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  1. #26
    mooo...wooh hoooh! schrackman's Avatar
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    Re: Post #800 - Mountains and Philosophy

    Quote Originally Posted by magoo
    what amazes me is how all this matter in the universe, the mass of the earth, the sun, the moons in all galaxys could have fit into something the size of the head of a pin. I would love for science to find out what is outside of the universe. The universe is expanding but into what? is there a universe outside of ours that will mesh together with ours. If we only use 10% of our brain, what would be like if we used the other 90%. are there other states of the mind? The bright light when we die, chemical reaction (even though there is no electrical activity) causing us to see that or our soul transcending somewhere else. If doing an internet search for "proof of god" there is so much crap to read through, so much off the wall theories but we never will know until we go. have fun while your here, we aren't getting out alive.

    Magoo
    Waxing on the spiritual here for a moment...

    Magoo, I'm not sure why you have assumed that in this lifetime we cannot come to know whether or not there is a God and, in connection with that, come to know who God really is? Also, if you are unsure about God's existence at this point in your life, don't you think it is just a little bit presumption to then make a statement about what one should do with his life before leaving it? I'm not trying to razzle you or anything, I'm just trying to analyze your statements and perhaps stimulate minds to think a little deeper.

    And now, waxing on to the physical...

    Rick, there are many mysteries about our planet and universe, the electrical field that you spoke of is just one of them. I'm sure mankind has only scratched the surface, and it is fascinating to inquire and learn about it.

    But I am persuaed that the physical realm is just that...physical, not spiritual. The physical can, sometimes, lead one to understand that there is a spiritual origin behind the physical creation, such as when the Bible states that the "heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament showeth his handiwork," but I really don't believe there is anything spiritual per se about a rock, tree, mountain or stream, in and of itself. Granted, the physical realm can bring us many joys by virtue of its beauty, or stimulate the mind by virtue of its complexity. In fact, I read somewhere (can't remember where) that a running creek discharges some sort of electrical pulse or charge or something like that and our brains receive it as a kind of relaxing mechanism. Think about that next time you sit along the banks of a stream with your fishing pole in the water. No wonder I used to be able to do that for hours on end and not even mind that I didn't catch any fish, LOL.

    Ray

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  2. #27
    Viewfinder and Off-Topic Co-Mod walterick's Avatar
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    Re: Post #800 - Mountains and Philosophy

    Hey Shrack,

    I agree with you that the physical realm is indeed very fun to play in It's like I read once: why would "god" have given us the toys if he did not mean for us to play with them? But I disagree that the physical realm is not spiritual. To loosely reference your Bible, did not God create all of the heavens and the earth? Would not any of God's creations be pretty danged spiritual? I think the challenge is not in separating the physical from the spiritual, but seeing them as one. I feel that's the moment that the veil of illusion has been lifted and we see everything as "God," or "one." I think that's the way "God" would want it.

    Ray, it saddens me to hear you say "I really don't believe there is anything spiritual per se about a rock, tree, mountain or stream..." I think you have rattled off a list of my favorite spiritual places

    With all respect; just my early morning thoughts.
    Rick
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  3. #28
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    Re: Post #800 - Mountains and Philosophy

    Well, the reason that I believe that we won't be able to prove or disprove god in our lifetime is that the only way I know of now to possibly meet him is to die. If god is in another dimension we won't be able to reach it in our physical body because our body cannot transcend to other dimensions. To me I would think that to be able to prove there is a god we would have to over come a few issues. In the bible God can transcend time, is everywhere at all times, etc, etc. At this point in time we have made it to the moon a couple times, we don't know what dark matter is or whether it exsists, we don't even know what gravity is or how it is created. To me one of the most important things to discover god would to be able to travel at the speed of light. At this point it is impossible with no light at the end of the tunnel. Theory is that at the speed of light time stands still, maybe something else can happen but we won't know till we get there. The more we learn and more advanced we become we discover that there is still more out there that needs to be solved. God isn't supposed to be known, isn't supposed to be discovered. He isn't something physical that we can see, touch, explore. The story about the tower of Babel, where man was so advanced and were able to build a tower so high that they would be able to see God was destroyed by God because he didn't want us to see him until he was ready. You have to rely on your faith no harm in that. As far as my spiritual advise, I just feel life would be more enjoyable if you had fun and didn't take things so seriously. In the end we will still die. I sure wouldn't want to live my life always depressed, moody and angry at the world, to me that is a waste but that is just me.


