Prints: Do-it-yourself or?

Do most of you print your own images? Or, if not, do you edit the images before getting the prints? Also what is the difference in cost?

I had been using the local Walmart for 4x6 prints for a couple of years because they do an excellent job believe it or not. I would edit the images and the results always matched - believe it or not again. Now the same Walmart isn't doing any work from CF cards because it's the only card they need an insert for in their machine. They said the insert is expensive and every one of them has been stolen so they decided not to accept CF card images.

Until lately I had a good experience with Winkflash too. They never edited my prints, but the last batch was awful! So much for that.

I cannot find a place that doesn't edit the images, so am wondering if it would be cost-effective to get a printer. If it means taking a lot more of my time or it is a big learning curve to print my own, I can't go that route because I simply don't have the time.

Thanks for your experience and/or advice.

Liz

Hey Liz

I just recently started printing my own pics. For use around the house, not for "profesional quality." I hate to have to tell you, for me there is a learning curve. The colors in your camera, monitor, and printer have to match. Mine are a bit off, and I don't want to have to buy all the color calibrating software to repair it. My ink costs about $5 off the internet, and Kodak gloss paper goes for about $20/50 sheets. So it more cost effective for me to print at home (plus I'm saving travel time.) But the quality is not as good as sending it out, yet. Whether or not you'll find it effective depends on how closely your prints match your screen, I think.

On the other hand, I have heard that Adorama.com doesn't change your colors if you tell them not to. You might give them a shot. Look in this thread for some more ideas:

http://forums.photographyreview.com/...ad.php?t=20591

Good luck!
Rick

I just bought an Epson R320 inkjet printer (mostly to print on printable cds) but I may play with in just for the experience. I usually have prints up to 8x10 done at a local lab and larger prints from MPIX.

I tried the local WalMart a few times but they don't maintain their equipment very well and I was not happy with the prints.

I will probably continue to have prints made the same way but may use my printer to proof larger prints before getting them done by pros. Between the cost of ink and paper and the time and expense of calibrating the monitor and printer to get the best results I'm not sure printing yourself would be cost effective for most of us.

How were your prints edited? Were they cropped or was something else done?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Liz

Now the same Walmart isn't doing any work from CF cards because it's the only card they need an insert for in their machine. They said the insert is expensive and every one of them has been stolen so they decided not to accept CF card images.

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If you're happy with their printing, you could get a memory card they do support to take photos to them. A pretty good size SD card and reader certainly won't cost nearly as much as even a really cheap photo printer.

Except for anything above 8x10, I've always printed my own. In the days of film, I used local labs, but now I print my own on dye sub printers. For 4x6, I use a Samsung SPP-2040 printer, about $80 to $130 depending on current rebate offers and where you buy. For 5x7 to 8x10, I print on my Olympus P-400. I love dye sub because they're better than inkjet and they're water proof, unlike inkjets and real photographs, and indistinguishable from real photo prints.

I don't own a printer - used to but didn't use it enough and it stopped working because of it. Locally, I can get 4x6's (unedited by them) for $.15 each and the quality is great from their Fuji Frontier. It's even at a grocery store I normally shop at.

I always edit and re-size so all they have to do is print exactly as I submit the image. I burn to CD and bring them in that way but if the kiosk took a USB flash drive that would be even more convenient. At their prices, I have a hard time believing that I could do it cheaper myself (cost of ink and paper, as well as printer itself). I don't make many prints and this store is very convenient to get to. If you have a printer, you will need to use it occasionally to keep the ink cartridges from getting clogged.

Mpix has a way to order prints unedited - after you upload, check a box for "no corrections" or something like that... Never had a problem with them.

I agree about having a calibrated monitor - with experience and an uncalibrated monitor you can get pretty close but usually not consistent. Really, this is important for any image editing - whether or not you print yourself or send the files to a lab.

Thanks Rick,

I'm give Adorama a "shot" excuse the pun. I'm going to also try mpix. From what everyone has said, I don't think I'll put any money into a printer.

To be honest, Walmart did such a good job on my prints, that I had gotten spoiled. I may try them online before I go to another place. This might work. I'm very disappointed.

The last time I gave some prints to some friends, they were of their son and daughter in a play. The prints were awesome. The family said "what kind of camera do you have, as we have never seen such beautiful photos."

Thanks again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by walterick

Hey Liz

I just recently started printing my own pics. For use around the house, not for "profesional quality." I hate to have to tell you, for me there is a learning curve. The colors in your camera, monitor, and printer have to match. Mine are a bit off, and I don't want to have to buy all the color calibrating software to repair it. My ink costs about $5 off the internet, and Kodak gloss paper goes for about $20/50 sheets. So it more cost effective for me to print at home (plus I'm saving travel time.) But the quality is not as good as sending it out, yet. Whether or not you'll find it effective depends on how closely your prints match your screen, I think.

On the other hand, I have heard that Adorama.com doesn't change your colors if you tell them not to. You might give them a shot. Look in this thread for some more ideas:

http://forums.photographyreview.com/...ad.php?t=20591

Good luck!
Rick

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Thanks Dan,

How were your prints edited? Were they cropped or was something else done?

The color mostly. Also - they weren't sharp. I don't know what they did, but most of the images came out with a very pink hue. They just looked awful!

Thanks for taking the time to read and reply.

Liz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Erik Stiegler

If you're happy with their printing, you could get a memory card they do support to take photos to them. A pretty good size SD card and reader certainly won't cost nearly as much as even a really cheap photo printer.

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Well, the problem being money. I have invested in so many CF cards that I wouldn't want to begin a collection of other cards. But that would be a good idea if I could afford it.

Thanks for taking the time to help.

Liz

Leon,

Thanks for the reply. I admire anyone who can do the whole process. I've never been good a technical things, and do minimal post processing, so another learning curve probably wouldn't work for me.

Liz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Liz

Well, the problem being money. I have invested in so many CF cards that I wouldn't want to begin a collection of other cards. But that would be a good idea if I could afford it.

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You wouldn't need a collection, just enough to take your photos to their machine. Unless you're having hundreds of photos printed at once, a single 512MB or 1GB card should do.

Can they use CDs? CD-RW discs would be a super cheap solution.

I always edit and re-size so all they have to do is print exactly as I submit the image.

Steve - can you tell me how to re-size for printing? I know this sounds like a dumb question, but I always put the size at 1600x1067. Is this what you mean by resizing? I got this size from Winkflash - it was what they suggest for high quality 4x6 prints. Do I have to do anything else?

Mpix has a way to order prints unedited - after you upload, check a box for "no corrections" or something like that... Never had a problem with them.

I'm going to try Mpix and Adorama and see the results at these 2 places. I checked out the thread from last week about online printing and these 2 seem to be the most popular. I like the idea they give the option of no editing.

I agree about having a calibrated monitor - with experience and an uncalibrated monitor you can get pretty close but usually not consistent. Really, this is important for any image editing - whether or not you print yourself or send the files to a lab.

Hmmmm, I think the expense is more than I anticipated, but what I feared. I don't want to invest in the calibration software - and/or other expenses - and all the time that printing will involve.

Thanks a lot, Steve.
Liz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Liz

Steve - can you tell me how to re-size for printing? I know this sounds like a dumb question, but I always put the size at 1600x1067. Is this what you mean by resizing? I got this size from Winkflash - it was what they suggest for high quality 4x6 prints. Do I have to do anything else?

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Liz - first off, it's not a dumb question. Some people worry more about this (like me) than others but it really doesn't take long to do it. With smaller prints like about 8x12 and smaller, I just go ahead and use the supposed industry standard of 300dpi. Larger prints may be lower than that, like 240, but the file size is still pretty small with 8x12 and smaller that I don't worry about it too much. If you're on dial-up then really any printable resolution will take almost too long to do, btw.

