Nikon Camera Equipment Forum

Discuss Nikon digital cameras, Nikon film cameras, Nikkor lenses, Nikon camera accessories, etc. - Your Nikon cameras forum moderator is Franglais.
Nikon Review Index >>
Nikon Digital SLR Reviews >>
Nikon Nikkor Zoom Lens Reviews >>
Nikon Nikkor Prime Lens Reviews >>
Nikon Camera News, Pro Reviews & Articles >>
Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1
    Woe is me! wfooshee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Panama City, Florida
    Posts
    656

    F4 cameras are all over the place!!!!

    If you want a really really nice film camera, which I'm not sure I do but I couldn't pass up the chance to try it, eBay is loaded with Nikon F4 bodies under 400, sometimes under 300 bucks! (There are F5s, too, for not much more.)

    OK, I got one for $155!!!

    As far as I can tell so far, it's perfect!!!

    I've not run any film through it, yet, but I put in some batteries and mounted some lenses to see how it fares. (C'mon, I've only had it since Thursday, and I've only had a manual since this morning!)

    All I have are G lenses, three of them, and only one of those is full-frame. I think that means I can't shoot aperture-priority or full manual, because I can't set aperture on the lens. (I'm not sure it won't work in those modes, just treating wide open as the aperture setting.) It won't autofocus my kit-lens 18-55 for some reason, although it works fine with the other kit-lens 55-200 and the 70-300 ED VR, all of which are AF-S motorized lenses, not driven by the body motor. The kit lenses are DX anyway, so no intention of actually using them with this. The 18-55 at 18 is extremely vignetted, as in black corners most of the way to the center-weighted metering circle!

    It seems to like my SB-600 flash, too. It triggers the flash, and seems to meter it (more flash pointed down a dark hallway than in a well-lit room, as measured by recycle time.) It also communicates focal length, zooming the flash head as I zoom the lens, and it works the AF illuminator on the flash head, and lights the flash-ready icon in the viewfinder.

    The fact that it understands an AF-S lens, and G-series lenses in general, is amazing to me, because those didn't exist when this thing was new! I'm also impressed with it working the flash. My SB-24 that I had on my n8008 didn't work on my D50, so I sold it with the n8008 when I got the D50. (I wonder if the SB-24 would have worked on my D5000?) But that's the "top" flash listed in this camera's manual.

    So, F4 body, with DP-20 finder (matrix, center-weighted, and spot metering,) E screen (with horizontal and vertical grid lines,) and MB-21 battery pack, for $155. Deal! :biggrin5: And if I decide I don't need it, I'll list it back up, maybe make a buck or two off of the trial period.

    Didn't have a manual with it, found one here, from a guy I've found to be very handy with coming up with old documentation that you can't find any where else.

  2. #2
    Senior Shooter Greg McCary's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Rome Ga.
    Posts
    10,550

    Re: F4 cameras are all over the place!!!!

    I have looked at them before and thought about getting one. They are certainly great cameras.
    I am like Barney Fife, I have a gun but Andy makes me keep the bullet in my pocket..

    Sony a99/a7R

  3. #3
    Be serious Franglais's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    3,367

    Re: F4 cameras are all over the place!!!!

    When going from film to digital one piece of technology changed radically: flash.

    - with film TTL flash was done by a cell observing the (dull) film surface during exposure
    - with digital the sensor surface is shiny and reflects light. No way to measure the light off the sensor reliably. Nikon DSLR's do a preflash with the mirror down which is measured by the regular sensor then the mirror is flipped up, the shutter opened and the real flash goes off with the right amount of power without measurement.

    The SB24 won't work with any DSLR except in non-TTL flash mode
    The SB600 (more recent) works with DSLR's but it can also emulate film flash mode so it will work fine with the F4.

    My choice for a film SLR is the F100 (I have one - but I never use it). It's a beautiful piece of work, the sound it makes is nice and it's smaller and lighter than the F4/F5.
    Charles

    Nikon D800, D7200, Sony RX100m3
    Not buying any more gear this year. I hope

  4. #4
    Woe is me! wfooshee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Panama City, Florida
    Posts
    656

    Re: F4 cameras are all over the place!!!!

    That flash difference occurred to me, wasn't sure how it was handled. I know that exposure metering is done in the pentaprism, and I knew that TTL flash was done off the film, but I didn't know the difference in the digital method. Thanks.

    As for the weight, as soon as this thing was in my hand the first time, I was a little bit "Uh-oh!" I lugged it around today and ran a couple of rolls through it, not looking for anything spectacular, but getting a feel for the thing. Used cheap print film, had a cloudy day out, and haven't even taken the film in yet. But holy cow, it's like 37 pounds hanging on your neck!!!!! I'm-a gonna need a better strap than this has on it!

    As for how it worked, I didn't encounter anything unexpected. I had to think about where the AF-L button was the first couple of times. It's high with the right thumb on the D5000, and on the front with the middle finger on the F4. Never could find it. Suddenly I remembered that it was the same place on my n8008, and I never had to think about it again! Weird memory association.

    I didn't need the flash, but I mounted it, and had an uh-oh moment. The flash stayed at 24mm focal length, and I had my 70-300 mounted. Also, it wasn't in TTL mode. Turns out the camera ought to be off when you mount the flash.... Oops. No issues after that.

    Today was HOT!!!! and all the critters stayed in bed (or wherever it is they stay.) Saw nothing except some wading birds and some dragonflies. Still managed to burn two 24-exp rolls.

  5. #5
    Woe is me! wfooshee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Panama City, Florida
    Posts
    656

    Re: F4 cameras are all over the place!!!!

    Another day carrying the F4 around. This time I carried both cameras, the F4 with the 70-300 and the D5000 with the kit 55-200. Theoretically that was to make the comparisons between cameras, since with the crop factor they come out to the same image view on each camera. The difference between the lenses spoiled that theory, and I've been reminded why the 55-200 has been sitting in a box all these months after I bought the 70-300!!!! Maybe the newer one, with VR, is better. I don't see how it could be any worse, anyway!

    I'm still "in between" scanners, so when I took the film in, I asked for the CD instead of prints, so I could at least get images onto the computer. "CD-only" is not any cheaper, by the way.

    Well, the CD lets me see the pictures on the PC screen, but that's about it. They were scanned at 1.5 megapixels!!!!! What the hell good does that do????? The drugstore moron's machine numbered the images backwards, too! Frame 1 on the negative is image file 24 on the CD. Really?????

    I have a film scanner, but when my PC died and was replaced, I ended up with no place to install the interface card; no PCI slots in the new PC, only PCI-e. I've ordered a card, and I have to get new software, too, because Nikon's film scanner software does not run on Windows 7, especially not Win7x64. Can hardly wait to get that back up and running!!!! Then the drugstore will be develop only, gimme the negatives!!!!

    Anyway, my conclusions:

    1. Using drugstore processing to get your pictures makes eating dirty diapers coated with cat puke sound enticing.
    2. Nikon's 55-200 kit lens is much like a dirty diaper coated with cat puke, but not edible.
    3. Nikon's 70-300 VR is an incredible value.
    4. The F4's large viewscreen RAWKS!!!!11!1!!!ZOMG!!!!!111!!!
    5. The D5000's screen is actually brighter, but being smaller is much harder to do things with, like manually focus.
    6. In 20 years they've learned a thing or two about auto-focus.
    7. The F4 should be mounted on a granite pedestal to support its weight, and whatever you want a picture of should be brought to it.

    The auto-focus issue first: When I was out Sunday, I shot stationary items for the most part. Trees. Buildings. Parked cars. If I shot something that was alive, it was standing still at the time.

    Today I made the attempt to shoot flying birds. Unlike Sunday, we had flying birds today. The F4 moved the focus the wrong direction nearly every time!!!! It usually went to infinity, to minimum, and back to infinity and gave up, even as it passed my subject.

    Knowing that the early sensors worked by contrast, I experimented. Turns out it needs a lot of contrast! It had trouble focusing on the ground in front of me unless there was something sharply shadowed or very differently colored. Smooth pavement, it would hunt.

    So: white birds against cloudy sky: not useful.

    Tested same with the D5000, almost no problem, as long as I could keep the bird in the sensor box (not alway easy, what with how they flit and dive and stuff.)

    That was quite disappointing, actually, because after Sunday's shooting I was surprised and well impressed with how well the F4's AF performed, recalling issued I'd had with my n8008 back in the day. Well, those issues resurfaced today, and this was pretty much exactly how I remembered the n8008.

    I ran onto another film vs. digital issue today, which didn't crop up Sunday. Frame 1 of one roll was fogged, and frames 2 and 4 (?) of the other were fogged. I can't recall ever seeing that on my D5000 or on my previous D50. :lol:

    So some pictures: Here's a pair that matched pretty closely! The D5000 image had some contrast added before I saved it, the F4 frame is as found on the CD.

    D5000, 200mm:


    F4, 300mm:



    Here's a cardinal spotted in a pine tree. First the D5000 frame, then cropped on the bird. Now, in the full frame you can see that the bird is exactly in the center of the frame, i.e. the focus sensor, yet the crop makes it clear that the lens focused well behind the bird. After those is a similar image from the F4. I can't show a crop because my original image has just over 10% as many pixels as the D5000 image, thanks to the drugstore moron (or his machine.)








    Here's one on the ground, a lizard trying to escape. These are at 1/250th so I don't think it's shake that makes the 55-200 so bad... First is the D5000, 55-200, full and cropped, then the F4 70-300 similarly placed.








    Lastly, I just want to show that it's not the F4 being better than the D5000, but it's the 70-300 being much better than the 55-200, by orders of magnitude more than I expected. Here are 3 shots, all on the F4. The 55-200 at 55mm, then at 200mm, then the 70-300 at 300mm. I was actually surprised to get so little vignetting on the 55-200 at its short end, but that was the only pleasant thing it had for me all day.

    55-200 at 55mm:


    55-200 @200mm:


    70-300 @ 300mm:


    (BTW, I didn't shoot it, but the 18-55 kit lens, which is much better than the 55-200 somehow, doesn't just vignette at the short end, it has deep black corners! It's actually fine past 24mm length.)

    So my planned camera comparison today turned into a lens comparison. I have to say that I found myself looking for things in the wrong place on the D5000 way more often than I did on the F4 as I switched back and forth! Several times I turned the mode dial on the D5000 when I intended to change shutter speed. Actually, the only time I reached for the wrong control on the F4 was when I went for the shutter speed dial without looking, and tried to turn exposure compensation instead, which is locked unless you press a button beside it. I should have been able to tell by its size that it was the wrong dial, but still, only that one wrong selection on an unfamiliar camera says something about the F4's ergonomics!!!

  6. #6
    Senior Member volks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts
    506

    Re: F4 cameras are all over the place!!!!

    Enjoyed the photos between the D5000, F4 and various lenses.
    I often think about getting a good quality film camera again and kick myself now for having gotten rid of two of them as trade in's and getting nothing for them really. Sounds like the F4 is a heavy beast.. so no thanks. My D7000 with my 70-300 lens is about as much weight I want to carry. My film cameras that I had and enjoyed were an Olympus OM2 and the Pentax Ist. I don't have any Olympus or Pentax lenses, so what would be a rough equal Nikon model ?
    Volker
    Nikon D7200
    Nikon P7100
    Nikon 16-80/2.8-4 ED VR
    Nikon 55-200 VR II

    Keeping it light and simple.

  7. #7
    Woe is me! wfooshee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Panama City, Florida
    Posts
    656

    Re: F4 cameras are all over the place!!!!

    Well, the OM2 was an aperture-priority or manual exposure camera, manual focus. I'd assume you want something auto-focus capable to work with your current lenses. I'd look for an F100, N80, or N90. You'll find n8008 bodies really cheap, but they won't auto-focus AF-S lenses. The F100 and N80 even work VR on lenses so equipped.

    Really roughly equal to the OM2 would be something like an FE2, but you'd be giving up auto-focus, and it won't work with G-series lenses, the ones with no aperture ring.

    F4, heavy? What?? Well, maybe; The F4 with my 70-300 is a solid 5 pounds.

  8. #8
    Senior Member volks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts
    506

    Re: F4 cameras are all over the place!!!!

    Thanks for the info wfooshee, much appreciated. Gives me something to investigate and just maybe end up buying one of those old Nikons.
    Volker
    Nikon D7200
    Nikon P7100
    Nikon 16-80/2.8-4 ED VR
    Nikon 55-200 VR II

    Keeping it light and simple.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •