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  1. #26
    Too square to be hip. almo's Avatar
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    Re: Silence is Golden...

    I knew when I posted this that I would end up regreting it, but I was wrong. I am very pleased with the way this has gone. I think this is one of the best discussions I have seen on any board about this subject. But my friends please let me remake my point, as I think it has become somewhat murky:

    This is a man who has come to a crossroads in his life. He had a choice to make. One path led to a certain sad and drug addled end, and the other to a place of enlightenment and happiness, and in this moment, when many weak and batterd men choose to do the easy thing and continue in their wicked, hurtful ways this man stood up for change, and for right. This post was for him. It was my expression of happiness for him, and my appreciation to God for revealing himself to him. Wether or not you yourself believe in God, or not doesn't really matter. This is for Brian Welch, not for us. I for one wish him many blessings in his new faith. I would hope that we could all join in that sentiment. Lets not debate who, or what, or even if God is, and instaed let us all rejoyce in the "new life" of this "new man".

    almo
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  2. #27
    Liz
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    Re: ex-Korn guitarist finds God!

    Trevor,

    Thanks for sharing your beliefs. It is refreshing to find someone who sees the good religion does for people, even though you don't personally believe in God.

    I'm always waiting for the day where something drastic changes my mind about things.....it'd be soooo much easier believing that there was something after death.[/

    I hope you find that day. And I'll say a prayer you do.

    Liz

  3. #28
    Captain of the Ship Photo-John's Avatar
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    Is It Time?

    For an Off-Topic forum?

    Religion and politics are almost impossible for most of us to discuss rationally and calmly. Sometimes adding a forum specifically for these topics is the right thing to do.
    Photo-John

    Your reviews are the foundation of this site - Write A Review!

  4. #29
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    Re: Is It Time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Photo-John
    For an Off-Topic forum?

    Religion and politics are almost impossible for most of us to discuss rationally and calmly. Sometimes adding a forum specifically for these topics is the right thing to do.
    That might be a pretty good idea. Although, I must admit that ever since the last time I blew up about a thread like this and was explained to that it was okay I actually kind of enjoy them now. But I haven't forgotten how frustrated I was about it before I changed my mind about things.

    Liz,
    Thanks, I appreciate that!

    Almo,
    Your original point was lost in me. Thanks for reiterating. I'll join you in his celebration

  5. #30
    Liz
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    Moderator Emeritus Liz's Avatar
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    Hey Paul!

    I love ya Brother! Just as you are! ;)

    Liz


    Quote Originally Posted by paulnj
    SOUND TO ME LIKE YOU JUST MIGHT GET MY POINT and UNDERSTAND my comments.

    I find humor in just about anything, but that seems to get me into debates(which I wish I never entered). I am far from being a moron, so I can debate ANYTHING if I choose to

    NOBODY on this bourd truely knows me, but I assure you Penny knows me the best....

    Penny, feel free to discuss the REAL me that you have gotten to know with ANYONE!!! My only request is to not publicly discuss me (as in post here for the world to read)

  6. #31
    Liz
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    Talking Hmmmmmmmmm

    IMO.........no.

    I think it's okay for a little heat in a discussion. Then maybe a little reminder to keep it cool.

    I don't think this quite fits into the category of a personal attack - which is less tolerable IMO.

    Just my take. I rather enjoyed the different points of view here. You can see my view in my profile.

    Liz

    Quote Originally Posted by Photo-John
    For an Off-Topic forum?

    Religion and politics are almost impossible for most of us to discuss rationally and calmly. Sometimes adding a forum specifically for these topics is the right thing to do.

  7. #32
    Captain of the Ship Photo-John's Avatar
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    Fine Line

    Trevor-
    Yeah, it's a fine line. I want ViewFinder to be open to more than just photography discussion. But religion and politics are tricky. And when a community reaches a certain size, sometimes these things just have to be done. I'm not making a decision. But I'm curious what other people think. I have to admit, this discussion made me a little uncomfortable. But unless people are being really offensive and purposefully hurtful, I try to keep my thoughts and feelings to myself.
    Photo-John

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  8. #33
    Viewfinder and Off-Topic Co-Mod walterick's Avatar
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    Re: ex-Korn guitarist finds God!

    Ah, from the band that brought you the song A.D.I.D.A.S.:

    All
    Day
    I
    Dream
    About
    Sex

    comes more profoundity!

    I'm with Paul, whatever you wanna believe. Except Stryper, Paul, really?

