cibachrome and b/w enlarger

I'm in the process of setting up my own darkroom at home, and I want to be able to print both b/w and color. I have a guy at work who has a cibachrome enlarger that he is willing to part with. He said it will do both b/w and color. I'm pretty new to all of this and I'm wondering what the differance is and if the chemicals and everything that I would need for the cibachrome process are still available. I know I can get everything for b/w pretty easily, but what about the cibachrome stuff? Anyone out there still using this process or is it not woth getting into? I want the option of doing both b/w and color because I'm sure I will get bored with just b/w and I don't have the $ or the room for two seperate enlargers.


Any thought or insights on any of this?
Michael

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Originally Posted by mjs1973

I'm in the process of setting up my own darkroom at home, and I want to be able to print both b/w and color. I have a guy at work who has a cibachrome enlarger that he is willing to part with. He said it will do both b/w and color. I'm pretty new to all of this and I'm wondering what the differance is and if the chemicals and everything that I would need for the cibachrome process are still available. I know I can get everything for b/w pretty easily, but what about the cibachrome stuff? Anyone out there still using this process or is it not woth getting into? I want the option of doing both b/w and color because I'm sure I will get bored with just b/w and I don't have the $ or the room for two seperate enlargers.


Any thought or insights on any of this?
Michael

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The enlarger should definately be able to do B/W. The difference in the enlarger is that the filters you use for balancing color or controlling contrast with multicontrast B/W paper are different. If the enlarger has a dichroic head for color that can also be controlled to give the necessary color for the multicontrast papers.

I think cibachrome is now Ilfochrome made by the Ilford folks. B&H sells the stuff. I don't know who would carry it localy - maybe Star Photo on Willie St.

There is an awful lot of info available over on the rec.photo.darkroom newsgroup. Searching the archives ought to answer a lot of questions for you. Be aware that there are some VERY opinionated folks that used to hang out there. I haven't looked at it in years so it may be different now.

Printing Ilfochrome requires lots of money.
You can buy a very expensive machine processor. And I do mean very expensive, $3K-5K.
The paper isn't cheap for that matter.

You can though, from what it sounds like print color from negatives.
Your best bet would be to get a processor from Jobo. They are resonably priced. You might be able to find a good used one out there somewhere.

Printing color of any kind requires a lot of attention to tempature control. The JOBO processors, basically use a water bath to control the tempature of the chemistry.

Good Luck!

Brian

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Originally Posted by Chunk

The enlarger should definately be able to do B/W. The difference in the enlarger is that the filters you use for balancing color or controlling contrast with multicontrast B/W paper are different. If the enlarger has a dichroic head for color that can also be controlled to give the necessary color for the multicontrast papers.

I think cibachrome is now Ilfochrome made by the Ilford folks. B&H sells the stuff. I don't know who would carry it localy - maybe Star Photo on Willie St.

There is an awful lot of info available over on the rec.photo.darkroom newsgroup. Searching the archives ought to answer a lot of questions for you. Be aware that there are some VERY opinionated folks that used to hang out there. I haven't looked at it in years so it may be different now.

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Thanks for the info Chuck. I did do a quick search this morning and it sounds like the chemicals are the same as b/w prints, with the addition of two extra bleaches before the wash. I will have to do some more checking to be sure tho...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mjs1973

I'm in the process of setting up my own darkroom at home, and I want to be able to print both b/w and color. I have a guy at work who has a cibachrome enlarger that he is willing to part with. He said it will do both b/w and color. I'm pretty new to all of this and I'm wondering what the differance is and if the chemicals and everything that I would need for the cibachrome process are still available. I know I can get everything for b/w pretty easily, but what about the cibachrome stuff? Anyone out there still using this process or is it not woth getting into? I want the option of doing both b/w and color because I'm sure I will get bored with just b/w and I don't have the $ or the room for two seperate enlargers.


Any thought or insights on any of this?
Michael

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I used to do Cibachrome, 20 years ago. Went through the results recently. Brilliant. But here are some things to bear in mind:

1. Cibachrome is a reversal process, uniquely for transparencies. As transparencies are usually pretty contrasty there are two grades of paper.
2. The temperature and time constraints are still really tight. The time in the developer is 105 seconds at 36 degrees Celsius plus or minus 0.5 degrees Celsius. You absolutely have to have a drum in a water bath to achieve that sort of accuracy. Black and white is easy compared with this.
3. A Cibachrome enlarger should be able to do both black-and-white and colour. However if it's optimised for colour it will probably have a diffusion light source, whereas an enlarger optimised for black-and-white will usually have a condenser light source. If you use a diffuser enlarger for black-and-white the highlights may lack a little sparkle (never bothered me).

I still do black-and-white with chemicals at home. But for colour - I use an inkjet printer.

Charles

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mjs1973

I'm in the process of setting up my own darkroom at home, and I want to be able to print both b/w and color. I have a guy at work who has a cibachrome enlarger that he is willing to part with. He said it will do both b/w and color. I'm pretty new to all of this and I'm wondering what the differance is and if the chemicals and everything that I would need for the cibachrome process are still available. I know I can get everything for b/w pretty easily, but what about the cibachrome stuff? Anyone out there still using this process or is it not woth getting into? I want the option of doing both b/w and color because I'm sure I will get bored with just b/w and I don't have the $ or the room for two seperate enlargers.


Any thought or insights on any of this?
Michael

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Hi Michael:
I printed Ciba from my slides for years using a black and white enlarger that was half a century old (I got it for free in dental school from a classmate who used shoot underwater for National Geography) using hand filters. I also had a color enlarger that was a little smaller that I also inherited from another classmate who had more money than was good and spent it on things he didn't use, but I rarely used it. It is a royal pain color balancing ciba. You could spend an entire pack of ciba paper just getting the color balanced. The other problem is contrast. Printing from slide on cibachrome (now ilfochrome) requires a slide that can take the contrast of cibachrome, unless of course you enjoy doing a lot of dodge, burn and masking. It is extremely expensive, even when hand developing with drums and rollers. The upside is that nothing, absolutely NOTHING beats a good Ciba/Ilfochrome print. Good luck dude :-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mtbbrian

Printing Ilfochrome requires lots of money.
You can buy a very expensive machine processor. And I do mean very expensive, $3K-5K.
The paper isn't cheap for that matter.

You can though, from what it sounds like print color from negatives.
Your best bet would be to get a processor from Jobo. They are resonably priced. You might be able to find a good used one out there somewhere.

Printing color of any kind requires a lot of attention to tempature control. The JOBO processors, basically use a water bath to control the tempature of the chemistry.

Good Luck!

Brian

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Thanks for the info Brian!

Thanks for all the information everyone. Sounds like ciba is a lot of work and a lot of $... I'm still up in the air about it tho... I will have to do some more research and figure out if it's worth the time and $ or not...

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Originally Posted by Lionheart

Hi Michael:
The upside is that nothing, absolutely NOTHING beats a good Ciba/Ilfochrome print. Good luck dude :-)

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LightJets and other modern printing processes leave Cibas in the dust when it comes to quality. Ciba's heyday was long ago.

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Originally Posted by Michael Fanelli

LightJets and other modern printing processes leave Cibas in the dust when it comes to quality. Ciba's heyday was long ago.

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Thanks for the update-I'm a dinosaur,hehehehe :D

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Originally Posted by Michael Fanelli

LightJets and other modern printing processes leave Cibas in the dust when it comes to quality. Ciba's heyday was long ago.

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Micheal: Do you have a recommendation for printing black and white digital on canvas that doesn't fade under halogen/incadescent lighting (actually they're turning green) ? We've been printing portraits of our reconstruction patients on canvas through a local printer, then show casing them in the reception area. The local printer uses an Epson printer, the make of which I don'[t remember. What I was wondering was, do you have a printing service that does this sort of print, that is archival and doesn't fade or discolor. It's only been a year for most of these prints and they look terrible. Your input would be greatly appreciated. PM me or email me a solution if you can. Thanks :)

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Originally Posted by Lionheart

Micheal: Do you have a recommendation for printing black and white digital on canvas that doesn't fade under halogen/incadescent lighting (actually they're turning green) ? We've been printing portraits of our reconstruction patients on canvas through a local printer, then show casing them in the reception area. The local printer uses an Epson printer, the make of which I don'[t remember. What I was wondering was, do you have a printing service that does this sort of print, that is archival and doesn't fade or discolor. It's only been a year for most of these prints and they look terrible. Your input would be greatly appreciated. PM me or email me a solution if you can. Thanks :)

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LightJets can print on canvas and do not fade (neither do other quality prints). George Lepp does this very successfully and had excellent samples at his workshop a few years ago. If your prints are fading these days, you and/or your printer are using very cheap inks.