in camera noise reduction or not?

[LightBright]

I shoot xfine jpeg most of the time. Sometimes I shoot at a relatively high iso for low light conditions and get lots of noise even with the a700’s NR set to high.

Would it be better if I used in camera noise reduction on (high setting) or just turn it off all together and instead use noise reduction software in post? I heard noise ware is good.

Thanks

[cougarjim]

That is a good question I would like to know also.
I have an A350 and I get noise with a low ISO (100)

Jim

[Anbesol]

Jim - you get noise at ISO 100?? Hmm, can you post a sample of the noise you are having?

Its a mixed bag, the in camera noise reduction *does* reduce noise, but it also loses detail and makes for more creamy color, a sort of smudgy cream at that. I personally use NR but on low - sort of the lazy way out. That way I can post process most of the noise, but the built in NR gets me a head start to speed up the work flow.

The question I have is: are you updated on your sony firmware? Ever since I upped to v 4.0, noise has been a very non issue, even using up to ISO 1600/2000

[LightBright]

My a700's firmware when I check in the menu and press display reads " Version 4" so I know that the firmware update was successful when I updated it awhile back.

I think on my camera, all iso's except 100 seem to be noisy “in” poorly lit scenes (especially the dark black areas get noisy/blotchy) , but I can easily bump up the iso to 1600 and maybe above with very little noticeable noise if the scene is very well lit. I will take your advice on setting the NR on low so later on it will be simpler to remove the unwanted noise in post.


Anbesol what do you use to reduce noise on your computer?

I was thinking about getting noise ware or noise ninja. Thanks again

[Anbesol]

I'm lazy I guess, or perhaps I just don't want to learn a whole new program, but I use the filters and adjustments within Photoshop. My most common noise reduction technique is to apply a high pass filter to a duplicate layer, set to overlay, then use a median noise filter - keeping those sharp lines but softening the color. Its a lot like what the sony's in camera NR does, but you have a lot more very precise control.

Just for example, open up a photo, select layer, then duplicate layer. Then select the second layer, select filters/other/high pass. Set the pixel radius to ~4, then set the layer to 'overlay'. Then select the first layer and select filter/noise/median. All this assuming you are using a CS version of Photoshop.

Thats a bit oversimplified, you'll have to make minor adjustments per each photo ala px radius, overlay opacity, soft light overlay, etc. I tried noise ninja but its just been way too much a pain in the neck and adds way too much time to the workflow. Unless your computer is a fairly souped up quad core, I would venture to say you'd prefer avoiding adding another photo program to adjust 12 megapixel images too.

[cougarjim]

Anbesol
What I thought was noise I believe is camera shake. I was comparing my photos today and noticed it was only on my panoramas. here is one that is bad.

[cougarjim]

Here is one of the 6 shots of the panorama. Hand held. When I posted it on this site I noticed the same noise around the tree tops. Before there was none. Is it because I re sized it?

[Anbesol]

Yes, resizing, saving and editing again destroys photos. To preserve the tones and original data, be sure to save your edits as PSD, instead of Jpegs, they take a lot more space, but are crucial to editing. Also - make a duplicate layer of the original and work off of that, that way your original is still a hidden layer in the data file, so you can always work with that too.

[opus]

hmm. If the noise reduction is the same either in camera or in software, I think I'd prefer to see it before deciding to get rid of it. If I let my camera decide, perhaps it will make a decision I would regret.

Mind you, I'm no expert and am only recently getting heavy into post-processing.

[cougarjim]

Yes, resizing, saving and editing again destroys photos. To preserve the tones and original data, be sure to save your edits as PSD, instead of Jpegs, they take a lot more space, but are crucial to editing. Also - make a duplicate layer of the original and work off of that, that way your original is still a hidden layer in the data file, so you can always work with that too.

Anbesol
I only have the option to save in Bitmap, Gif, Jpeg, Pcx, Portable, Targa and Tiff in my software. What software can you save in PSD?

Jim

[OldClicker]

Anbesol
I only have the option to save in Bitmap, Gif, Jpeg, Pcx, Portable, Targa and Tiff in my software. What software can you save in PSD?

Jim

tiff is a lossless format. psd is an Adobe proprietary format. – TF

[NoKnees]

The couple things I learned about noise on my a700....