    Besides, you can't find God. God is a verb, not a noun.

    Rick
    Walter Rick Long
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  9. #34
    Too square to be hip. almo's Avatar
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    Re: Hmmmmmmmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by Liz
    IMO.........no.

    I think it's okay for a little heat in a discussion. Then maybe a little reminder to keep it cool.

    I don't think this quite fits into the category of a personal attack - which is less tolerable IMO.

    Just my take. I rather enjoyed the different points of view here. You can see my view in my profile.

    Liz
    I agree with Liz...NO. I like things just the way they are. If you don't like the topic don't join in. If we try to iron out every little wrinkle that appears in the fabric of our community then we will be ironing forever.

    almo
    John Cowan
    Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut.
    ~Ernest Hemingway~

  10. #35
    Liz
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    Smile Pj........

    I read all the posts. Strong? Yes. But this is a topic - as you said - that is tricky - and people feel very strong about their faith - whether it's in God - or a belief that there isn't a God. Whatever!

    Personally, I have strong feelings about my faith. However, I didn't find anything that I thought was a personal attack - and I certainly wasn't offended by other's beliefs.

    I've seen posts that have personally attacked people. I don't find this here - tell me if I missed something. On the other hand, if someone feels personally attacked, I think creating a new forum would make sense.

    Just my take.

    Liz

    Quote Originally Posted by Photo-John
    Trevor-
    Yeah, it's a fine line. I want ViewFinder to be open to more than just photography discussion. But religion and politics are tricky. And when a community reaches a certain size, sometimes these things just have to be done. I'm not making a decision. But I'm curious what other people think. I have to admit, this discussion made me a little uncomfortable. But unless people are being really offensive and purposefully hurtful, I try to keep my thoughts and feelings to myself.

  11. #36
    Viewfinder and Off-Topic Co-Mod walterick's Avatar
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    Re: ex-Korn guitarist finds God!

    "Which means that even though it has been translated into many different languages God would not allow it to be tainted in any way, shape, or form."

    Interesting, that. So that means that there were 2 people who populated the earth? Wthout inbreeding? And when God flooded the world to killl everyone we were again repopulated by just 2 people? Without inbreeding?

    Just asking, I always wondered about this.

    Rick
    Walter Rick Long
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  12. #37
    Viewfinder and Off-Topic Co-Mod walterick's Avatar
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    Re: Hmmmmmmmmm

    I agree. Let it ride. It's been a loong while since anyone here got personally abusive of another. I appreciate that. We've gone through the political and spiritual/religious wheel a few times and still remained civil - though barely at times. Personally, I like it. Though I am one of the antagonisers, for sure

    Let's just all agree that me and Paul are right about everything and then put these debates to rest ;)

    Rick
    Walter Rick Long
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  13. #38
    mooo...wooh hoooh! schrackman's Avatar
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    Re: ex-Korn guitarist finds God!

    NOW I'VE DONE IT.
    Yep, just look what you started! Shame on you, Paul. LOL Nevertheless, not being one to back down, here are some thoughts for you to ponder:

    Quote Originally Posted by paulnj
    Ray,

    you crack me up! Why do you think that you know my thoughts, my faith(or lack of ?), my TRUE nature and most importantly.... MY ABNORMAL SENSE OF HUMOR?
    If this is your way of showing humor then yes I have to agree with you, Paul. It is abnormal. Most people would communicate themselves in a manner where all can clearly understand their point or humor, but you chose to communicate yourself to where only one person could understand you. But perhaps you were really intending to spark a bit o' debate????


    I assure you MY HEART is PURE
    According to whom?


    and I do not FEAR the truth ONCE you discover it.
    Ahh. Well, I suppose that explains why you have never told me the name of the "god" you spoke about several months ago, or how he has revealed himself to you, or how he has communicated his commandments or spiritual principles to you, if indeed he actually has any. So I would like to restate the challenge to you. Enlighten me.


    YOUR BIBLE may have these verses....

    James 4:4 and James 4:11 wait those to me read DO NOT judge and churches are adultresses

    Matthew 7:1 and Matthew 7:17-20..... WHICH ONE DO WE FOLLOW?