    Magoo

  4. #29
    Liz
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    Cool Re: Post #800 - Mountains and Philosophy

    I sure wouldn't want to live my life always depressed, moody and angry at the world, to me that is a waste but that is just me.

    Great words of wisdom! Nice thought for the day.

    Liz

  5. #30
    Viewfinder and Off-Topic Co-Mod walterick's Avatar
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    Re: Post #800 - Mountains and Philosophy

    Hey Magoo,

    I'm supposing we have very different conceptualizations of what god is ;) I don't think that god is unapproachable, unobtainable, invisible, unreachable, or somewhere we're not. That's the western, phsical way of looking at god. A more mystical, eastern way is to say that god is everywhere, everything, and the only thing separating you from god is... you! I believe the Hindu concept of maya or illusion is what divides us from our creator. Not physical law. It saddens me to think that we're alone and separate from god here on earth. Haven't we all been told "heaven is a place on earth?" It's like that chalk drawing that's on the sidealk on your way to work. It's always been there, you've just been too busy to see it. Then, one day, you notice it. There it was, the entire time. You were just too busy to see That's how I think of god for most of us. Right here, yet, invisible.

    Now that's a lot to say, having never "met" a god myself. But I don't think of god as a human being, or an animal so I don't think there's a "thing" there to meet. I think of "knowing" god as in the sense of "understaing godliness" and then beginning to incorporate those principles of godliness into our own lives. Spiritual teachers have said this from the beginning. Did not Jesus say, "Why act you so amazed? What I do now, ye shall do, and more!" I think divinity is not something to be afraid of, but to look forward to as the ultimate state of being

    That's all simply personal belief based on my reading and thinking, the experiences I've had and what's in my heart. I fully respect everyone else's thoughts and experiences of what their god is. Hey, there's enough "god" for everyone to have their own piece! ;) (jk)

    This has been a great discussion Thanks everyone for remaining civil!

    Rick
    Walter Rick Long
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  6. #31
    Co-Moderator, Photography as Art forum megan's Avatar
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    Mountains and Philosophy (rambling answer)

    "Are friends electric?" (Gary Numan)

    Interesting ramble. I've always been fascinated with the gold "plates" behind people's heads in early painting. Medieval and Renaissance periods are my favorite eras for painting (as well as the Pre-Raphaelites.) Sometimes you can "sense" people's energy, I think, and I also think that's why the internet fails so awfully at times at interpersonal communications. It's not just expressive nuance lost, it's something more primal, instinctual - you lack the exchange of personal energy. There's this white-haired man at B&H where you pick up your bags, and I love seeing him, because he's got such a *feeling* around him. Hm.

    But - can we photograph this?

    Regarding your footer about women - you should check out this book "When She Was Bad" sometime. It's about the misperceptions that women don't kill people unless in self defense.

    Megan

  7. #32
    Viewfinder and Off-Topic Co-Mod walterick's Avatar
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    Re: Mountains and Philosophy (rambling answer)

    Hey Megs

    "Sometimes you can "sense" people's energy, I think, and I also think that's why the internet fails so awfully at times at interpersonal communications."

    I agree. I realized some time ago that if I write normally on this discussion board and don't add enough 's 's 's and ;) 's in my messages I get taken waaaay too seriously! It's not that I'm writing seriously, it's that I can't use my facial features, tone of voice, and... dare I say... aura to help convey the humor of whatever I'm writing. That's a good point.

    "There's this white-haired man at B&H where you pick up your bags, and I love seeing him, because he's got such a *feeling* around him."

    I love people like that. I want to be one

    But - can we photograph this?

    Megan, what is your personal take on the Kirlian photography discussed previously in this thread? I'm interested in your opinion on that.

    "When She Was Bad"

    ... you mean... women aren't all sweet innocent creatures? - shocked - I guess there's an exception to every rule. Of course women also commit atrocities. It seems to me like it is in their nature not to and it is only when backed against a wall emotionally that they will kill - not out of defending their own life so much, but out of a survival instinct? I see pictures of mothers dumping their kids in a trashcan, not because they have a desire to kill so much as they can't take it anymore. That kind of thing. In writing that question I was hoping to separate the man's seeming innate desire to kill versus the woman's seeming innate desire to nuture. Does it seem like it's just men out killing everyone and commiting acts of violence? Or is that a stereotype?

