's blogged brain pipes...
    www.stevenpaulhlavac.com
    www.photoasylum.com

  14. #14
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Posts
    44

    Re: Thanks!

    John,

    Thanks for the positive feedback. After reading the few replies, including Brian's about the guy following him around. It really should show you that "some individuals" are just nosey and just feel the need to exert their authority when there's really no point. (And they have none in the first place!)

    My last vacation, I had my camera out from the time we got on the tram from the parking lot to check-in. There's really no need to get itchy. It went back in the bag during the flight though.

    Sure, some of "us" aren't on the up and up, but like Steve said, trust the police until you have a reason not to.

    On a side note, the closest I got to jacking up a photographer was at 4:00 in the morning. He was in the gangway between two houses with his tripod (looked like a short ladder in the dark), and he was on his way to the lake to watch the sunrise.

  15. #15
    don't tase me, bro! Asylum Steve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Middle Florida
    Posts
    3,667

    It depends...

    Quote Originally Posted by Photo-John
    Actually, you can do a lot of commercial shooting in public - it's public!...
    That may seem logical, but truth is, many municipalities require a shooting permit to photograph commercially on public streets and in public parks, and they have every right to restrict you in any way they see fit.

    Now of course, the irony in that is that many police in cities and larger towns identify a commercial photographer solely based on the amount of equipment he or she is using.

    I know in Miami Beach (and Chicago btw) a large tripod is the tipoff. Not to mention a model and stylists...

    So if you were to go around with a single camera body and a small or no bag, you could probably get away with shooting whatever you wanted, commercial or otherwise. Of course you may have to lie, too...
    "Riding along on a carousel...tryin' to catch up to you..."

    -Steve
    Studio & Lighting - Photography As Art Forum Moderator

    Running the Photo Asylum, Asylum Steve's blogged brain pipes...
    www.stevenpaulhlavac.com
    www.photoasylum.com

  16. #16
    Hardcore...Nikon Speed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Newport, NC
    Posts
    4,318

    Photographer's Rights

    I would highly recommend every photographer print a copy of this and carry it with you.

    http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf

    As Steve mentioned, find out if you need a permit. If you do, get one. If not, don't be afraid to exercise your rights as an American citizen!
    Nikon Samurai # 1


    http://mccabephotography.tripod.com

    http://precisionshotsphoto.tripod.com

    "Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry." - Thomas Jefferson

  17. #17
    Hardcore...Nikon Speed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Newport, NC
    Posts
    4,318

    Wink the city isn't exactly admiting wrong doing...

    But they paid her $9000!!!!!!!

    And they destroyed the record of the incident.

    Actions speak louder than words!

    ;-)
    Nikon Samurai # 1


    http://mccabephotography.tripod.com

    http://precisionshotsphoto.tripod.com

    "Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry." - Thomas Jefferson

  18. #18
    Moderator of Critiques/Hearder of Cats mtbbrian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    3,972

    Re: Photographer's Rights

    Thanks for posting that again Robert!
    I had it bookmarked at home and lost if when my computer crashed!
    Brian
    My "Personal" Photography Website...
    高手
    My Moderator Bio Page...
    Nikon Samurai #2 - Emeritus
    See more of my photography here...

    “A great photograph is one that fully expresses what one feels, in the deepest sense, about what is being photographed, and is, thereby, a true manifestation of what one feels about life in its entirety...” - Ansel Adams

    "Photography Is An Act Of Life" - Maine 2006

  19. #19
    don't tase me, bro! Asylum Steve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Middle Florida
    Posts
    3,667

    Again, keep in mind...

    Thanks for the link, Speed. Yes of course, I carry a copy of that document with me at all times.

    But everyone should note that those rights apply to personal photography only.

    Again, once we involve commercial shooting, the rules change significantly...
    "Riding along on a carousel...tryin' to catch up to you..."

    -Steve
    Studio & Lighting - Photography As Art Forum Moderator

    Running the Photo Asylum, Asylum Steve's blogged brain pipes...
    www.stevenpaulhlavac.com
    www.photoasylum.com

  20. #20
    re-Member shutterman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    350

    Re: Salt Lake Photographer Settles With City..

    I agree with the others that want to know if this is the "whole" story. there several places in public that have posted signs about photography saying you need a permit especially post 911. If you really want the picture -get the permit!
    Wes

    Who are they, where are they, how can they possibly know all the rules?

  21. #21
    Hardcore...Nikon Speed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Newport, NC
    Posts
    4,318

    Re: Photographer's Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by mtbbrian
    Thanks for posting that again Robert!
    I had it bookmarked at home and lost if when my computer crashed!
    Brian
    Glad to help Brian!

    Everytime I hear or read about a photographer getting harrassed, this is the first thing I think of.

    It is unfortunate that we have to worry about getting questioned or harrassed while enjoying our hobby.
    Nikon Samurai # 1


    http://mccabephotography.tripod.com

    http://precisionshotsphoto.tripod.com

    "Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry." - Thomas Jefferson

  22. #22
    Senior Member srobb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Mt. Sterling KY
    Posts
    613

    Re: Salt Lake Photographer Settles With City..

    Fingured since this thread is already here and deals with the subject, I would just post my question here. Actually a couple.

    First, I have found a farm along the road I drive to work that is a very good place to photograph deer in the field. I have not put any of the buildings into what pics I have taken, but should I have already requested permission to shoot from the owners. Would really like to know so I can decide if I need to do that before I shoot more.

    Second, what about abandoned buildings on farm property, or even in town? Would I need to go back and get permission from the owners of like Duncan Tavern? These things I am not really sure and I need to make sure I have all my ducks in row in case I can get any of these published.

    Any help would be appreciated.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •