• 03-01-2010, 10:39 PM
    BBRoberts
    Sony a330 continuous shooting question
    Hi All,

    I noticed something which that just came up cause it was the first time I put this to a serious test. I didn't previously cause I didn't want to wear the camera out early without using it specifically for what I wanted it for, which is sports. Anyway what i noticed is when I hold the button down for continuous shooting at 3fps or roughly thereabouts, it jams sometimes. Its not a mechanical jam, but I think what happens is the camera tries to re-focus. I never had this problem with my Sony H9. With the H9, once I focus by pressing button halfway down, and then all the way and hold it, it never failed to keep shooting until I released my finger. However with the 330, it seems about half the time when I hold the button down, after a few frames it stops shooting and I think its trying to re-focus. This is very irritating. Has anyone else had this problem. It did it with both the lens kit the camera came with, as well as the big beer can. I am shooting cat 1-2 bicycle racing at speeds only about 20-25mph, but at close range sometimes, and also the speed is high in order to freeze the frame. Even though I have it set at 1/2000, my H9 never had a problem with the same settings. The problem seems the same at various range of the telephoto and wide angle end. I also used a single pod for stablization, so I believe the camera was pretty still in that regard.

    Anybody have a clue?

    Thanks,
    BBRoberts
  • 03-02-2010, 09:25 AM
    OldClicker
    Re: Sony a330 continuous shooting question
    (I have 350, not 330) What AutoFocus mode do you have it in? I believe that if it is in Single Shot mode (AF-S) that it will just keep on firing like you want it to. Be aware, though, that it is only focusing for the first time so the rest may be out of focus. If it is in Continuous Focus mode (AF-C), it will find focus between each shot.

    Racing already? We're still doing indoor TTs on Computrainers here in Chicago.

    TF
  • 03-02-2010, 10:47 AM
    BBRoberts
    Re: Sony a330 continuous shooting question
    Interesting, maybe I can figure this out. Another thought I had was perhaps after a few continuous bursts that the memory buffer or cache was full and had to time out for a bit to catch up. I'm not sure about any of that, and that would require some research and reading elsewhere to see if there were any issues with that. I was assuming the camera was engineered to allow smooth operation with the burst limited to whatever the memory card and caching functions could keep up with writing to disk, or in this case memory. However perhaps more what you said is correct, I don't know.

    To answer your question, I have it set on AF-A. I really need serious help with this. I have got to figure this out by this weekend cause I got a big project coming. According to the prompt, AF-A will focus regardless of if its a target is moving or still. I thought this would be best since bicycles move at various speeds. You mention track, I am doing spring road classics outdoors in sunny California. Anyway AF-C says it will focus for moving subject. Perhaps I should change to that. AF-S says its only for still subjects, not moving targets.

    When I used to shoot as someone new to digital cameras, I found that if I focused before a rider came by, it would focus off in the distance, so its a big tricky. What I do now is wait until the front of the pack starts to come by and then I half click to focus on the moving targets, but at least I think that is working better then what I used to do. I think the camera struggles to focus on moving targets it sees at close range. Previously 1/500th didn't work, not at close range. I found that 1/2000 was only suitable for the job.

    Anything below that came out blurry at close range. 1/500th is what other cameramen have told me, but that only seems to work further away, not at very close range. 1/500th produces a better photo, but if there is enough sun, it doesn't seem to make a difference. I do notice the ISO at 400 on a cloudy day is not the greatest with the 330. This is when the a700 or 900 would do well better at a higher ISO. I was somewhat disappointed by the results at 400, but not real bad. Not as bad as with the H9 at 400!

    On you reply again, you said beware, while the first one might be in focus, the rest could be out of focus. I am assuming though, and this is the way I understand it, once your camera focuses on a certain area, and you press the shutter and hold it down for burst, it should continue to give you clear shots in that exact focus area, at least that is how the H9 worked. What that should mean, if you don't move the camera, every rider it captures in that focus area that rides by should come out clear.

    Can you elaborate on your experience with these issues a bit, or anyone please. I would like to get this corrected by race time. I need to use the right mode so that the burst won't jam, but will shoot a smooth stream of bursts until I stop it. It was very frustrating for me. I lost a lot of photos this last weekend. I would start shooting a few bursts and then the camera would jam sort of, it seems like it wanted to refocus but just sort of freaked out with moving targets after a few bursts. Weird. Maybe possible a mechanical defect with the camera, but I hope not, and probably not.
  • 03-02-2010, 12:58 PM
    OldClicker
    Re: Sony a330 continuous shooting question
    A few things:

    Many compromises.

    For the same distance and field of view (what you see in the frame), the DSLR will have a much shallower depth of focus (DoF, front to back in-focus range) than the P&S did. Just getting the focus close (AF-S) and firing away is going to need a lot more thought and preparation.