    Interesting concept for discussion. I'll look for that book online.

    Rick
    Walter Rick Long
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  8. #33
    mooo...wooh hoooh! schrackman's Avatar
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    Re: Post #800 - Mountains and Philosophy

    Quote Originally Posted by walterick
    Hey Shrack,

    I agree with you that the physical realm is indeed very fun to play in It's like I read once: why would "god" have given us the toys if he did not mean for us to play with them? But I disagree that the physical realm is not spiritual. To loosely reference your Bible, did not God create all of the heavens and the earth? Would not any of God's creations be pretty danged spiritual? I think the challenge is not in separating the physical from the spiritual, but seeing them as one. I feel that's the moment that the veil of illusion has been lifted and we see everything as "God," or "one." I think that's the way "God" would want it.
    Hi Rick,

    Yes, the Bible does say that God created the heavens and earth, and everything therein. But you have to understand that the Bible also separates the spiritual from the physical, and in fact condemns those who would worship the natural realm as if it is divine itself (see Romans 1 for example). This is because God demands worship of himself, as the Creator, and not the things he created, which to him would amount to idolatry.

    It's interesting that throughout the entire Bible not once does it mention that God loves the plants, trees, mountains, etc., for all these things will pass away with time, but it does state that mankind is the special object of his love on account of the fact that he is the only creature created in the image of God himself, having a soul that is eternal. It is of no coincidence, therefore, that the Bible emphasizes the need for man's redemption through Jesus Christ, in order that the image of God in man might be renewed so that man would live in accordance with the Creator's purpose for life, which is to reflect God's own nature and character through living in accordance to his ways.

    While nature is a beautiful thing, and obviously designed for us to enjoy, the Bible's view is that it is not to be elevated above it's purpose, which purpose is to serve the physical needs of man who is bound to live his life on earth in a physical body. For me, a Christian, this not only seems the most reasonable, but also the most practical, view about life simply because it puts emphasis on what is truly important: loving God with all your heart, soul and mind, and then loving your neighbor as yourself. What a wonderful world this would be if everyone followed this truly divine axiom.

    Ray, it saddens me to hear you say "I really don't believe there is anything spiritual per se about a rock, tree, mountain or stream..." I think you have rattled off a list of my favorite spiritual places
    lol...sorry to disappoint you! You can still enjoy those places, though, I don't think God would mind. In fact, my favorite spot since I was a kid has been up in the Sierra Mountains in California in a little, almost forgotten late 1800's gold town with a population of 35 called La Porte. I still go there at least once a year for a few days to "unwind" from L.A. If I had my way, I'd be living up there for sure.

    Talk to ya later,

    Ray

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  9. #34
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    Re: Post #800 - Mountains and Philosophy

    Quote Originally Posted by walterick
    Magoo,

    That's very interesting about light being the 5th dimension. I had never considered that...

    Ah, the existence of god. Such a conundrum! I find that the problem shifts to a much simpler one when you simply begin defining what god is before you start deciding whether he/she/it exists! But that's a whole other conversation!

    I heard that the universe is accelerating. I forgot about that. That's bad news for folks like me who want to think it's going to collapse again some day. What I meant by mentoining the mass in the universe causing it to recollapse is I thought that the recollapse is contingent upon there being enough gravity (whatever that is!) between things to cause it all to come back together!

    For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. And matter and energy can neither be created nor destroyed. Therefore there must be an equal reaction to the Big Bang (the Big Shrink?) And all this energy and matter all around us must have come from somewhere.

    What was it before it was the universe?

    Rick
    Hey Rick! No, I have not read your entire post... just popping in to say howdy. I had dinner with Photo John last night and of course you and all the other great folks we know from PR were discussed. ;) I hope you are doing well. Ya gonna be in CO any time soon.... I do have a guest room you know.

    Happy Holidays!
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  10. #35
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    Re: Post #800 - Mountains and Philosophy

    geesh ... this is pathathic..... I only have one post on this version of the software. Oh well... I need to look up some of Hodgy's stuff and Sandee's and all the rest of the CO gathering gang.
    www.TreatsForTroops.com

  11. #36
    Viewfinder and Off-Topic Co-Mod walterick's Avatar
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    Re: Post #800 - Mountains and Philosophy

    GOOD GOD WOMAN!!

    I was thinking about you the other day! I thought you had left us ages ago! So is this the kind of thread I need to write in order to get you out?