    John 7:24 OK, do we judge our fellow man or not?

    and Romans 2:1 OH I LIKE THIS ONE

    1 Corinthians 4:5 ... PONDER THIS why don't you

    Romans 14:10 .....AMEN

    1 Corinthians 5:3.... OH NO.... GOD is everywhere, so he does truely know me and my HEART

    You truely need to rethink what you have just written next time, because those seemed to be JUDGEMENTAL words you wrote. BUT WAIT.... the Bible is unclear as to it's stand on that matter anyway .
    Paul, Paul, Paul. Better start reading things in context instead of just copying and pasting and hoping to fabricate a biblical contradiction. Gonna have to try a bit harder than that, buddy.

    Ray O'Canon
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  14. #39
    Analog Photographer, Digital World Axle's Avatar
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    Re: ex-Korn guitarist finds God!

    And when God flooded the world to killl everyone we were again repopulated by just 2 people? Without inbreeding?
    Actually if you read the story, there was more than just Noah and his wife onboard. There was his sons, and their wives and children, and their wives and children. Yes there was proably inbreading which could explain how frail our bodies are today.
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  15. #40
    has-been... another view's Avatar
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    Re: Hmmmmmmmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by almo
    I agree with Liz...NO. I like things just the way they are. If you don't like the topic don't join in. If we try to iron out every little wrinkle that appears in the fabric of our community then we will be ironing forever.
    (Photo) John, funny you mention this. I was about to suggest a separate forum but decided to back off after I thought about it a little more. That idea came from another kayaking board that has a "bicker & banter" forum, because there are a lot of the same old arguements whether you're talking about kayaking or photography - or life in general. They decided to put all of those threads in one place and it seems to work for them, usually at least.

    John's (Almo) quote above is pretty much what I decided on. It's hard to know for sure (but a good guess is pretty easy ) which are the threads that will require a little extra watching over. There would be a point in discussions like this that we would have to move the thread to the new forum and then people might not see it to follow it.

    Far as this thing goes, it's a pretty close-knit but still public place. If it's not for you then don't participate in it - just like changing the channel on the TV.

  16. #41
    mooo...wooh hoooh! schrackman's Avatar
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    Re: ex-Korn guitarist finds God!

    Quote Originally Posted by Axle
    Actually if you read the story, there was more than just Noah and his wife onboard. There was his sons, and their wives and children, and their wives and children. Yes there was proably inbreading which could explain how frail our bodies are today.
    Yes, 8 people boarded the ark. Also one thing to consider...relations between close relatives was not forbidden by God until the law of Moses was given. Personally, I think God knew the cut off point for when such a thing would benefit humanity (by populating the earth) and when it would do more harm to it (by creating reproductive problems). Of course this is purely my speculation, since the Scriptures do not really address the reasons why God prohibited it.

    Ray O'Canon
    Digital Rebel XTi Digital Rebel Canonet GIII QL17 Agfa Parat-1

    The liberal, socialist politician's nightmare: "What a comfort to the farmer to be allowed to supply his own wants before he should be liable to pay anything, and then only pay on his surplus." - Jefferson to Madison on Taxes,1784

    My Canonet GIII QL-17 photos on flickr.

  17. #42
    Ilford Nut Dzerzhinski46's Avatar
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    Re: ex-Korn guitarist finds God!

    Paul, I can understand the quirky humor part, but please do not disguise it in such an, how shall I put this, inflammatory way. After all, humor keeps us alive most of the time.

    Separate forum for religion and politics? Well, you might start a fire that would not go out. In escence you would create an environment that would breed argument and anger, and there would be no let up. With these topics here, we know to maintain a civil disscusion, even if we don't feel like it. Creating a separate forum would licence people to vent, in a very unhealthy fashion.

    Rick, how considerate you are! LOL I will try to keep my beliefs to a dull roar okay?

    Blessings on you all,

    Dzerzhinski
    "But what is strength without a double share of wisdom." John Milton

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  18. #43
    nature/wildlife co-moderator paulnj's Avatar
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    Re: Hmmmmmmmmm

    Sorry Rick , but NOBODY has the absolute truth...... we all MIGHT be right, we all might be mistaken. In the end EVERYONE will know who was correct and who was mistaken(mind you I don't say WRONG)

    STRYPER was a joke, give me a little DEICIDE please ;)

    No attacks by me ;)

    LEAVE the wrinkles alone!

    END of story
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  19. #44
    Analog Photographer, Digital World Axle's Avatar
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    Re: ex-Korn guitarist finds God!