    The memory buffer will fill up and shooting will stop to wait for it to catch up. The smaller the file size, the fast the transfer (and, of course, the less data you have to work with).

    AF-A will need study. I use it a lot, but have figured out what it is going to do for certain situations and it still confuses me at times.

    AF-C should try to focus before every shot. If the light is low or the contrast is bad (not usually a problem with roadies), the lens may hunt before it finds focus.

    AF-S should just accept the focus from the first half press and fire away whether in focus or not.

    I would set it on ISO 200 and Aperture Priority. I would set the aperture to get the DoF I want. I would then check the Shutter Speed to see if it is fast enough. If not, I would look at the ISO and aperture to see where I am willing to compromise. I have only shot one bike race (cyclocross) and found I got much better images when I concentrated on the single shot rather than the machinegun approach or maybe a spray of just 2-3. Also, if you pan with the rider you can get a non-blurred rider with much slower shutter speeds. If you have a flash (more powerful than the pop-up flash), there are also good techniques to show speed.

    I don't think you are going to get the answers by just asking or reading - you are going to have to practice. Maybe a local ride or a busy road???

    TF
  • 03-02-2010, 02:10 PM
    BBRoberts
    Re: Sony a330 continuous shooting question
    I have quite a bit of practice for a few years now, but that was all P&S/H9. Since I am using RAW, perhaps its a issue with caching, the camera is playing catch up with memory cards. I got the fastest card out there for this camera, but each photo runs about 11 megs, so on a burst, maybe it can't keep up.

    I should try AF-C&S besides A, and see what happens. Using a flash would take forever, and I wouldn't get hardly any photos. Yeah, I need a machine gun for bike racing for the kind of post production work I am after. I would of probably been better off with the A-700 for a much smaller investment then the A-900.

    I would use Aperture, if for not the problem with high speed, 1/2000th. I do agree, I could just take a few good quality photos, but I can't do that. I need to take a lot for the work I do. It kinds of like sifting the sandbox at the end of the day, and you hope there are reasonbly sized gold nuggets in there. I do the best I can based on what I know, but as far as my experience goes, my data shows me I will get far more good quality photos in the machine gun mode then I would just finessing one at a time here or there. However, if its a problem that the camera can't keep up in RAW, then you would be right in the sense I might just have to settle for 3 at time. I should just test it in jpg, and if there are no problems with the burst rate, then it can't keep up with processing RAW.

    Thanks,
    BBRoberts
  • 03-02-2010, 04:19 PM
    BBRoberts
    Re: Sony a330 continuous shooting question
    On the AF area, do you find better results with wide, spot of local for the autofocus spots? I was told by a guy who did a review of the H9 that he thought the wide focus area was lousy and rarely got it right. He was a big fan of spot focus. It really takes a lot of testing to sort all that out. I would be keen to know what people have had the best luck with in that regard. He also said he leaves IS off at high shutter speeds, makes sense too on that one. I don't trust the sports mode, its probably a disaster like it was on the H9. I know aperture is great mode for stills, and it seems to work well at getting the light right automagically. However the portrait mode should work quite well I guess for shooting stills of riders from a short distance. I almost always used portrait and manual mode on the H9, but this one is going to take some getting used to.

    BBRoberts
  • 03-02-2010, 05:00 PM
    OldClicker
    Re: Sony a330 continuous shooting question
    Set on your tripod pointed at something bright with good contrast and hit the button. You will know how fast it can shoot RAW and for how long before the buffer is full. Then test with the various jpg sizes.

    Can you post examples of what you are after?

    I use local AF, though center would probably be best for what you are doing since you don't have time to choose which point to use anyway.

    A would always use Aperture Priority, Shutter Priority or Manual - you decide, not the camera.

    TF
  • 03-03-2010, 12:38 PM
    BBRoberts
    Re: Sony a330 continuous shooting question
    http://www.procyclingwomen.com/Highl.../Photos/01.jpg
    http://www.procyclingwomen.com/Highl.../Photos/04.jpg
    http://www.procyclingwomen.com/Highl.../Photos/06.jpg
    http://www.procyclingwomen.com/Highl.../Photos/09.jpg

    Yeah, I can/did.

    You know in the past, cameras were terrible at getting it right on auto, but when set to Aperture which is sort of like an auto for the Aperture anyway, I was suprised at just how well it did. Maybe the hardware/software combined is getting smarter? I think so, it has too, and in fact that is where technology is heading. These cameras are going to get smarter and smarter, eventually making taking good photos much less difficult. I know that takes the skill and fun out of the hobby, but in this fast paced society, its a must needed direction to take for photographers, both serious and shade tree shooters.

    BBRoberts
  • 03-03-2010, 01:56 PM
    OldClicker
    Re: Sony a330 continuous shooting question
    Nice shots! - TF