    Yeah, look up Sandee and get Hans back up here too! Are you still in touch with him? I've wondered about him recently as well.

    My body will return to Colorado one of these days! Glad to hear I'll have a place to stay!

    Hope all is well and a happy holiday!

    Go post some more, original members like you should be slanted 100 posts just for posterity's sake ;)

    Rick
    Walter Rick Long
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  12. #37
    Viewfinder and Off-Topic Co-Mod walterick's Avatar
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    Re: Post #800 - Mountains and Philosophy

    Hey Ray

    I'm sure this discussion could go on forever

    I am not a Christian so I do not share your belief in the Bible or Jesus Christ. Are they wonderful? Yes (well... the Bible gets a little kooky sometimes... but...) Are they the center of my spirituality? Nope. Nor is the natural world, by the way. I guess I figure spirituality should be centered on spirit, which is a highly subjective term, I know. But I know we all understand it in our hearts. A spirit to me - like you - is the eternal part of ourselves. The body passes, the mind changes, the soul is forever.

    A couple of things you wrote confused me. I know you are a minister so I am hoping to gleam a better understanding of Christianity through this discussion. If it gets too painful, I'll stop. I tend to ask lots of questions.

    "But you have to understand that the Bible... in fact condemns those who would worship the natural realm as if it is divine itself. This is because God demands worship of himself, as the Creator, and not the things he created, which to him would amount to idolatry."

    Hmm, so many things I do not understand. If god is perfect and loving, why does he condemn people? Why does he not love his own creation, the natural world? Why does he demand the worship of himself? Why does he create us as imperfect and then demand we be perfect?

    You say later "in order that the image of God in man might be renewed so that man would live in accordance with the Creator's purpose for life, which is to reflect God's own nature and character through living in accordance to his ways." Now, I may be confused, but we're supposed to be like god? Which means; 1.) not worshipping nature. 2.) condemning everyone that does. 3.) demanding that we're worshipped as a god. I don't think people would like me much of I started to act like the Biblical God

    Another:
    "It's interesting that throughout the entire Bible not once does it mention that God loves the plants, trees, mountains, etc., for all these things will pass away with time,"

    It sounds to me like you're saying "god doesn't love nature becasue it passes away with time." I hope that's not correct, because everything passes away with time. Which means the Christian God loves only our souls? Nothing else?

    "but it does state that mankind is the special object of his love on account of the fact that he is the only creature created in the image of God himself, having a soul that is eternal."

    Curious - does the Bible way that animals do not have souls? Is there an official church position on this? I think they do have souls. I think everyone else thinks they do too.

    "It is of no coincidence, therefore, that the Bible emphasizes the need for man's redemption through Jesus Christ, in order that the image of God in man might be renewed so that man would live in accordance with the Creator's purpose for life, which is to reflect God's own nature and character through living in accordance to his ways."

    Phew! I like that you can talk like that! LOL I don't understand why we have to be saved through Jesus. Jesus wasn't perfect. He drank alcohol and through temper tantrums just like the rest of us! I think the mistake we make is in saying that Jesus is somehow above us like he's something we're not, but should try really hard to be. I think his message was the opposite! See me not as a god, but as yourself. Believe that in time, what I do now, ye shall do. And more! It's like saying, "everyone born before Jesus went to hell, where they are burning in agony because of their crappy timing. Everyone who lives anywhere where there's not a Christian church is probably going to hell, too. Because they never learned about Jesus! Oh, and the Lord Buddha? Yeah, he went too! In fact, everyone who does not accept the spirit of Jesus into their heart (roughly 66% of the human population?) is going to burn!" I don't understand what's so "godly" about burning people's souls because they didn't accept the soul of his son into their hearts.

    I don't know. I don't mean to pick. I just think that there's a lot I don't understand about the Christian faith. Maybe you can help? Maybe I should take my questions elsewhere (off the board.)

    Thanks for playing
    Rick


    ps: "loving God with all your heart, soul and mind, and then loving your neighbor as yourself. What a wonderful world this would be if everyone followed this truly divine axiom."

    I agree
    Walter Rick Long
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  13. #38
    mooo...wooh hoooh! schrackman's Avatar
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    Re: Post #800 - Mountains and Philosophy

    hi Rick,

    ah, so many questions...it's a good thing I like answering questions!

    I'll get back to you tomorrow...right now I've got to hit the sack!

