[Rant] P&S + Manual Controls

Ok, here's a quick little rant from me. After selling my casio ex-s500 because I was fed up with its fragility, I am back in the market for a point and shoot. But I want a camera with manual controls. Oh but I also want a small camera. Seems that they dont like to do this. Most of the cameras I have seen so far with manual controls are powershots, with AA batteries (which make the body quite a bit larger). I'm not sure whether I want to use AAs or Li yet, so I may go with an a540. But jeez Nikon, where in the heck are your manual controls? I'm looking at the s6, thinking hey nikons produce good images, then looking at the minimum shutter speed.. oh but wait, it doesnt have that listed because there is no aperture/shutter priority or manual controls. What's the deal with stripping manual features on high end/mid range point and shoots? Ugh its annoying. Ok I'm done.

update: the sd600 looks enticing too, mainly because of the metal construction. and manual controls! 15 sec shutter speeds!

update 2: nevermind, it's not REAL manual mode. the rant holds true.

Doesn't the nikon p5000 have manual controls?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by livin4lax09

update 2: nevermind, it's not REAL manual mode. the rant holds true.

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LOLOL! Sorry Livin. I'm hoping you find something really nice, cuz I'd LOVE to have a P&S too. Glad you are on the job looking at them. :cool:

I'm thinking that the P5000 would do nicely for my wife's upcoming birthday this month. Automagic for mostly everything and manual for me when I don't want to lug the D200 with the attached grip and 28-70/2.8.

Brent, Sad but there is probably just not a market for them. Probably the biggest part of DSLR owners never get out of automatic settings.
Greg

the p5000 looks nice, but a bit too big for me. I mean if I go with that size i'll just get the a540, as it has good reviews and I do love the powershots. I was just looking for something smaller and sleeker with manual controls.

and yeah greg, I hear you there, but here's my thought process.

Pro photographers spend thousands upon thousands of dollars on camera equipment, and when we get a point and shoot, most of us will want something with manual controls, one of the nice top of the line models. Slim, Sleek, and Manual. But the camera manufacturers are more likely to put the controls in their bottom of the line camera? many of the people that probably buy that one are teenagers who only want it because its cheap. It just seems counterproductive. It seems fairly obvious to me that we would be willing to buy the nice ones if they suit our needs, after all we do drop 1k+ on a nice body.

You could check out the Panasonic DMC series with the Leica lens. Mine has full manual controls with shutter speeds from 60 seconds to 1/2000. However, due to the zoom lens, they may be a little large for you. It uses lithium batteries.

Hey Brent,
How much is the A540?
I see the 550 at B&H for $130, and the A570is for $192.
The 570 would give you IS and a slightly better lcd screen for $62. Its 2 tenths of an inch taller, 1 tenth of an inch thinner and just over a half ounce heavier.
Just thought I'd "help".
Mark.

my dad has the a560, and I'm not impressed overall with the build quality of it. It seems like they're making the newer ones in a cheaper way, while i remember the 540 being a little heftier. I can probably get the 540 for about 100-120.

Well my Brother has a Powershot A530, and it has Manual. You can set the aperture, white balance, ISO, flash, macro, etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by livin4lax09

Ok, here's a quick little rant from me. After selling my casio ex-s500 because I was fed up with its fragility, I am back in the market for a point and shoot. But I want a camera with manual controls. Oh but I also want a small camera. Seems that they dont like to do this. Most of the cameras I have seen so far with manual controls are powershots, with AA batteries (which make the body quite a bit larger). I'm not sure whether I want to use AAs or Li yet, so I may go with an a540. But jeez Nikon, where in the heck are your manual controls? I'm looking at the s6, thinking hey nikons produce good images, then looking at the minimum shutter speed.. oh but wait, it doesnt have that listed because there is no aperture/shutter priority or manual controls. What's the deal with stripping manual features on high end/mid range point and shoots? Ugh its annoying. Ok I'm done.

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Well...

Manual controls just aren't that useful in a P&S. Forget aperture control, the lens focal lengths are so small that the DOF stays huge no matter what. Shutter speed control is OK but, as you've seen, these speeds are much more limited than a DSLR. Useful? Maybe but hardly worth writing home about. Manual focus? How?! The LCD screen is hopeless for that and the optical, or even worse, EVF, is garbage and way too small. Choice of exposure modes? Again, just too small to make that work in a reliable way.

My small Canon S400 is not manual but gives me excellent photos. If I want more control, the type of controls that really work, I go for my DSLR.

I think what you are looking for is disappearing and, IMHO, not without good reason.

i dont know, I think quite a few shots I have made with friends' point and shoot cameras would just not have been possible without manual controls. It allows you to take all the uncertainty out of the shot, and take the control away from the idiotic camera and give it back to you. I'm talking here about long exposures mainly, hence the 15 second minimum shutter speeds. all the p&s's I have used have a tendency to avoid long exposures as much as possible if on automatic.

My primary complaint for the ultra-compacts is just how are you supposed to 'set' those manual controls on cameras that are so small to begin with without taking forever to do it? It is very easy to scroll past the aperture you want or select the wrong shutter speed and to really make this work well, I'd want an external meter as the camera's just don't report really what they are seeing. The live preview histogram, when available and tied to exposure properly, is all one needs. There seem to be many trade offs.

Rollei made one of the great 'little' 35 mm cameras of yore. It had this great pull out lens, you set everything manually and it had a very good film advance lever. But was it small! Several auto/semi auto film p/s reliably took far better photos as tech progressed.

Another big issue right now is the lack of an optical viewfinder! There's no room with a 3" display. Canon still makes the SD1000 with a viewfinder which also has life as the SD750(I think thats the number) w/larger LCD and no vf. This is important in bright light and high glare conditions. You cannot even see the display much of the time.

I've been looking at many of the 'folded optics' designs just because of there ability to slide into a pocket and with sliding cover there's no unwieldy extening lens to snag or get damaged should it be turned on or 'opened' in a pocket or case. Still, these seem to have less options than many.

There's a slew of new cameras appearing on the market in the next few months, including FujiFilms F50fd (full manual controls promised), Canon has several updates and a real slick looking SD update coming out also. Full controls in a thin camera? Tough order to be able to manipulate them. Samsung's got the slickest interface I've seen in years, now if the next set of Samsung cameras can deliver the image quality.

I just check the "Digital Cameras Comparison" page at link: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare.asp

And the only current production is coming from: Canon

...this is why I haven't given up my Nikon Coolpix 5000...

Full manual controls, either AF from the center or can be selected from five points (like the F100 which was it's contemporary), three metering modes (c/w, matrix, spot), swivel LCD and the list goes on. The 5400 that replaced it was basically the same camera but a little larger. The 8400 that replaced that one had some neat features but both of the newer models used really big accessory lenses. I don't know much about the new P5000 that replaced the 8400 but it seems like they went down a different path with that one. All of those three I mentioned are not even close to pocket sized...

If I was in the market for a Compact Digital, I would get an A710 IS rather than the A570IS because there is a non permanent software mod (just some programs that the camera runs off the card) that allows it to shoot in RAW and gives the camera a lot of other functionality.

The A### powershots really are dang compact, I carry my A570IS in my back pocket a lot, I just have to remember to remove it before I sit...it's not comfortable to sit on!

If you're interested in such a mod, check this out and make sure the camera you get is on that list, or see if another camera has something like that available

That CHDK mod even has games :D