Putting My Money Where My Mouth Is

[Photo-John]

I don't often post photos on the Photo Critique forum. That's because I'm usually pretty confident I know what works and what doesn't. However, following the Photo Critique article I published today, I figured I should put myself out there for some friendly abuse

This photo is actually one I've been sitting on for a while. I really liked the background but I don't feel like it worked. I think the skier is too small, the image is too cluttered, and the composition is split down the middle. Emotionally though, I'm having a hard time letting go of it. So I'm offering it up to see what you guys think. Does it completely suck? Should I try again in the same location? If so, what should I do next time to make it better?

I also need to take my own advice, that the critique process is "one of the most powerful tools available to photographers and artists who really want to improve their work."

So go to town on me. What can I do to make this better?

And now, as part of the Photo Critique forum contract, I'm off to offer my opinions on some other photos

Thanks in advance for your help!

[gahspidy]

"I don't often post photos on the Photo Critique forum. That's because I'm usually pretty confident I know what works and what doesn't."

Yep, I've been the same way mostly. I know when something of mine is not working, and why its not and won't post anything unless it gets past my own approval, or, I am sitting on the fence about an image that has me keep coming back to it.

In your posted photo, I too feel the composition is somewhat cut in half by the mass of trees and open space on each end. I love the scenery, the bg and the skiers moment in action. i have to say that even though the composition looks to be split in half, there is a pleasing balance to it all, and one reason i suspect you continue to hold on to this.
As with all your work, you have a good and deliberate sense of composition and that still is apparent here to me.
i think what would really help this image is if the trees were not such a dark mass. If you could open them up a nit and bring out more of the green color, there would be improvement.
I like the photo as it is really and even though it can feel a bit like its split, the balance is there and the moment was right.

[Grandpaw]

I like it and think the skier being a little larger would be nice but the thing I think that is more important to me is getting a little separation between the skier and the background. To me the subject blends in too much. Nice photo, Jeff

[Photo-John]

I like it and think the skier being a little larger would be nice but the thing I think that is more important to me is getting a little separation between the skier and the background. To me the subject blends in too much.

Yup. I called that, "too busy." But I think you said it better

For some perspective, note the shadows. I was fighting with the shadows, the trees and that space where you can actually see the peak in the background. So I told my skiers to hit that sunny spot. Now I can see I should have been closer. But then I probably wouldn't have had the mountain. And without the mountain, it's just a shot of a skier against some trees - who cares. It's also very difficult to move around in the snow. Once you go down, moving back uphill 10 or 15 feet is a big chore. So you have to try to envision where to be for you and the skier and then commit. The ski photos are about the toughest thing I've ever tried to do. They make mountain bike stuff look like a walk in the park.

Gary pretty much reinforced what I already feel - that this composition *does* work, in spite of being split down the middle. But somehow, the photo as a whole is just not quite there. I'm hoping that by bouncing it off you guys I can get some clarity I can take back to that spot so I can give it another shot. One thing I've noticed is I often have my skier/boarder too far away. I aim to try to think more about the skier distance from me from now on. It's a scale thing. but it also effects what you're talking about, Grandpaw, the subject blending into the background too much.

Anyway. Thanks guys. And the rest of you - keep the ideas and criticism coming!

[arne saknussen]

It is certainly a nice scene. I feel that the tree (or is it two trees clumped together?) that is dead center is the culprit here. It is what splits the shot in two and also is a barrier for the skier.

[Greg McCary]

John I think a little wider at the bottom would have helped, being split in two is ok. I love the mountain range it just wouldn't work if it wasn't there. You really have a knack for squeezing every ounce of IQ out of every camera you use. I can never tell what you are shooting with. I also understand about weather a shoot works or not and why. The forums here have put me where I want to be, or close to it.

[Photo-John]

John I think a little wider at the bottom would have helped, being split in two is ok. I love the mountain range it just wouldn't work if it wasn't there. You really have a knack for squeezing every ounce of IQ out of every camera you use. I can never tell what you are shooting with. I also understand about weather a shoot works or not and why. The forums here have put me where I want to be, or close to it.

Thanks, Greg. I actually cropped this tighter from both sides in order to help focus more attention on the skier. I don't know. I just don't know

As for IQ and camera, this was shot with the Nikon D7000. No shortage of image quality there. The truth is, for most outdoor photos - especially with sun and snow, image quality isn't an issue anymore. I'm more concerned with burst rates and auto focus performance these days.

[slowerthensnot]

It feels a bit busy to me, too much to look at perhaps? Or maybe its the tree in the foreground that kinna grabs me instead of the skier?

[Photo-John]

It feels a bit busy to me, too much to look at perhaps? Or maybe its the tree in the foreground that kinna grabs me instead of the skier?

Well, hello, Dave!

I think you're right. Bottom line, I think I needed a cleaner foreground so the skier shows up better. Or I need the skier to be closer. Or both. Jan the Telemarketer, the skier, likes it. So at least there's that

I need to keep exploring this shot and see if I can find a better location and lighting so I can make it work.

[armando_m]

oh... the captain of the boat asking for our opinon

Beautiful image, great background, nice steep angle on the slope
amazing balance between the bright snow and the rest of the image

you didn't noticed the the tree right in the middle when you picked your spot ?