    Ray

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    Re: Post #800 - Mountains and Philosophy

    Quote Originally Posted by walterick
    GOOD GOD WOMAN!!

    I was thinking about you the other day! I thought you had left us ages ago! So is this the kind of thread I need to write in order to get you out?

    Yeah, look up Sandee and get Hans back up here too! Are you still in touch with him? I've wondered about him recently as well.

    My body will return to Colorado one of these days! Glad to hear I'll have a place to stay!

    Hope all is well and a happy holiday!

    Go post some more, original members like you should be slanted 100 posts just for posterity's sake ;)

    Rick

    Yeah, that's it, they should just give me at least 100 posts. I see Hans now and then and talk to him a bit more often.

    No, on the thread question... it was PJ contacting me for dinner that brought me out of the woodwork.

    I will probably just slink back into it though cause I am running a business now and it is all consuming, especially at the holidays. The only photography I get to do any more is product photos. I may stop in during 1st quarter for info on a small studio setup. I have just been using natural light and of course that has it's limitations.

    Take care of yourself.

    Deborah
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  15. #40
    Viewfinder and Off-Topic Co-Mod walterick's Avatar
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    Re: Post #800 - Mountains and Philosophy

    Hey Deborah

    I can appreciate being busy both due to the holidays and also due to running a business... Owning a small business is the most difficult and rewarding way to earn a living

    Glad to hear you're well and that you still are in touch with Hans. Tell him to get his little tail up here ever once in a while!

    Take care yourself! Glad you were back for a bit.
    Rick
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  16. #41
    Viewfinder and Off-Topic Co-Mod walterick's Avatar
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    Re: Post #800 - Mountains and Philosophy

    Hey Shrack,

    What do you say we take this to PM? Just out of respect for the board.

    Rick
    Walter Rick Long
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  17. #42
    mooo...wooh hoooh! schrackman's Avatar
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    Re: Post #800 - Mountains and Philosophy

    Hey Rick,

    Check your email. By the way, you can reply to my email at schrackman@earthlink.net

    Ray

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  18. #43
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    Re: Post #800 - Mountains and Philosophy

    Getting in late on this discussion...

    Supposedly, there are spots near Sedona, AZ, where the earth's electromagnetic field forms a "vortex." People claim to have experienced some sort of spiritual experience when standing in them. Or maybe it's just the kinds of people who go to Sedona seeking vortices to stand in...

    Vortices notwithstanding, I think the reason we react as we do to mountains is psychological: They're so obviously vast; this in-your-face vastness makes it difficult not to believe that there is something out there bigger than all of us and bigger than the sum of its parts. Some of us choose to call that thing God. Some of us perceive the experience as a religous one.

    Albert Einstein was a deeply religious man. And a violin virtuoso.

    A chemical reaction is, fundamentally, an electrical one among sub-atomic particles. And nerve impulses - electrical - travel down a nerve fiber by means of a chemical reaction that opens "protein channels" along the nerve cell membranes, allowing a temporary unbalancing of calcium, sodium, and potassium ions.

    Strictly and plainly speaking, "light" is an electromagnetic field whose frequency is within the range we humans perceive visually. We perceive frequencies below that range ("infrared") as heat, and do not perceive higher ones ("ultraviolet").

    According to principles of modern physics, everything has both matter and energy (or "wave") characteristics. At low speeds, matter characteristics are more prevalent. At high speeds, energy characteristics are more prevalent. (Generally, the line between "slow" and "fast" is drawn at one tenth the speed of light.) Classical physics speaks of conservation of matter and conservation of energy. Modern physics speaks of conservation of matter/energy together, and transitions between the matter state and energy state are possible. The amount of energy vs. matter contained in an entity is related by the formula E = mc^2 (E = amount of energy, m = amount of matter, c = speed of light). (Really, there's a gamma factor in there as well, which brings time into the equation.)

    A dimension, strictly speaking, is basically a factor in a mathematical equation. Classical physics describes objects and motion in terms of length, width, and height. Those are three dimensions. Modern physics states that perceived length (or width or height) depends on speed ("length contraction"); speed is related to time. And time perception depends on speed as well ("time dilation"). So, time enters the equations in a big way - so now there are four dimensions in the equations. Measuring more exotic universal phenomena may involve additional factors in the equations, i.e., additional dimensions.

