Help: Rule of thirds - overkill

I was looking at my gallery and I feel my photography has become predictable. I'll be shooting an event next week and I would like to use it to exercise different techniques. Can anyone provide some therapy in expanding my shooting style?

http://gallery.photographyreview.com...mem_cop600.jpg

http://gallery.photographyreview.com...0/IMG_5827.JPG

http://gallery.photographyreview.com...9688_a_640.jpg


My Gallery

Thanks.

Judging by these three examples, you know the rule pretty well. :) But that's good - as a jazz drummer told me, you need to learn the rules before you can break them. Shooting events is stressful enough without trying to force a new a new technique on yourself. If you were hired to do this, then someone likes what you shoot.

But - I think I'd shoot what you were expected (so to speak) to shoot, and then after I was sure I had everything I needed I'd try some different things. Different angles. Stand on a chair. Lay on the ground (easy for me to say). Get up close with a really wide lens. Angle the camera. Etc.

Change your medium or your format.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by another view

Judging by these three examples, you know the rule pretty well. :) But that's good - as a jazz drummer told me, you need to learn the rules before you can break them. Shooting events is stressful enough without trying to force a new a new technique on yourself. If you were hired to do this, then someone likes what you shoot.

---

Yeah...maybe too well :)

I'm shooting the event for free but it's a pretty good event in which the photos should add plenty to my port. It's at a museum honoring a jazz artist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by another view

But - I think I'd shoot what you were expected (so to speak) to shoot, and then after I was sure I had everything I needed I'd try some different things. Different angles. Stand on a chair. Lay on the ground (easy for me to say). Get up close with a really wide lens. Angle the camera. Etc.

---

I'll keep that in mind. I hope I won't fall of the chair during a speech :)

I've been concerned with my use of close wide angle as well. It has a nice effect but I think I'm not using at the right time. There are times it's worth distorting the subject and times I tell myself, "I distorted the subject!"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MB1

Change your medium or your format.

---

Really? You mean move to medium format cameras?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by manacsa

Really? You mean move to medium format cameras?

---

Sure, you can get a Holga dirt cheap and it will force you to look at things a lot differently because of the frame shape. Or you could just shoot everything as a square or panoramic planning on cropping the images later.

how about leading lines and symmetry?

Just a few thoughts........

It's always good to experiment. On the other hand, it's good to make the customer happy.

I would do both. I would get those shots that your friend expects - your "old" style so to speak. However, you could do some experimenting in between the acts. Think ahead as to what you'd like to accomplish that would be new and different.....break a few rules. Try different angles, lighting, blur. Check out (google) websites of jazz musicians, etc - see what images might inspire you. I always get ideas when I google different websites of interesting topics.

Liz

another view offered very good advice.

manacsa - maybe I'm reading too much into it - but are you feeling uninspired or feel photography is getting too routine, mundane, tedious, or boring? I don't think you had any problems with the "rules" of photography from what I've seen of your work.

As for your upcoming gig, I like Liz's idea of looking at other people's work to get some ideas from which you can expand upon.

You might want to think vertical format when you'd usually shoot horizontal.

ha ha ha ha.!! sorry for laughing. But I can see what your problem is and how to provide a solution for your delema. I have often found, that just by reading or absorbing one sentence, has boosted me up the ladder of success so to speak.

I have absolutely no idea what the '"rule of thirds is", I have seen those words or that phrase on many photo forums.

FORGET THE RULES ! ......"LEARN TO CREATE" !!

Ansel Adams once said: There are no rules for good photographs, there are just good photographs!

I read that statement, at the end of my 40 year career in professonal photography.
I started out as a hobby, no schooling of any type.

I did something very few photographers ever accomplish..

retire @ an early age, and make oodles of money from images created almost 30 years ago, that are sold all over the world in more than 80 countries.

Now speaking stictly from a professional view.. "What do you want to accomplish with photography ? What is your end goal ?? To memorize rules and try and obey them ?

The greatest advice I can give you, no matter which lens you choose.

Fill that viewfinder with detail.

That's my "rule". That is the only rule I know.

forgive my long rant, but I hope I have you thinking. .. .. "differently" !

I do things different, I am nothing, no one, just an electrician that wanted to get out of the trade as quickly as possible, and thanks to the creative aspect of photograhpy I was able to accomplish my goal and retire.

I have had hundreds of students, I have taught in college, I have taught in professional color labs around Boston, I have been published many numerous amonts of times, in many different media.
I started making big money back in 1973, when I purchased my Mamiya RB 67

Filling that viewfinder with detail.. is all it took for people to gasp and want to see more.

I am new here, this is my first post !
but I want to impart to you, My thoughts based on What others have said about my work.

I have a very impressive list.

that is not my point. to toot my horn and I am sorry I had to bring it up. But I had to get your attention, and make you "think"!

I read one sentence 40 years ago. Fill that frame with detail.
Do you really want to learn the "Art" of composition?

Study photograhs taken by pro's in Magazines such as National Geographic, just study images, forget the words and the rules. study images. That is how I taught all of my students the "art" of composition. Not by reading, but by looking at works of art that are pleasing to the eye.

I would always ask myself one question before gently squeezing that shutter release..!

Can I sell this image?

That is all that counts, Hey, the bottom line in any company or business or venture, is how much money can you generate ?? That is the bottom line. That is what everyone is striving for.

Whether it be $$ to buy new lens or equipment or whatever, money is what makes this world "spin" because everyone is chasing after it in one manner or another.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Majik_Imaje

ha ha ha ha.!! sorry for laughing. But I can see what your problem is and how to provide a solution for your delema. I have often found, that just by reading or absorbing one sentence, has boosted me up the ladder of success so to speak.....