I think you're using Elements so the commands are probably a little different but should be close. Go to Image > Resize, enter the size dimensions and resolution of 300dpi. If you do your sharpening in Photoshop, do it after this step. As long as your prints are "full frame" which would be 4x6 or 8x12 on a DSLR, you're all set. If you need another print size (proportion, really) like 5x7 or 8x10 then you will have to crop to that size. What I would do for an 8x10 is to first make an 8x12 as above, then set the crop tool to 8x10 at 300dpi - and make the crop selection from there. After this step, do the sharpening. If you have questions about this I can probably get a little more detailed - let me know. It will only take a minute or two to do this, but you won't have any surprises when you go to pick up your prints. :)

Hi Liz,

Printing your own images on a printer is time consuming to say the least. I gave up because it was so unrealiable for my purposes.

So far, for 4x6's I've been happy with Snapfish.com and I use them to print out wedding proofs for my wedding clients. Otherwise I use Calypso or West Coast Imaging for my large prints. I've wanted to get a large Epson printer, but just cannot afford the time to calibrate, buy ink, and maintain it.

Loren

I spent several years trying to get prints that rivaled a good lab and never could, so I gave up and haven't printed anything at home (except in a pinch) for about a year and a half. It's also MUCH cheaper to outsource them.

I stopped using my printers months ago. I send everything through a lab.

Have you tried uploading the pictures to the walmart website and just go in to pick up your photos? We recently gave wally-world a try with suprisingly good results, better than snapfish. Snapfish was using some really thin photo paper, not the normal thickness we were used to for our film 4x6 prints.

And I do beleive in doing all my editing, cropping, and resizing for the size to be printed at 300ppi, like another view said.

BM

Thanks Steve,
I printed out your directions. I'm doing some of this. Here is a copy of the box I have to fill out. If I try changing some of the numbers, etc., other things change. For instance. I can't change the document size without the pixel dimensions change. When I sent the images to Winkflash they wanted highest resolution to be 1600. If I change the document size to 4x6 - it changes the pixel dimensions to 1800.

Is this okay? (I've had good prints done with this as is)

Image Size
Pixel Dimensions: 4.88
Width 1600
Height 1067

Document Size
Width 5.333 inches
Height 3.557 inches

Resolution 300 pixels/inch

(x) Constrain Proportions
(x) Resample Image <Bicubic>


Thanks. I really appreciate all of your help here. This isn't what I do best....thank goodness!
Liz

Can they use CDs? CD-RW discs would be a super cheap solution.

I may consider learning how to burn either CD's or DVD's. I've never done that. It's not expensive, so maybe I'll go there next.

Thanks Erik

Liz

Loren,

Thanks for sharing what you do for prints, and which place you use. I'm keeping a log on these online places.

I'm beginning to understand why many persons like yourself don't do their own printing. :-)

Liz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by racingpinarello

Hi Liz,

Printing your own images on a printer is time consuming to say the least. I gave up because it was so unrealiable for my purposes.

So far, for 4x6's I've been happy with Snapfish.com and I use them to print out wedding proofs for my wedding clients. Otherwise I use Calypso or West Coast Imaging for my large prints. I've wanted to get a large Epson printer, but just cannot afford the time to calibrate, buy ink, and maintain it.

Loren

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lava Lamp

I spent several years trying to get prints that rivaled a good lab and never could, so I gave up and haven't printed anything at home (except in a pinch) for about a year and a half. It's also MUCH cheaper to outsource them.

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I'm sure I'd do a lot worse with printing my own. Thanks for sharing your experience. It adds to the conviction that I'll find another lab.

Liz

Thanks Seb and Bmadau,

I appreciate your input....Final Answer: I'm not doing anything at home!

Have you tried uploading the pictures to the walmart website and just go in to pick up your photos

That's my next test.........

Thanks.