    I grew up in NYC, and turned out very urban. Then I spent some time in Northern California - but remained very urban. Then I moved to Colorado - and that's when the mountains began calling to me, almost literally. I ended up deciding that the big-city Northeast is the place for me after all, and moved to the Boston area - but head out to the New England Appalachians periodically to reconnect with what I had found in Colorado.

    My cats give me something that I don't think any human can give indefinitely: Unconditional, unquestioning, complete, constant love. This is true love in its purest sense.

    - Yaron
    Last edited by yaronsh; 12-21-2004 at 12:24 AM. Reason: iconified the smiley face
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  19. #44
    Co-Moderator, Photography as Art forum megan's Avatar
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    Re: Mountains and Philosophy (rambling answer)

    Quote Originally Posted by walterick
    It seems to me like it is in their nature not to and it is only when backed against a wall emotionally that they will kill - not out of defending their own life so much, but out of a survival instinct? ......Or is that a stereotype?
    Stereotype, and sadly, the most recent headlines prove that. The woman who murdered the other woman in the midwest US for her baby is proof. Yes, I'm sure there is mental illness involved, but.... when do we stop blaming everything except the person with blood on their hands?

    Barring mental illness, I submit to you - Black Widows. They marry rich men, use 'em up, and find a way to kill 'em and move on.

    Thing is, since women in general can be physically less powerful than men [extreme generalization here, I had a lightweight try to knock me out in the ring because he thought I was hitting him too hard and trying to knock HIM out, yet I was hardly punching], and our socialization regarding violence has traditionally been different than male's, you'll find that much more often, women will hire someone to do the deed.

    Interesting book, though, and if you can't find it, I'll mail you my version.

    And what is Kirlian photography?

    Megan

  20. #45
    Mamiya Man
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    Re: Post #800 - Mountains and Philosophy

    A very wise man and a great musician wrote this

    Don't ever trust a woman, until she's dead and buried
    Yes, don't ever trust a woman, until she's dead and buried
    One day she'll say that she loves you and the next day she'll throw you in the street

    She'll smother you with kisses, when her birthday comes around
    But soon as she gets her presents, she'll down talk you all over over town
    No, don't ever trust a woman, until she's dead and buried
    One day she'll say that she loves you and the next day she'll throw you in the street

    She'll beg you for clothes and diamonds, until you're all in hock
    And then you'll come home one mornin' and your key won't fit the lock
    Don't ever trust a woman, until she's dead and buried
    Well, one day she'll say that she loves you, the next day she'll throw you in the street

    She'll call you every mornin', every mornin', noon and night
    She'll call you in between times, just to see if you're doin' alright
    She'll ask to borrow five and then she'll beg for ten
    And baby that five and ten, you won't ever see again!

    Man, don't ever trust a woman, man, until she's dead and buried
    One day she'll say that she loves you and the next day she'll throw you in the street



    written and performed by B.B. King

  21. #46
    Viewfinder and Off-Topic Co-Mod walterick's Avatar
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    Re: Mountains and Philosophy (rambling answer)

    I guess I would ask this:
    Socialization aside, do women commit as many violent acts as men?
    I'll still say no, but it looks like that book (I googled) has some statistics indicating otherwise.

    I'll leave myself open to facts.

    Mind, I'm not saying "women never kill people" that's naive to say the least. What I am saying is that man kill more than women, get involved with violence more than women, commit violent acts more than women, play violent games more than women, revert to violence to resolve conflict more quickly than women, have more testosterone than women, and are generally able to be typified as "more violent." But like I say, I'll leave myself open to the statistical information.

    Interesting book, though, and if you can't find it, I'll mail you my version.

    Megan, I would take you up on that offer if I weren't the slowest reader in the western hemisphere and already looking at a stack of loner books a foot high That's not a no, just a "later." I did read the surmise of it online and it sounded fascinating. If I were to go looking for that "statistical data" I would start there.

    And what is Kirlian photography?

    A kind of photography using some sort of electrical coil in the camera to produce an eerey (how do you spell that?!) glow around the subject. It is often written as "proof" of the electric field around people and things. Somewhere in this thread there is a link to a "skeptic's site" that suggests otherwise. Either way, it's pretty!

    Here's the "believer's" links:
    http://www.kirlian.org/kirlian.htm
    http://www.crystalinks.com/kirlian.html

    Heres "the skeptic's" link:
    http://skepdic.com/kirlian.html

    Rick
    Walter Rick Long
    Nikon Samurai, Mamiya Master, Velvia Bandit


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