I keep in camera noise reduction set to off... If it turns out bad enough, external software noise reduction programs seem to work better with the raw noise Sony creates, rather than trying to improve upon the already reduced Sony noise. The Sony NR tends to be a little blotchy sometimes.. Not as bad after r4.0 firmware update, but still there if you use the internal NR software... However, this is not usually an issue with prints 8x10 or smaller. Use the print test to see if you really have noise... Don't trust what you see on the screen....

If there is any risk of noise, or you are shooting at ISO 400 or higher, don't use advanced DRO+# settings... This will greatly increase the chance for noise in shadow areas, and even darker skies. DRO and DRO+ can be okay up to ISO 800 sometimes, but will get sketchy above that.

When in doubt, shoot cRAW+jpeg and you'll see just how much noise DRO can create in these situations... And then you can still correct it later..

[Ultra Magnus]

The couple things I learned about noise on my a700....

I keep in camera noise reduction set to off... If it turns out bad enough, external software noise reduction programs seem to work better with the raw noise Sony creates, rather than trying to improve upon the already reduced Sony noise. The Sony NR tends to be a little blotchy sometimes.. Not as bad after r4.0 firmware update, but still there if you use the internal NR software... However, this is not usually an issue with prints 8x10 or smaller. Use the print test to see if you really have noise... Don't trust what you see on the screen....

If there is any risk of noise, or you are shooting at ISO 400 or higher, don't use advanced DRO+# settings... This will greatly increase the chance for noise in shadow areas, and even darker skies. DRO and DRO+ can be okay up to ISO 800 sometimes, but will get sketchy above that.

When in doubt, shoot cRAW+jpeg and you'll see just how much noise DRO can create in these situations... And then you can still correct it later..

Some wise words- I personally have in camera nr turned off- and use lightroom to edit my photos. I haven't had a need (A700 V4) to use any 3rd party NR programs yet.

I no longer use DRO, and shoot cRAW. It's one more setting if you forget to change, you irreversably ruin a jpeg. Lifting shadows in RAW files is a lot more flexible, and way more undoable.

BM

[LightBright]

I guess im the few who shoot jpegs cause I like that it feels like shooting slide film in other words, I feel like to control the image; I have to do everything before I shoot it, fun!

Ya I use dro sometimes with good results. I agree with you NoKnees, after a certain iso, with a certain dro setting, the quality of the image is poor due to noise. I use dro when I have a nicely lit scene and a decent low iso to go along with it. I try not to pass dro +3, and when I do use it its mostly on DRO 1 or 2.

Ive heard the file format "cRaw" before, but my camera manual is kind of vague on it, what is cRaw??

[Ultra Magnus]

I guess im the few who shoot jpegs cause I like that it feels like shooting slide film in other words, I feel like to control the image; I have to do everything before I shoot it, fun!

Ya I use dro sometimes with good results. I agree with you NoKnees, after a certain iso, with a certain dro setting, the quality of the image is poor due to noise. I use dro when I have a nicely lit scene and a decent low iso to go along with it. I try not to pass dro +3, and when I do use it its mostly on DRO 1 or 2.

Ive heard the file format "cRaw" before, but my camera manual is kind of vague on it, what is cRaw??

cRAW is a compressed RAW file. It's technically lossy, but practically lossless... I've seen no evidence that the lossiness negatviely affects image quality. cRAW and jpeg.xfine are aboute the same file size, ~12mb.

w/o DRO if I want to run the iso around, I only ahve once setting to change, the iso. If I'm using DRO, then I must remember to change two settings if I need to run the iso up. I'll forget when I'm in a hurry (time critical opportunity), and lost the image. Or- I'll put the flash on and take a quick snap. Flash + DRO = wicked unpredictable results.

BM

[vikas8596]

Some digital cameras come built-in with a noise-reduction mode. This feature causes the camera to take photos in quick succession, guessing which pixels are noise and removing them. Since you want most digital photos to come out clear and free from grain, why not keep this feature running all of the time?

* In well-lit situations such as outdoors on bright, sunny days, noise reduction may not help at all. With plenty of sunlight your digital camera can take quicker exposures, usually resulting in less noise.

* Taking digital photos of objects where you need to record minute detail? It is theoretically possible that a digital camera's noise reduction feature could remove some of the photo's detail by thinking part of it was noise.

* Many digital photographers may trust noise-reduction features found in image editing software or add-ons packages rather than the camera's noise-reduction technology.

* Since your digital camera must manipulate photos before saving them, the amount of time between taking a photo and being able to take a second photo is increased. Thus, especially on bright days, noise reduction may actually be a detriment to your photography.