In my opinion the skier looks way to small

I can only imagine if you tell a skier, ok go back up, lets try this again and remember to smile as you pass through the sunny spot

[slowerthensnot]

oh... the captain of the boat asking for our opinon


I can only imagine if you tell a skier, ok go back up, lets try this again and remember to smile as you pass through the sunny spot

Yeah I think sometimes I annoy my mtn biking friends with that

[Photo-John]

you didn't noticed the the tree right in the middle when you picked your spot ?

Yeah, I knew the trees were there. But if you look at the scene you'll see that if I moved left the trees in the background would block the mountains. And if I had the skier come closer, she would have been in the shadow. I need the sun in a different position or I need a different location with a clearer foreground. And I need that foreground with good snow. Good, untracked snow is always a challenge at the ski resorts

I can only imagine if you tell a skier, ok go back up, lets try this again and remember to smile as you pass through the sunny spot

Skiers don't usually hike back up for a resort shot like this. You ski down to the bottom and then back up. In this case, it takes three lifts, a hike and about 45 minutes to get back. That's not an excuse - just a little background so everyone understands. The bottom line is I need to keep exploring this background to figure out how to make a better shot.

Thanks!

[draymorton]

Though I love your sports photography and I always wish I were the one in any given shot, I don't know what to make of this one. It's an interesting, if schizoid, comp. There are two distinct images there, but together there are too many opposing forces, if that makes any sense. Maybe that has something to do with it. I used to shoot a lot of skiing, so I have a rough idea as to all that goes into it. And my first thought after seeing this image was that it would be a difficult scene to capture.


It kills me to say this, of course, because I love your winter images. But hey, you asked for it.

It also kills me that I was in Stowe, VT for week where it was dumping nonstop and I didn't go skiing once. But that's another story.

[Photo-John]

It kills me to say this, of course, because I love your winter images. But hey, you asked for it.

I did ask for it. Because I really wasn't sure. Sometimes the public response is a lot more positive than I expect - and sometimes not

I am going to go back and scout for a better location that allows me to get what I want out of that slope and that background. Damnit!

It also kills me that I was in Stowe, VT for week where it was dumping nonstop and I didn't go skiing once. But that's another story.

You can only blame yourself. Life is too short!

[draymorton]

Looking again and... if those three or four trees at top center were short enough to have missed the crop, the whole thing would have worked better for me.

The exposure is fantastic considering the complexity of the scene. How did you meter?

[draymorton]

p.s. If you wanted to put some of that money into the D. Ray Morton Scholarship Fund, as well, I'm not sure I would object.

[Photo-John]

The exposure is fantastic considering the complexity of the scene. How did you meter?

For snow photos like this, I use the histogram and highlight clipping display to get as close to white without going over the edge as I can get. That way I know I'll have some detail in the snow without having it be gray. Then I work the hell out of the RAW files in Lightroom and then again in Photoshop to massage them into something like what you see here. Sunny days like this are easy. It's the overcast days that are really brutal for snow photos. They require a lot of Photoshop adjustment layer magic to get detail out of the snow.

[LeeIs]

Hey John,

1st, you should definitely post more often. The critique forum is amazing at letting you see things that you might otherwise miss.

The exposure and all the technical stuff is done very good in this one. So i'll skip over that. I dont' mind the skier being so small in the frame, I think the bright blue pants help in drawing attention to him/her regardless of the size. The skiier is in a nice position of the photo as well. Love the backdrop and the wideness of the photo up top.

The thing that bugs me the most about this photo is the one tree in the foreground. There doesn't seem to be a visual path for the skier to continue on. Almost like a dead end. Might be entertaining for us ;-) but sure is scary for teh skier lol. (i know the hill continues beyond the trees) but the trees cutting in to it and the bottom right being 'green' heavy and not much white doesn't flatter the ski resort or the scene here imo. For that reason, I wish the shot was a bit wider and that it gave my eyes a place for the skier to go.

[Photo-John]

the trees cutting in to it and the bottom right being 'green' heavy and not much white doesn't flatter the ski resort or the scene here imo. For that reason, I wish the shot was a bit wider and that it gave my eyes a place for the skier to go.

For what it's worth, we're nowhere near a groomed run here. We hiked about 15 minutes to get away from groomed runs for this photo

That said, what you said about the need for a clear path for the skier makes a lot of sense. Of course, I know there's a clear path but the viewer, and the subconscious mind doesn't. I can definitely see that creating a feeling of discomfort with this photo.

Thanks!

[draymorton]

I think that foreground tree adds depth to the photo. And I can see a path to its right plainly enough to know where the subject is headed.

I do agree that I'd like to see a wider version, though. But wide angles can wreak havoc with these kinds of shots, flattening things out, etc.

[Marc2B4]

What's the main subject, the skier or the scenery? I'd have gotten in a lot tighter on the skier; not tried to have done too much with one image. You yourself said it: "busy". As a scenic shot, it would be breathtaking without the skier. As an action shot, it would be great with a tighter shot on the skier. Make up your mind as to what you want to do with the image.