Exciting 20d discovery

Well, okay, at least for me.

In my limited experience with Canon dslr's, shooting in b&w is not an option (true for the 10d and rebel, not sure about the others).

Well, in looking thru the manual this morning, I discoverd the 20d DOES shoot in black and white. Not only that, but you can adjust the black and white settings to give you a "filtered" look. As if you were using filters on your lens. AND, you can adjust the toning, sepia, blue, and a few others.

I'm such a dork! I was so excited, I called my right away and was like hysterical on the phone. My husband is working from home today, so I couldn't get on the computer and share with anyone who could appreciate it. I told my mom right away she had to act excited, which she did.

Ahhh, the joys of photography. This made my whole day. I'm not kidding.

adina (who's a big dork)

Adina,
See - you were meant to have this camera with your love of b&w and Sepia. I'm so happy for you.

I have a question as to how this works. I don't mean this in any way as a negative - but just a question. (I didn't realize the PUN until after I typed it). Yikes! :)

My G3 (2nd camera) has a b&w option as most of the G cameras do (point & shoot). What the G3 does is allow you to see what the picture will look like if you shoot it in b&w. I never tried it because someone (here) told me it wasn't sophisticated enough and I would get better results with PS. However with the 20D, I'm assuming it's much different. I think the 20D probably works in the same way, albeit in a much more sophisticated way, including filters and all the rest you mentioned.

My question is - how does this actually work? In other words shooting with b&w film is a whole different experience with a learning curve. How does this work with digital? Is it in any way similar to using b&w film; i.e. working with shadows, etc.?

If you don't know the answer yet - maybe someone will. I would be VERY interested in having a camera that help create b&w images.

I have always said my Rebel suits me fine - there is nothing that could tempt me about another dslr. Until I read this post.

Liz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adina

Well, okay, at least for me.

In my limited experience with Canon dslr's, shooting in b&w is not an option (true for the 10d and rebel, not sure about the others).

Well, in looking thru the manual this morning, I discoverd the 20d DOES shoot in black and white. Not only that, but you can adjust the black and white settings to give you a "filtered" look. As if you were using filters on your lens. AND, you can adjust the toning, sepia, blue, and a few others.

I'm such a dork! I was so excited, I called my right away and was like hysterical on the phone. My husband is working from home today, so I couldn't get on the computer and share with anyone who could appreciate it. I told my mom right away she had to act excited, which she did.

Ahhh, the joys of photography. This made my whole day. I'm not kidding.

adina (who's a big dork)

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why not shoot in regular color and convert to b&w or sepia or blue or whatever in post production (ie photoshop)? it would suck if you were shooting b&w and then later realized you _really_ want something in color....

The Fuji S2 has it - probably more what Liz is talking about - but I've never used it. I think it just shoots in greyscale that way (like changing the mode in Photoshop instead of using the channel mixer).

Heard of good results but I like the control from doing it later, and then I always have a color original if I want it. It might not be too bad though - I'd probably want to see some samples before I'd buy one, if that were the main reason. Better yet, bring a c/f card to the camera store and try it. Look at the images at home and decide if it's worth it or if you prefer taking the time to do it in Photoshop.

this dork is very excited for you....like reaaaaalllyyyy excited...That's so cool...anyways have a happy BW day...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mjm

why not shoot in regular color and convert to b&w or sepia or blue or whatever in post production (ie photoshop)? it would suck if you were shooting b&w and then later realized you _really_ want something in color....

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Probably 95% of what I shoot ends up black and white, so for me, that wouldn't be an issue. Very rarely (when shooting film) have I ever thought, man, I wish that was color.

As I haven't used it yet, I don't know what kind of results it would yield. But the fact that it is there is enough to excite me. I am hoping to test it out next week, hopefully Wednesday....we'll see.

adina

Adina,

As someone who shot mostly bw for MANY years, you don't have to sell me on the excitement of seeing a color scene transformed into black and white. For me it was even more of an event, as I had to process the film, wait for it to dry, cut the negs, set up the darkroom, and print the contact sheets before I could actually see the shots.

Needless to say, the anticipation was far above and beyond anything the instant gratification world of digital offers...

Still, as mjm points out, photoshop gives you an almost overwhelming amount of ways to convert a color file into bw, monochrome, duotone, or tritone images, with pinpoint control we never came close to having with bw film and a wet darkroom.

It seems to me that converting to bw in the camera would be quite limiting, especially if the color information is lost in the process.

I guess the best way to judge is for you to try it and let us know what you think...

I think the in camera B&W should be a little better than a Photoshop conversion. Most all digital cameras can only sense one of the primary colors at each pixel. The brightness for the other 2 colors is interpolated based on neighboring pixels of that color. So a high quality JPG file created by a camera has interpolated data and since the camera can work with the original sensor data it can create sharper or more accurate images.

This page describes was good for helping me understand how the sensors in digital cameras work.

Color Filter Array described

If photoshop was converting a raw file to B&W it could work as well as the camera.

Tom,

I don't know if what you say is completely accurate, but even if it is, it seems to me that the two main advantages you give to in-camera conversion, sharpness and accuracy, are very small and relatively unimportant facets of bw conversion.

First of all, the array of sharpening tools and techniques in ps can more than overcome any unsharpening that's created in a digital camera, whether the general ones when shooting color or more specific ones from bw conversion.

As for accuracy, I (and hopefully most folks that shoot bw) don't feel that that is something that's important, either. In fact, most bw conversions care little about accuracy and in fact want to interpret a scene and change its tones in as dramatic (or subtle) a way as possible.

That's one of, if not THE main reason to shoot or convert to bw in the first place.

Sorry if I'm misreading what you're trying to say. I think you make some interesting points, but if those things can thought of as slight advantages to in-camera conversion, IMO they're up against a virtual avalanche of better and much more creative options post processing in ps...