    Of course this is purely my speculation
    Very true. But in the end it really doesn't matter how this all happened. The Bible isn't a history book, it's a guide to salvation. That's the be all and end all of the Bible. God created the Earth (how? Don't know, don't care), man broke God's rule, and fell into sin. God made a covenant with his chosen people (the jews) this is all covered in the Old Testiment, this was only temporary. God fufilled this Covenant through the birth, teaching, death, and resurection of Jesus Christ, through which all sin is forgiven for all who believe. Then there is the spread of the gospel through the world (read Roman Empire, which was the world at the time). This is the New Testiment.
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  20. #45
    mooo...wooh hoooh! schrackman's Avatar
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    Re: Hmmmmmmmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by paulnj
    Sorry Rick , but NOBODY has the absolute truth......
    Do you believe that absolutely?

    Ray O'Canon
    Digital Rebel XTi Digital Rebel Canonet GIII QL17 Agfa Parat-1

    The liberal, socialist politician's nightmare: "What a comfort to the farmer to be allowed to supply his own wants before he should be liable to pay anything, and then only pay on his surplus." - Jefferson to Madison on Taxes,1784

    My Canonet GIII QL-17 photos on flickr.

  21. #46
    Sitting in a Leaky Dingy Michael Fanelli's Avatar
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    Re: ex-Korn guitarist finds God!

    Quote Originally Posted by schrackman
    Yes, 8 people boarded the ark. Also one thing to consider...relations between close relatives was not forbidden by God until the law of Moses was given. Personally, I think God knew the cut off point for when such a thing would benefit humanity (by populating the earth) and when it would do more harm to it (by creating reproductive problems). Of course this is purely my speculation, since the Scriptures do not really address the reasons why God prohibited it.
    I have been reading this thread and have just two simple comments to make and then I'll leave.

    To those who are thankful that religion and faith exist, take a look at history. More violence and terror has been committed "in the name of God" than by any other force on Earth. It continues unabated today. With faith, logic is almost always excluded.With God on your side, any atrocity can be rationalized.

    As for repopulation of the Earth... studies of DNA show that humans have a very low level of diversity compared to other primates. The theory these days is that humans came very close to extinction at some point in history. Repopulate with a handful of people? Of course not. But maybe the numbers were adjusted downward for effect. As someone wrote, the Bible is based on history no matter how distorted.

    Time for me to go dancing naked and wickedly around the bonfire...
    "Every great decision creates ripples--like a huge boulder dropped in a lake. The ripples merge and rebound off the banks in unforseeable ways.

  22. #47
    nature/wildlife co-moderator paulnj's Avatar
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    Re: Hmmmmmmmmm

    .................................................. ...cough cough............................................. ..... IF YOU'D LIKE TO MAKE A CALL HANG UP AND TRY AGAIN........ IF YOU'D LIKE TO MAKE A CALL HANG UP AND TRY AGAIN.....................................
    CAMERA BIRD NERD #1




    BIRD NERD O'CANON

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  23. #48
    Too square to be hip. almo's Avatar
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    Re: Hmmmmmmmmm

    Lets not forget Brain Welch here guys.

    Anybody heard any new news on him yet? I am looking. I did see this quote on the KORN website regarding him:

    http://www.korn.com/korn/index.php?newsID=1

    almo

    p.s. I will update if I hear anything more.
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  24. #49
    Sleep is optional Sebastian's Avatar
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    Re: ex-Korn guitarist finds God!

    I have to ask, why does this thread even exist? I don't mean the religious banter, I mean the original thread. If it was someone who lost everything to drugs, turned their life around, changed things for the better, then I would understand. But why is someone so famous, so rich, getting more publicity? He doesn't need it, he doesn't set any sort of example. Show me the kids that grew up and lived through hard times and changed their lives, let's celebrate them. They are the ones that set examples for others like them, those are the people we should be celebrating, not some spoiled rock star who took a dip in some river...
    -Seb

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  25. #50
    Too square to be hip. almo's Avatar
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    Re: ex-Korn guitarist finds God!

    You make a good point Seb. But let me give you my take on this.

    As a christain who has struggled against temptation all my life it is good for me to see a man who had everything the "world" defines as sucess turn away from it to follow God. This was a man on the brink of losing everything, including himself to something that everyone else around him thought was completly normal and right.

    Now I do not know what Brain Welch's childhood was like, and I only barely followed his adult career, but this is not what concerns me. It is the new man who chose a path infinitely more difficult than the one he was on.

    As for that dip in the river, I ask that you remember my friend that baptism is no joke to a christain. It is an outward symbol of rebirth and change. Like a wedding ring, this public act shows his commitment to Christ, and that means a lot to me, and a lot of other people.

    almo


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