Liz

Over the net is simple, and you wont waste time/fuel going back and forth. If you send them online, they are not touched at all. If you go into the store, they should print the photos for you from the CF card with the terminal behind the counter. If one of my associates told you they couldn't do your order, it'd be on.

Still, the best bet if you want the 1 hour 4X6 from the mart, try the online thing, it's very simple. Plus you can send them to any store. For example if you want to send some to family on the opposite coast, just enter that zip and select their closest location. I've seen some 20X30 prints recenty, and was impressed (that is two day service though).

If you send them online, they are not touched at all. If you go into the store, they should print the photos for you from the CF card with the terminal behind the counter

Well, they did that for me once. However, this time I was told "we aren't doing CF card processing anymore."

Maybe the tech was wrong. I'll go back and check, but first I'm going to try them online. It may work - and it may be easier.

Thanks.
Liz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Liz

Thanks Steve,
I printed out your directions. I'm doing some of this. Here is a copy of the box I have to fill out. If I try changing some of the numbers, etc., other things change. For instance. I can't change the document size without the pixel dimensions change. When I sent the images to Winkflash they wanted highest resolution to be 1600. If I change the document size to 4x6 - it changes the pixel dimensions to 1800.

Is this okay? (I've had good prints done with this as is)

Image Size
Pixel Dimensions: 4.88
Width 1600
Height 1067

Document Size
Width 5.333 inches
Height 3.557 inches

Resolution 300 pixels/inch

(x) Constrain Proportions
(x) Resample Image <Bicubic>


Thanks. I really appreciate all of your help here. This isn't what I do best....thank goodness!
Liz

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Liz, 1600 is "close enough" for a 4x6 or 5x7 but beyond that you may start seeing signs of the resolution being too low. Every shot is different, but at 300dpi you won't have to worry. I say "close enough" because 300 dots per inch x 6 inches = 1800 dots (pixels). The difference between 1600 and 1800 is a small percentage and like I said 300 is very safe anyway. At 4x6 and 1600 pixels on the long side, you still have 267dpi. I'd still get in the habit of using 300dpi though, it makes life easier.

Your print size (document size) is slightly smaller than 4x6 because the resolution is set at 300dpi and the maximum pixel dimension is 1600 pixels. 1600 / 300 = 5.33 inches as shown above. This part of it is just math, same with the height of 1067 / 300 = 3.56 inches.

If you changed the resolution to 267 dpi, the document size should change to 4" x 6" (or very close to that). You don't have to worry about doing this because the machine is set to make a 4x6 print and will stretch your 3.56 x 5.33 document into a 4 x 6 print automatically. Again, since it's close you're very unlikely to see any difference between that 267dpi that it works out to and a full 300dpi.

So - to use your standard of 300dpi, you could use pixel dimensions of 1800 pixels wide (or high for a vertical shot) by 1200 pixels high (6" x 300dpi = 1800 and 4" x 300dpi = 1200). Keep the two boxes at the bottom checked (always, I'll say). Actually you may be able just to plug in the 6" and 4" dimensions, leaving 300dpi as it will change the pixel dimensions to what the math works out to.

Again, this is for full-frame shots only such as 4x6, 8x12 or 16x24 on a DSLR. If you need an 8x10, first make an 8x12 and then crop with the crop tool set at 8" x 10" at 300dpi. Hope this helps!

Steve,
I can't thank you enough. I'll change it from 1600 to 1800 now that I'm not using Winkflash. I think they said not to upload anything more than 1600 - that's why I did it.

I really appreciate your help! Awesome! Now I can upload some images to Walmart online to see if I can get the same quality prints I did before. They also use good paper. I believe it's Kodak, but don't recall.

Then I'll try mpix and Adorama and compare. I feel so good now that I know the dimensions are correct.

Liz

Glad to help, Liz. I think you'll really be happy with any place that does a decent volume of work and properly maintains their equipment. Like I said, I have beautiful prints that came from a grocery store. I'd be glad to send you one for comparison - PM me if you want one. These are done on a Fuji Frontier machine - some Walmarts have them, some have Kodak I understand (from a previous thread here somewhere).