---

Welcome to the PR boards and thank you for your high spirited post. I'll add the perspective to the long list of things I've learned here. Thanks.



Thank to everyone else as well for their response.

Loupey -- I feel I'm not pushing myself enough and may be a bit uninspired but by no means bored :)

Liz -- I'll be studying samples of my subject right after this post and get inspired/excited. Thanks!

My rule...fill the viewfinder, it's that simple.

Try using only one lens (pick a prime lens 50, 60, or 85 (if you have those options)).

Get right up close

Don't use flash

Always keep a shallow depth of field...

I agree with Axle's recommendation. Get a prime lens. 50's are dirt cheap. Take it a step further, when you go out, shoot everything from a tripod and count to 10 before you even fire the shutter. Really take a good hard look at what you are shooting. Not that there is anything wrong with 1/3's but, in that 10 seconds, if you notice you are falling into that rule again, try and compose your subject differently. Get creative with it. You will be amazed how much more you actually look at what you are shooting when using a prime and a tripod. Don't forget though, HAVE FUN WITH IT!

Aaron

Weeellll....if you are shooting for hire, you need to shoot what sells (as was stated) and if you were hired, it's because they like your style. So you need to to give them what they are paying for (even if they aren't paying)

That's not to say that you can't shoot differently as well, but don't go into a big event looking to re-create your style. Do that on your own time. Step outside your comfort zone. Shoot wildlife all the time? Try some architecture. Shoot portraits? Try some landscape. Changing your subject matter is going to make you think. But don't do it on someone else's dime. :D

Thanks for the additional words of advice. It's just like playing poker, stop and think before I make my move otherwise my initial "instincts" may appear repeatative. I also enjoy using primes. I was using a 50 /1.8 the other weekend for a kids birthday, no flash either.

I promise to behave during the shoot next week :) Thanks.

Here is a shot from the kids party....once again......very rule of third'ish.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by manacsa

It's at a museum honoring a jazz artist.

---

Any stage lighting involved during a performance? Some of the best concert shots I've seen have been almost completely black, with the highlights exposed at about normal or +1 and measured with a spot meter. At least I think that's how it's done, and how I'd try to do it. This way you only really see the highlights. Sebastian has some shots like this. I haven't done any concert photography in a while, but want to try that technique myself.

Of course you'll need the camera on manual mode and need a spot meter, but it should be easy to shoot; the shutter speeds should be fast enough to easily be handheld. If you don't have a spot meter, experimenting with an exposure compensation of -2 or -3 might do it, or at least close. However, with that technique it's probably as much a matter of luck.

Like any technique (including rule of thirds or a fisheye lens), it can be overused. A shot or two like this that really works would probably work out great in a collection of images from that event. Again, something to possibly try after the "paying the rent" shots - even if it is a gratis shoot. Just an idea...

I think I might be unofficially barred from commenting on this subject...

Manacsa,

go for mood. If that involves the "rule" of thirds, then use it, but don't be afraid to screw it in favor of getting some feeling across.

As others have stated, you must learn the rules to know when to break them. But I see one rule you have forgotten: let the subject guide the eye into the image. The policeman in photo #1 leads your eye out of the frame. If you had shot the image with him on the left looking "into" the frame it would have been much more effective. The other two pics do this.

Also, already mentioned, but should be emphasized: Try different aspect ratios. Try verticals, try square, try custom sizes using your photo editor. You are not limited by old fashioned paper sizes or the size of your sensor.

If it were me, I might approach the event with a photojournalist's eye. Get the story in the faces and the movements. Up close and personal, one subject strongly in the shot telling a story. Who What Where When Why and How. Why is that policeman there? What are the children looking at? Where is the bird in relation to the rest of the world? Who is the jazz singer to the audience?

Thanks for all the additional words of advice. It's good to be reminded of thing that you've learned in the past. 2008 will be a rigorous year of photo/video projects so I totally thank you for the support. I'll be exercising the creative muscles lots this year and all will fall into play.

AV....I'm preparing for the shoot. I have a 85mm f1.8 and a 24-70 f/2.8. I'm hoping to use the 85mm during the performance and the 24-70 during the reception. If the 85mm won't reach I'm stuck with either the 24-70 or the dreaded 70-200 f/2.8. Either way I don't think 400ISO will cut it. I'll need to bump it up for a hand holdable shutter. Loupey is probably saying in his head "I told you to get IS!!" BTW, the Canon 30D has a spot meter and see how that works out for me. I'll test a bit at home.

I'll post some photos after the shoot and see if any jazz will recognize the honoree.

Seb, Michael, and opus, thanks.

I dug this up, might be helpful.

http://forums.photographyreview.com/...ad.php?t=38271

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sebastian

I dug this up, might be helpful.

http://forums.photographyreview.com/...ad.php?t=38271

---

Very helpful indeed. 1600ISO! Oh boy....my only NR software is the one that comes with in the Canon software. It has done ok for me in the past.

Oh yeah....I guess no monopod either but with 1600, I shouldn't need it.

I watched a wedding photog run around all day with a 28-300 L IS with his 1DMkII (with flash and bracket). I was impressed....no support at all.

Who cares, it's only noise. The only people that ever complain about noise in my photos are photographers. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sebastian

Who cares, it's only noise. The only people tat ever complain about noise in my photos are photographers. :)

---

I find it's more technofiles who complain about noise.