Adorama is (or at least used to be) Kodak, just like Mpix. The main difference between the different places (and Kodak vs. Fuji) is probably in the different papers offered. Mpix with their Kodak Metallic paper is really great for some subjects and looks almost like seeing a slide on a light table. Some subjects don't look good in it though - kinda like their sample shot that they will send you for free. Just like with film, find a good one and stick with them if you can.

Hey Steveo

I read this too and learned a lot from it. I'm a home-printing newbie and your description helped me understand what the #@! I am doing too :)

I don't understand, I have never had a problem getting high quality prints using factory inks and paper. I've tried non-factory papers for glossy photos and have ended up giving the paper away. Kodak paper on my printer gives a very warm tone, but I use the double sided paper but it's not for photographs is the colors are not a problem.

I've found the if you use coated or uncoated mat papers there is almost never a color problem.

I always have printed my digital prints at home, and cost wise it's about the same but I get my prints in a few minutes with out driving anyplace.

Well, my wife just went to pick up some prints today and we have a little problem. I resized and edited a few photos last night, one of which we wanted in a 5x7 and 8x10, so I had cropped photos of each for each size. She picked them up and with all the kids with her (our three and her sisters one, all 5 and under) she didn't look at them closely until she got home and got two to take a nap. It turns out they really botched our 8x10. I haven't seen it yet, but she says it looks like they printed a 4x6, scanned it, and printed the scanned 4x6 image at an 8x10, because we got an extra 4x6 of this image we didn't order. It's like they forgot to print it from the file we uploaded and to get it done did this. The picture is grainy as all hell, she needed it for something she's doing today, and she's pissed. She can't go back readily with all the kids sleeping (the other two she left awake are laying down for a nap too) and with t-ball tonight she won't be able to do it when I get home either... So, as good as the paper they are using is, or as good as their equipment may be, it still can't compensate for incompetent employees.

Just be careful...I guess in the end you pay for, but it was a $3 8x10 print?? That's not exactly cheap, is it?

BM

Qucik follow up... She just called wally world and asked what they did, and that it looked like a scanned resized photo and the technician (being polite) on the other end of the phone said "Uh huh, yup, that's what we did." Turns out they are out of 8x10 printer paper and only have the 8x10 in the copier so that's how they made our 8x10. Took the photo I sent them, printed a 4x6 (agian, having to crop for the different aspect ratio) then printing it at 8x10, losing tons of resolution, and cropping it again for the 8x10 aspect ratio. She (wallmart employee) didin't seem to think there was a problem with doing that. To the average joe schmoe consumer who doesn't know the difference of these details, would have just gotten screwed.

Now my wife is waiting to talk to the manager....yay!

BM

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bmadau

So, as good as the paper they are using is, or as good as their equipment may be, it still can't compensate for incompetent employees.

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Excellent point. I did have a problem once (can't remember what, actually) but the grocery store I use corrected it right away. I had been going in there a lot at that time so maybe that helped. Mistakes happen but what matters is how they deal with it.

I don't think your case was a mistake as much as it was an error in their judgement (from reading your second post). I have to believe that some people might get that 8x10 and think that they need a better camera... There is a risk to using places like this, but I try to make everything as easy and hopefully foolproof as possible by making my own files to fit the print size. So far it's worked well for me.

PS - $3 isn't too bad, but I think locally it's just under $2. I've heard (but haven't seen the proof) that paper and ink for an 8x10 is worth about $2 for the inkjets or dye subs that most people (individual photographers) are using.

That's foul.

BTW... they price match, just bring an ad/coupon.

I hope they do right by you, it's a shame some ruin it for the rest.

Actually prints are becoming less necessary. In journalism and for some magazines, as well as for web sites and digital presentations, prints are often not required. Weddings and professional portraits are perhaps the two most common print areas, although my large professional portrait was done by my daughter on canvas with paint. She is, of course more an artist than a photographer by training and experience.

Ronnoco

Quote:

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Originally Posted by another view

Excellent point. I did have a problem once (can't remember what, actually) but the grocery store I use corrected it right away. I had been going in there a lot at that time so maybe that helped. Mistakes happen but what matters is how they deal with it.

I don't think your case was a mistake as much as it was an error in their judgement (from reading your second post). I have to believe that some people might get that 8x10 and think that they need a better camera... There is a risk to using places like this, but I try to make everything as easy and hopefully foolproof as possible by making my own files to fit the print size. So far it's worked well for me.

PS - $3 isn't too bad, but I think locally it's just under $2. I've heard (but haven't seen the proof) that paper and ink for an 8x10 is worth about $2 for the inkjets or dye subs that most people (individual photographers) are using.

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My local CVS charges $4.99 for a bad 5x7 printed on an Epson inkjet. When I was printing my own stuff, I did some family calendars and it cost around $3 per 8 1/2 x 11 sheet using good paper.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lava Lamp

My local CVS charges $4.99 for a bad 5x7 printed on an Epson inkjet. When I was printing my own stuff, I did some family calendars and it cost around $3 per 8 1/2 x 11 sheet using good paper.

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Wow! You can get a 5x7 at Walmart for less than $1.00. Quality depends on who is doing it and which machine (they have 2) they use.

Liz

They printed the 4x6 on matte paper, so when they scanned it to reprint it at 8x10, it picked up the texture of the matte paper making the 8x10 on glossy look textured and grainy.

BM

To Crop from the 8 x12 full frame to 8 by 10 crop I just loal the image into photoshop and do a image resize (without resampling) to 8 inch wide or tall. Then I look at the image DPI and then create a new 8 by 10 inch image at that DPI. Then I just copy the orignal and paste the image into the new image. You can move the image around for the best crop. (this workes in all version of photoshop)

Hello Liz,

I started to do my own printing in july 2005 and never looked back since then. I use an HP Photosmart 8750 and my monitor is calibrated with the Monaco Optix XR package. In my view, the quality that I now get exceed anything that pro labs ever gave me by a comfortable margin because I get the colors, the depth and the sharpness that I want but there is a learning curve. I have been experimenting to get a good feel of the whole process.
That being said, I am not into volume. I never print smaller than 7x10 and I do quite a lot of 8x12 and 11x14. I am more into a slow paced, portfolio production. My printer serve me superbly well for that purpose.
However, I think that it would be hard to justify getting a printer if you mostly need 4x6 prints and that you are into volume. A lab will always ends up being cheaper and less time consuming than doing it by yourself in that context.

regards

Seb

Thanks Seb,

Yes, I don't do many larger prints, so it's probably not worth it. BTW, how much can you get decent monitor calibration software for? If I recall, the good stuff is quite expensive.

I do a lot of photography for friends and they only want larger prints once in a while and for those, I wouldn't use Walmart or other el cheapo places, but a good photo lab. There is a Kodak lab not too far, and I'm going to check them out again. I haven't used them for about 2 years, and at that time they didn't do digital. Hmmmmmmm....must have caught up by now.

Thanks Seb.

Liz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seb

Hello Liz,

I started to do my own printing in july 2005 and never looked back since then. I use an HP Photosmart 8750 and my monitor is calibrated with the Monaco Optix XR package. In my view, the quality that I now get exceed anything that pro labs ever gave me by a comfortable margin because I get the colors, the depth and the sharpness that I want but there is a learning curve. I have been experimenting to get a good feel of the whole process.
That being said, I am not into volume. I never print smaller than 7x10 and I do quite a lot of 8x12 and 11x14. I am more into a slow paced, portfolio production. My printer serve me superbly well for that purpose.
However, I think that it would be hard to justify getting a printer if you mostly need 4x6 prints and that you are into volume. A lab will always ends up being cheaper and less time consuming than doing it by yourself in that context.

regards

Seb

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